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Post by nebraska4sox on Oct 31, 2013 20:40:15 GMT -5
Do you guys think that Noe Ramirez can potentially find his way on the Red Sox roster by seasons end next year.
He has really turned the corner as a short reliever in the minors
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 31, 2013 20:46:11 GMT -5
Do you guys think that Noe Ramirez can potentially find his way on the Red Sox roster by seasons end next year. He has really turned the corner as a short reliever in the minors He's been mentioned, not sure what his ceiling is as he's not one of those guys who throws that hard. Matty Price and Luis Diaz are a couple of others of interesting note as well.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Oct 31, 2013 20:49:01 GMT -5
That is exactly why I didn't know. He has always been a location guy and he has impecable control so that will help. We have all seen what the results of a guy who has great location and great control who doesn't throw hard...ala KOJI
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 10:42:46 GMT -5
I have an irrational love for Noe Ramirez. He does everything well that you want out of a pitcher-- strikes guys out (career 8.8 K/9), doesn't walk them (career 2.0 BB/9), gets lots of ground balls (53.6% in Portland last year, 52% at Salem), and doesn't give up many home runs (career 0.9 HR/9). He is one of those guys whose fastball (low 90s, not a lot of movement) doesn't quite match up to the strikeout rate, but he does have a wipeout changeup that has good movement and deception and which can rack up the swings-and-misses.
I think he'll be in Pawtucket by mid-2014, and since he's Rule 5 eligible in December 2014, he has a decent chance of being a September call-up for the major league team if he's performed well and the MLB team needs a guy. He's a lock to be added to the 40-man next winter and should be in the mix for a full-time bullpen spot by 2015.
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 10:44:40 GMT -5
Also, this:
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,989
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Post by jimoh on Nov 1, 2013 11:34:00 GMT -5
Great! Like Bill Lee! Does he practice those, as Lee did?
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Post by Guidas on Nov 1, 2013 12:13:57 GMT -5
I have an irrational love for Noe Ramirez. He does everything well that you want out of a pitcher-- strikes guys out (career 8.8 K/9), doesn't walk them (career 2.0 BB/9), gets lots of ground balls (53.6% in Portland last year, 52% at Salem), and doesn't give up many home runs (career 0.9 HR/9). He is one of those guys whose fastball (low 90s, not a lot of movement) doesn't quite match up to the strikeout rate, but he does have a wipeout changeup that has good movement and deception and which can rack up the swings-and-misses. I think he'll be in Pawtucket by mid-2014, and since he's Rule 5 eligible in December 2014, he has a decent chance of being a September call-up for the major league team if he's performed well and the MLB team needs a guy. He's a lock to be added to the 40-man next winter and should be in the mix for a full-time bullpen spot by 2015. I know two college coaches pretty well. They were pretty high on Noe with similar comments when Sox drafted him. Seems to me at the very least like a good 7th inning guy and perhaps a set-up man down the road. If he can improve control ceiling be a 4th or 5th starter.
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Post by jmei on Nov 1, 2013 12:21:14 GMT -5
Given how quickly the front office switched him to a relief-only role (starting in his second professional season), it very much looks like he'll be a reliever-only prospect going forward.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Nov 1, 2013 12:58:32 GMT -5
He has been spot closing in the AFL, wouldn't be suprised if he was the closer in either Portland or Pawtucket
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 1, 2013 15:08:05 GMT -5
He has been spot closing in the AFL, wouldn't be suprised if he was the closer in either Portland or Pawtucket FYI, being a closer in the minors is kind of a bad thing, at least usually. It means that the player is fungible enough of a prospect that the club doesn't have him on a structured program, that the club doesn't mind putting lots of stress on his arm throwing things like back-to-backs, and/or that he's so old for his level that he's dominant but that he still isn't getting promoted. Go through our stats here on the site and look at the save leaders each year - rarely is there a prospect at the top of the list. Again, a rule of thumb rather than a hard-and-fast rule, but the point is that hoping a guy will be a minor league closer is the wrong thing to hope for.
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Post by nebraska4sox on Nov 1, 2013 16:42:09 GMT -5
In that case then I hope I he is not a closer. Thanks for that good rule of thumb Chris.
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Post by redsox4242 on Aug 4, 2014 15:42:12 GMT -5
Would really like to see what Noe has to offer, in his last 10 games he has posted a solid 1.65 era along with 5 saves. He is a multiple inning threat and i would like to see him get promoted as well. In 2013, Noe had a solid season with Salem and was promoted to Portland. Once again, he has proven himself this season 13 walks in 57.1 innings is tremendous in Portland. Really excited what the future holds for Noe!
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Post by moonstone2 on Aug 4, 2014 17:05:15 GMT -5
I have an irrational love for Noe Ramirez. He does everything well that you want out of a pitcher-- strikes guys out (career 8.8 K/9), doesn't walk them (career 2.0 BB/9), gets lots of ground balls (53.6% in Portland last year, 52% at Salem), and doesn't give up many home runs (career 0.9 HR/9). He is one of those guys whose fastball (low 90s, not a lot of movement) doesn't quite match up to the strikeout rate, but he does have a wipeout changeup that has good movement and deception and which can rack up the swings-and-misses. I think he'll be in Pawtucket by mid-2014, and since he's Rule 5 eligible in December 2014, he has a decent chance of being a September call-up for the major league team if he's performed well and the MLB team needs a guy. He's a lock to be added to the 40-man next winter and should be in the mix for a full-time bullpen spot by 2015. I would agree with almost everything said here but I don't see how a guy who. won't start is a lock for anything. In an organization with this many arms. Adam's analysis has him fighting Celestino for the final roster spot. Celestino has the big fastball and AAA experience and he's gone if you don't protect him wheras Ramirez might not be.
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Post by jmei on Aug 4, 2014 20:08:48 GMT -5
I would agree with almost everything said here but I don't see how a guy who. won't start is a lock for anything. In an organization with this many arms. Adam's analysis has him fighting Celestino for the final roster spot. Celestino has the big fastball and AAA experience and he's gone if you don't protect him wheras Ramirez might not be. I think consistent minor league performance counts for something, and Ramirez has performed better than Celestino at pretty much every stage of the ladder. Celestino has never had a sub-3.00 ERA season, while the last time Ramirez had an above-3.00 ERA season was his first year in Greenville in 2012. Celestino might have the flashier stuff, but Ramirez has better command and secondaries. Maybe Celestino has a higher ceiling, but I have no doubt in my mind that Ramirez is the better present player, and that's the guy I'd protect.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 4, 2014 20:36:51 GMT -5
Celestino has no movement in his fastball. It is straight as an arrow and mlb hitters will kill it even at 100 mph.
Rameriez has movement in all his pitchers and plus command. That is why we need to keep rameriez over cekestino.
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Post by moonstone2 on Aug 5, 2014 0:21:15 GMT -5
Celestino has no movement in his fastball. It is straight as an arrow and mlb hitters will kill it even at 100 mph. Rameriez has movement in all his pitchers and plus command. That is why we need to keep rameriez over cekestino. It might not even come down to that. Adam's analysis has them dumping Britton which I can't see them doing.given his stuff and left handed profile. Plus if they really want to give Owens and/or Marrero September callups that is potentially two more slots. I would personally agree that Ramirez is probably the better prospect.but the rest of baseball may not agree. Further Celestino appears to be getting more.chances as it's he not Ramirez who got.the major league camp invite in the spring and the promotion to AAA. Part of the issue too is that if you wanted to potentially keep both players, you would protect Celestino because a team would have to keep Ramirez in the majors all year. They also might not be interested in a player with a reliever ceiling.
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Post by ethanbein on Aug 5, 2014 6:19:33 GMT -5
Britton is out of options and has more walks than strikeouts as a reliever in AAA. I can't see how they keep him on the major league roster next year. He's gone.
Ramirez is the kind of guy that would definitely get scooped up in the Rule 5 draft - he's probably major league ready right now, at least for a bad team. There's always a chance he wouldn't stick, but most likely if he's not protected he'e gone. The Red Sox always need relievers with options (which was a problem earlier this year) so I really think he gets protected given that he's mostly a finished product right now.
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Post by kungfuizzy on Aug 5, 2014 6:53:08 GMT -5
I have an irrational love for Noe Ramirez. He does everything well that you want out of a pitcher-- strikes guys out (career 8.8 K/9), doesn't walk them (career 2.0 BB/9), gets lots of ground balls (53.6% in Portland last year, 52% at Salem), and doesn't give up many home runs (career 0.9 HR/9). He is one of those guys whose fastball (low 90s, not a lot of movement) doesn't quite match up to the strikeout rate, but he does have a wipeout changeup that has good movement and deception and which can rack up the swings-and-misses. I think he'll be in Pawtucket by mid-2014, and since he's Rule 5 eligible in December 2014, he has a decent chance of being a September call-up for the major league team if he's performed well and the MLB team needs a guy. He's a lock to be added to the 40-man next winter and should be in the mix for a full-time bullpen spot by 2015. I pretty much feel the same way as you. Britton has fallen behind him on the organizational depth chart. If Layne wasn't in the system I would bet that Noe would be on the Sox today. They need to weigh if he's an upgrade over Breslow at 4 million for 2015. He's going to get the call in September with Swihart and Owens IMHO. Might as well since he's almost a lock to be added to the 40 man.
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Post by jmei on Aug 5, 2014 7:25:14 GMT -5
I would personally agree that Ramirez is probably the better prospect.but the rest of baseball may not agree. Further Celestino appears to be getting more.chances as it's he not Ramirez who got.the major league camp invite in the spring and the promotion to AAA. Part of the issue too is that if you wanted to potentially keep both players, you would protect Celestino because a team would have to keep Ramirez in the majors all year. They also might not be interested in a player with a reliever ceiling. The reason Celestino got a camp invite is because he re-signed as a minor league free agent, and I imagine that was the bone they threw him to entice him to re-sign. Similarly, the fact that they promoted him before Ramirez may have just been because they needed to evaluate him more urgently, seeing as he'll be a minor league free agent again this year. I think both players pretty clearly have reliever ceilings (neither has started since 2012), so that doesn't factor into it too much. You're right that Celestino is probably gone if he's not added-- as I've been saying, he's a minor league free agent, and he might choose to go the Michael Olmsted route and sign with a team that has a less crowded bullpen picture. But I don't think he's any great loss, though his year has admittedly been very impressive.
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Post by moonstone2 on Aug 5, 2014 7:54:15 GMT -5
Britton is out of options and has more walks than strikeouts as a reliever in AAA. I can't see how they keep him on the major league roster next year. He's gone. Ramirez is the kind of guy that would definitely get scooped up in the Rule 5 draft - he's probably major league ready right now, at least for a bad team. There's always a chance he wouldn't stick, but most likely if he's not protected he'e gone. The Red Sox always need relievers with options (which was a problem earlier this year) so I really think he gets protected given that he's mostly a finished product right now. I don't think a team takes him in rule five. Bad teams use rule five to get lottery tickets. Players that could be major league regulars, rotation starters, or.closers. Ramirez may have a low floor, but at best he's a seventh inning guy. He doesn't really help a team that is going to be bad anyways. He'd have more value to a good team that might win in 2015. But a lot of those teams are good because they already have strong bullpens. If they do have openings, they are going to want players that have major league or at least AAA experience to minimize their risk. Look at the profile of players who get taken. If a minor league reliever gets taken it's usually a guy with closer stuff like Josh Fields. The Red Sox didn't protect Fields who had a higher upside, more experience. The Sox also had less of a roster crunch at the time. With Britton you can't just look at.the stat line. He's a premium lefty arm and the Sox don't have a lot of those. Doesn't mean he will make the team, but they will bring him to spring training.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 5, 2014 16:14:55 GMT -5
I really like Ramirez. I just have this feeling that Ramirez is not in Boston's long term plans. Reminds me of a Brandon Moss and Josh Redick, in that they put up very good minor league numbers, but Boston doesn't think their good enough to play in Boston. No way he's a lock for 40 man roster. Like another poster pointed out, we have so much good young pitching that there is going to be number crunches for years to come.
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