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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 7, 2014 10:15:21 GMT -5
Participants: Henry Owens Dalier Hinojosa Matt Barnes Anthony Ranaudo Noe Ramirez Christian Vazquez Blake Swihart Travis Shaw Deven Marrero Garin Cecchini That's a mighty solid group!! link |
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jan 7, 2014 11:04:37 GMT -5
Happy to see Shaw, Marrero, and Noe included, but where is Mookie?
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Post by Matt Huegel on Jan 7, 2014 11:14:39 GMT -5
It's meant for players that the team feels have a good chance to play on the major league team this season. They don't seem to think that's a possibility for Mookie, which makes sense. Just like Barnes wasn't there last year despite the fact that he was ticketed to begin the year in Portland.
Edit: Also, those are the "known participants" from a source of Speier's, so there could always be changes.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 7, 2014 11:30:03 GMT -5
Noe Ramirez sounds like he's going to be a solid bullpen arm in the majors and he's ranked 34th. Is his stuff not good enough to match his K/BB rates?
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Post by klostrophobic on Jan 7, 2014 14:48:19 GMT -5
Relief prospects are just generally underrated due to lots of factors. Like how relief pitching just falls out of the sky and either lands in your lap or splatters all over the ground and makes a horrible mess.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 7, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5
Relief prospects are just generally underrated due to lots of factors. Like how relief pitching just falls out of the sky and either lands in your lap or splatters all over the ground and makes a horrible mess. It's strange isn't it? Especially with how undeniably important bullpens are. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 7, 2014 23:02:20 GMT -5
jimed14, the point is that his ceiling is probably a good middle relief pitcher. He doesn't have closer stuff and probably won't even be a setup guy. With that low of a ceiling, in this system, that's just not a top 20 prospect. That said, once you get outside of the top 20, rankings become an exercise in splitting hairs in a way you'd probably do differently an hour later.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 7, 2014 23:08:24 GMT -5
Relief prospects are just generally underrated due to lots of factors. Like how relief pitching just falls out of the sky and either lands in your lap or splatters all over the ground and makes a horrible mess. It's strange isn't it? Especially with how undeniably important bullpens are.Sure, but most of your better relievers are guys who came up as starters in the minors. Pure relief prospects have a pretty bad track record, frankly. |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 8, 2014 7:53:32 GMT -5
jimed14, the point is that his ceiling is probably a good middle relief pitcher. He doesn't have closer stuff and probably won't even be a setup guy. With that low of a ceiling, in this system, that's just not a top 20 prospect. That said, once you get outside of the top 20, rankings become an exercise in splitting hairs in a way you'd probably do differently an hour later. That answers my question. I didn't know anything about him except looking at his K and BB rates, which are pretty nice. Thanks. |
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Post by patrmac04 on Jan 8, 2014 10:19:04 GMT -5
jimed14, the point is that his ceiling is probably a good middle relief pitcher. He doesn't have closer stuff and probably won't even be a setup guy. With that low of a ceiling, in this system, that's just not a top 20 prospect. That said, once you get outside of the top 20, rankings become an exercise in splitting hairs in a way you'd probably do differently an hour later. With the very slid WHIP that Noe has had since college and carried through the minors, I think he is a better prospect than Alex Wilson right now. I know you said it was splitting hairs in the higher picks, but to me his position should be switched with Wilson as I don't see him sticking with the Sox. Wilson's career WHIP is worrisome to say the least. The other prospects 21-30 are very solid though... The other person in the higher 20+ rankings who I am very curious about is Dalier Hinojosa. He has a track record and is 27 years old, but his WHIP isn't making me too excited as a starter in Cuba. What level is the league that he played in Cuba equated to... A, AA, AAA? Is his ranking so low an indication of the system, an indication that he might not stick as a starter or just uncertainty about him coming into US baseball? Are there concerns that he walks too many pitches or have reports from scouts been mixed, non existent or other? To me he should be ranked right behind Devers to begin with as he is what Callahan, Mercedes, Buttrey and Diaz are looking to become while Hinojosa is already there. |
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Post by patrmac04 on Jan 8, 2014 10:24:57 GMT -5
Participants: Henry Owens Dalier Hinojosa Matt Barnes Anthony Ranaudo Noe Ramirez Christian Vazquez Blake Swihart Travis Shaw Deven Marrero Garin Cecchini That's a mighty solid group!! linkIt is good to see such a strong showing in the rookie program. I see a couple of potential all stars in there with a handful of MLB regulars. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 8, 2014 10:29:30 GMT -5
Hinojosa has little to no useful track record so it's hard to rank him.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 8, 2014 10:39:42 GMT -5
Just watching Wilson last year in the majors, I don't think he has the stuff, the control or command to be a MLB pitcher. Not on a team I want to watch anyway.
I don't know how I can be missing a possible upside but I guess I could be.
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Post by jmei on Jan 8, 2014 11:44:04 GMT -5
Wilson had two problems: his fastball never played up in the pen as much as we projected it would and his command as a whole never took the step forward it needed to. He's not a ground-ball guy, so he needs to strike guys out and not walk them, neither of which he has been able to do consistently of late. He does probably have a little upside left since he's flashed better stuff in the past, but he's 27 already, so he's probably not much more than a back-end arm.
I love me some Noe Ramirez, but he's exactly the type of guy (older for his level, great command but middling stuff) where just looking at his stats in the low minors can be very deceiving. The real challenge for him is whether he can continue to miss bats at higher levels. He's performed very well so far (he does everything you want in a pitcher-- strikes guys out, doesn't walk them, and gets ground balls), but he's got a lower ceiling and is far from a lock to get extended MLB playing time.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 9, 2014 10:48:45 GMT -5
The most encouraging thing I've read about Ramirez is how fantastic the changeup is, and how well he uses it. That, along with the control, may just get him to the majors.
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Post by juanpena on Jan 9, 2014 12:48:06 GMT -5
Just watching Wilson last year in the majors, I don't think he has the stuff, the control or command to be a MLB pitcher. Not on a team I want to watch anyway. I don't know how I can be missing a possible upside but I guess I could be. I think a good comp for Wilson is Bryce Florie. He is OK to have as the 12th man on a 12-man staff. Pitch him in low leverage situations to save better pitchers, and chances are he'll be OK, but if you get a better option for last spot in the bullpen, he can go. |
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 9, 2014 18:30:39 GMT -5
You know I wouldn't put nothing past Mookie.
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Post by dewey1972 on Jan 13, 2014 21:30:04 GMT -5
Does anyone know how many other organizations do something similar? It seems like a no-brainer, especially given that it can't cost much at all.
Also, anyone know what year the Sox started doing it?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 14, 2014 3:27:55 GMT -5
jimed14, the point is that his ceiling is probably a good middle relief pitcher. He doesn't have closer stuff and probably won't even be a setup guy. With that low of a ceiling, in this system, that's just not a top 20 prospect. That said, once you get outside of the top 20, rankings become an exercise in splitting hairs in a way you'd probably do differently an hour later. Somewhat (or all) anecdotal evidence, I noticed that every single article that I read on him, starting with the pre-draft college coaches opinion, mentions his change up in a manner that says "unhittable". |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 14, 2014 3:48:39 GMT -5
You know I wouldn't put nothing past Mookie. We should rename it to "The Red Sox Mookie Development Program". |
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2014 9:00:56 GMT -5
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Post by godot on Jan 14, 2014 9:08:56 GMT -5
Not to belittle the development aspect of the program, but don't ya think that it may be primarily a PR ruse to keep the Sox alive and before your eyes during the off season.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2014 9:24:24 GMT -5
Not to belittle the development aspect of the program, but don't ya think that it may be primarily a PR ruse to keep the Sox alive and before your eyes during the off season. I imagine getting called up to the majors for the first time is pretty overwhelming. It probably does some good for these kids to be more familiar. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 14, 2014 9:46:17 GMT -5
Not to belittle the development aspect of the program, but don't ya think that it may be primarily a PR ruse to keep the Sox alive and before your eyes during the off season. I don't think that at all. Getting called up to the majors is overwhelming enough but being as these are the Red Sox, it can be so overwhelming that some wouldn't be able to cope. This eases them into it. I think every team has a somewhat similar program and the mainstream major league fans know little about the farms anyways. |
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Post by joshv02 on Jan 14, 2014 9:54:11 GMT -5
Does anyone know how many other organizations do something similar? It seems like a no-brainer, especially given that it can't cost much at all. Also, anyone know what year the Sox started doing it? This was a former Cleveland Indians program that the Red Sox (and, I believe, other teams - e.g., the Cubs started last year, I believe) and it started in Boston in roughly pre-2007 (?) when Ferrell came over from the Indians. |
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