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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 10, 2013 8:47:22 GMT -5
Eh, those two teams are pretty close in quality, nothing really compelling to choose between them. Detroit's an easier travel/time zone situation, that may be the only difference. Besides, like I said earlier, other teams should want to avoid the Sox, not the other way around.
Before we leave the Rays totally in the rearview mirror, though ... everyone sort of assumes they'll trade Price this offseason because he's getting more money in arbitration, and he has two years left before he's a FA (the sweet spot for the Rays to trade pitchers, it seems). But unlike the last few years, they really don't have that many hot pitchers in the prospect pipeline, do they? I guess you could try to pencil Odorizzi into the rotation (lordy, what a trade that was for the Rays), but it seems like the Rays pipeline is getting a little thinner than it used to be, no? I'll admit to not paying a huge amount of attention to their system, so I may be underrating someone ...
Seems like unless they get some pitching for Price, they won't have enough depth in the rotation.
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Post by okin15 on Oct 10, 2013 8:52:35 GMT -5
I think it'd be more fun to play Oakland.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 10, 2013 8:58:06 GMT -5
My family is Tiger-heavy so I'm rooting for that matchup. Plus Bruins-Wings is kicking into rivalry mode this season.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 10, 2013 14:54:14 GMT -5
I think it'd be more fun to play Oakland. In case you're thinking of all the former Sox, Detroit has nearly as many: Iggy, Vic Martinez, Jose Alvarez, Anibal Sanchez.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 10, 2013 15:15:42 GMT -5
My family is Tiger-heavy so I'm rooting for that matchup. Plus Bruins-Wings is kicking into rivalry mode this season. Lakeland has turned into mini Detroit. It's almost sickening. It's like every closet Tiger fan has on orange the last 2 weeks all of a sudden, probably like in Boston with those same type of fans and at the Fort also where the Sox train and they are so close to the series. Not looking forward to any new banners hanging over Joker Marchant stadium (tigers spring home for 30 years) so they need to get caged.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 10, 2013 15:36:23 GMT -5
If Detroit gets through, we get to watch Jose Iglesias play defense.
Is there any other consideration that matters?
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 10, 2013 19:25:55 GMT -5
I think they trade Price because he is damaged goods. Why was he throwing almost exclusively fastballs against us? Is he in the early stages of needing a TJ?
I recognize that he came back strong in the 2nd half but he was not the same as last year by any stretch of the imagination. He has logged some heavy use hours carrying the ace load for that team for a while. It wears you down. It seems to have affected Moore some also and possibly Hellickson. In today's world if a starter logs a lot of high stress pitching innings several years in a row even the big Moose types eventually succumb to the stress. Sabathia, Peavy, Beckett, Lackey, Verlander...etc. Eventually most ace types become non aces before they are 30 even quite often.
Price's best years are probably behind him. They probably want to trade him high.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 10, 2013 22:08:08 GMT -5
I think they trade Price because he is damaged goods. Why was he throwing almost exclusively fastballs against us? Is he in the early stages of needing a TJ? I recognize that he came back strong in the 2nd half but he was not the same as last year by any stretch of the imagination. He has logged some heavy use hours carrying the ace load for that team for a while. It wears you down. It seems to have affected Moore some also and possibly Hellickson. In today's world if a starter logs a lot of high stress pitching innings several years in a row even the big Moose types eventually succumb to the stress. Sabathia, Peavy, Beckett, Lackey, Verlander...etc. Eventually most ace types become non aces before they are 30 even quite often. Price's best years are probably behind him. They probably want to trade him high. His usage wasn't particularly out of the ordinary at all. He varied his usage of his pitches, just as he has for a while. Below is a game-by-game since the start of 2012 (the graph got too unwieldy going back farther). He's thrown the curve less over the last month or so, but it's not the first time he's put it in his back pocket for a bit. Pitchers do that. That's what good pitchers do. He's not damaged goods at all, and no MLB team is going to think that. He's going to fetch a hefty sum, which is exactly why he's getting traded.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 10, 2013 22:31:00 GMT -5
Red Sox-Tigers it is.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 11, 2013 3:01:57 GMT -5
[Price's] usage wasn't particularly out of the ordinary at all. He varied his usage of his pitches, just as he has for a while. [Above] is a game-by-game since the start of 2012 (the graph got too unwieldy going back farther). He's thrown the curve less over the last month or so, but it's not the first time he's put it in his back pocket for a bit. Pitchers do that. That's what good pitchers do. He's not damaged goods at all, and no MLB team is going to think that. He's going to fetch a hefty sum, which is exactly why he's getting traded. Actually, at no other point in that graph does he have even four straight games where he threw the curve as rarely as he did in his last five. And it's not like his failure to throw it in his last game was part of a successful strategy. In fact, the sixth-to-last game on that graph, the last time he threw 10% curves, was the game he put up an 8 3 2 2 0 9 line against us. When you compare the pitch/fx data of the two games, you can make sense of everything but the failure to try the curve on a night when his bread and butter two-seamer was getting destroyed and his cutter was also being hit hard. I think it's a no-brainer that any MLB team trading for him is going to want to see scans of his elbow. I'm not saying that anything is there, but what we've seen is more consistent with at least some elbow pain than it is with none.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 11, 2013 6:34:36 GMT -5
Verlander's return to dominance is concerning ...
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Oct 11, 2013 7:57:35 GMT -5
Verlander's return to dominance is concerning ... Yeah, but he's only pitching once in the first 6 games. Let's end this before we see him a second time. This isn't unlike the 99 ALCS when we couldn't use Pedro until Gm 3. Lost the first two in the rotten apple, pounded Clemens behind Pedro in Gm 3. Lost the last two. I know Scherzer and Sanchez had great years. But, I'm not a scared of them.
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Post by bsout2 on Oct 11, 2013 9:26:59 GMT -5
Verlander's return to dominance is concerning ... The Red Sox won't score a bunch of runs against him. But what they can do is get him up to 100 pitches by 6th and get the Tigers bullpen for a couple innings.
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Post by nexus on Oct 11, 2013 10:01:03 GMT -5
Verlander's return to dominance is concerning ... Yeah, but he's only pitching once in the first 6 games. Let's end this before we see him a second time. This isn't unlike the 99 ALCS when we couldn't use Pedro until Gm 3. Lost the first two in the rotten apple, pounded Clemens behind Pedro in Gm 3. Lost the last two. I know Scherzer and Sanchez had great years. But, I'm not a scared of them. Then you're essentially saying you are not afraid of anyone. It really didn't get much better than Anibal Sanchez and Max Scherzer in 2013.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 11, 2013 13:12:11 GMT -5
Yeah, but he's only pitching once in the first 6 games. Let's end this before we see him a second time. This isn't unlike the 99 ALCS when we couldn't use Pedro until Gm 3. Lost the first two in the rotten apple, pounded Clemens behind Pedro in Gm 3. Lost the last two. I know Scherzer and Sanchez had great years. But, I'm not a scared of them. Then you're essentially saying you are not afraid of anyone. It really didn't get much better than Anibal Sanchez and Max Scherzer in 2013. And the Tigers' offense is nothing to sneeze at. The fact of the matter is that this series figures to be a very difficult one for the Sox. The Tigers have a lot of legitimate weapons to throw at the opposition. (Whether it actually turns out to be a difficult series ..... welllllllll ..... baseball is a funny game.)
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 11, 2013 13:47:13 GMT -5
Then you're essentially saying you are not afraid of anyone. It really didn't get much better than Anibal Sanchez and Max Scherzer in 2013. And the Tigers' offense is nothing to sneeze at. The fact of the matter is that this series figures to be a very difficult one for the Sox. The Tigers have a lot of legitimate weapons to throw at the opposition. (Whether it actually turns out to be a difficult series ..... welllllllll ..... baseball is a funny game.) Will kind of go with you here. The Tigers are pretty potent from 1-5 in the batting order and the rotation is very good. BP is a disaster, it's where Oakland held the advantage, as well as Oakland had the penchant for timely hitting from a weaker lineup overall that just played better as a team together. Detroit is a terrible defensive team, especially leaving out 2b, SS (if Iggy plays it), CF, and LF if Dirks gets the starts. Boston should fully exploit both Cabby and Fielder's lack of mobility to the max and bunt like crazy on them both. Was shocked melvin refused to allow Crisp to bunt who at least used to be one of the best in the game at it. Make Leyland pay for putting them both in the games and cost them some runs, possibly end up with 1 at DH by game 3 and Martinez out if they get burned enough by easy bunt hits.
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Post by ray88h66 on Oct 11, 2013 13:51:16 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of bunting but I think Johnsilver is right. We have several guys who can and should bunt against Det.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 11, 2013 14:03:45 GMT -5
I agree with him as well - I think Ells and Victorino in particular could do some damage that way. Maybe when guys are on base and a sac bunt is a possibility anyways.
As good as their bats have been, it would be interesting to try.
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