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5/16-5/18 Red Sox vs. Tigers Series Thread
Guidas
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Post by Guidas on May 19, 2014 13:20:12 GMT -5
One of the Red Sox problems is that their second best outfielder is playing in Pawtucket. I'm don't necessarily agree that Nava is our 2nd best outfielder but anyway, what's most annoying is that they are not using the stint in the minors productively. He should be learning how to hit left-handed exclusively.... And maybe Victorino could use his MLB stint to go back to switch hitting, because his RH ABs vs. RH pitchers are awful, esp compared to his past - and even recent 2013 - LH performance. And if he's still too injured to be batting left handed because his back leg collapses upon weight transfer then they better find a Right Fielder ASAP as his legs won't hold up out there, either.
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2014 13:25:34 GMT -5
I was also talking about him being a 4th OF so we didn't have to rely on Nava (now Sizemore) vs. LHP in RF when Victorino or JBJ were out. And that he'd be good insurance for JBJ not being able to hit. I mean, going into the year we had Carp, Nava, Gomes, JBJ, Victorino and signed Sizemore over Rajai. Sizemore was a flyer who had a great spring and only costed 750K. Rajai would have probably demanded more than 2.5mil to have less of an opportunity to play than what he's getting right now in Detroit. I agree he would have been better than Sizemore, but I can understand the reason not to go that route. He's a crappy player outperforming. Before this season started, his main attraction was his speed, but you can get Berry types any time you want. Granted, he's much better than him, just illustrating that speed isn't that hard to find. Personally, I would have gone with Cruz and had JBJ start the year at AAA I view Davis as almost as valuable as Gomes offensively if you count his baserunning with the ability to play any outfield position. We are severely lacking that CF/RF backup. I was all for breaking up the Gomes/Carp/Nava dream team in LF. Sizemore is just our 4th crappy LFer.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on May 19, 2014 13:37:14 GMT -5
But all those guys are gone to other teams, and here we are.
Most frustrating thing is the div is completely winnable right now and we are wasting a year of Ortiz, Lester, Pedroia, Lackey, Napoli and Koji for some long term plan that may or may not work out. There are some fixes available now that could stabilize a few areas (sign Drew, cut Carp, bring back Nava and have him only face righties) that could tide the team until closer to the trading deadline and a big move or two could be made. Or they can do what some teams have done in the recent past and make the big move in May/Early June with a slight prospect overpay for the right player(s).
Or we can wait a week. By then Mookie should be ready to take over CF.
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Post by nexus on May 19, 2014 13:45:17 GMT -5
True, but we're also talking about him having a sudden surge against RHP when for his career he's been utterly useless against them. I was also talking about him being a 4th OF so we didn't have to rely on Nava (now Sizemore) vs. LHP in RF when Victorino or JBJ were out. And that he'd be good insurance for JBJ not being able to hit. Spending $10M guaranteed on a guy coming off 66, 84, and 88 wRC+ seasons is a lousy insurance policy. And that's without even considering the fact the team already had a 4th OFer capable of hitting LH pitching.
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Post by godot on May 19, 2014 13:47:09 GMT -5
Will getting one player really make a difference( and getting two could gut their system)? Some suggest that Dustin and Napoli hampered by hand injuries. Who the hell is Peavy these days; same with Clay. Felix is another story. The Sizemore gamble, will it pay off, and then here is Bradley's bat. X-Man will be ok hit-wise, but his fielding. Some also suggest a leg injury may be at work because he was making plays in ST. How long will Shane stay healthy? Seems that they have to solve these problems first, if they are solvable. Can't see any help from the minors. If not, why bother with a trade? I do not know.
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2014 13:50:46 GMT -5
I was also talking about him being a 4th OF so we didn't have to rely on Nava (now Sizemore) vs. LHP in RF when Victorino or JBJ were out. And that he'd be good insurance for JBJ not being able to hit. Spending $10M guaranteed on a guy coming off 66, 84, and 88 wRC+ seasons is a lousy insurance policy. And that's without even considering the fact the team already had a 4th OFer capable of hitting LH pitching. 111 vs. LHP. And we don't have a 4th OF who can play CF or RF. $10 million guaranteed for 2 years, BFD.
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2014 13:52:58 GMT -5
Will getting one player really make a difference( and getting two could gut their system)? Some suggest that Dustin and Napoli hampered by hand injuries. Who the hell is Peavy these days; same with Clay. Felix is another story. The Sizemore gamble, will it pay off, and then here is Bradley's bat. X-Man will be ok hit-wise, but his fielding. Some also suggest a leg injury may be at work because he was making plays in ST. How long will Shane stay healthy? Seems that they have to solve these problems first, if they are solvable. Can't see any help from the minors. If not, why bother with a trade? I do not know. Obviously there are a lot of issues. I think a lot of them work themselves out. The outfield situation was pretty easy to predict.
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Guidas
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Post by Guidas on May 19, 2014 15:56:08 GMT -5
Ben says "Keep calm. Nothing to see here. Move along…" I'm paraphrasing just a bit….
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Post by godot on May 19, 2014 16:10:31 GMT -5
Ben says "Keep calm. Nothing to see here. Move along…" I'm paraphrasing just a bit…. Yeah, another translation, John Henry is saying stay the course. In the long run we are all dead.
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2014 16:57:42 GMT -5
Another translation, John Henry realizes that signing Beckett and Crawford didn't win championships.
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Post by semperfisox on May 19, 2014 17:00:12 GMT -5
I want Crawford to have another plate appearance at Fenway so bad. The crowd reaction would be priceless.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 19, 2014 17:04:03 GMT -5
Carlos Beltran sucks, old, and hurt. Choo and Ellsbury got absurd contracts and are for the type of people who do not have the long-term in mind. I think everyone understands that in a win-now situation, these are the players you want, but not towards the back-end. I don't believe anyone saw the production that Rajai Davis is providing coming. The only guy I feel the Red Sox truly lost out on was Nelson Cruz who has 12 HR and an OPS of .874. For 1yr/8mil and a draft pick, that would have been worth the production he's providing right now. I believe the O's will offer him arb and he will decline, thus replacing the pick they lost (yes, I know he was offered arb and lost money as a result when he turned it down. He was also coming off a 50-game suspension for PED use). The Red Sox are built around a core of David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, John Lackey, John Lester, Mike Napoli and Shane Victorino. How is that not a win-now situation? No one on that list will ever be a better player than they are today. If the Red Sox want to build for the future, trade some of those guys. Otherwise add reinforcements. Right now they're trying to have it both ways and when you do that you frequently end up having it neither.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 19, 2014 18:19:44 GMT -5
Carlos Beltran sucks, old, and hurt. Choo and Ellsbury got absurd contracts and are for the type of people who do not have the long-term in mind. I think everyone understands that in a win-now situation, these are the players you want, but not towards the back-end. I don't believe anyone saw the production that Rajai Davis is providing coming. The only guy I feel the Red Sox truly lost out on was Nelson Cruz who has 12 HR and an OPS of .874. For 1yr/8mil and a draft pick, that would have been worth the production he's providing right now. I believe the O's will offer him arb and he will decline, thus replacing the pick they lost (yes, I know he was offered arb and lost money as a result when he turned it down. He was also coming off a 50-game suspension for PED use). The Red Sox are built around a core of David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, John Lackey, John Lester, Mike Napoli and Shane Victorino. How is that not a win-now situation? No one on that list will ever be a better player than they are today. If the Red Sox want to build for the future, trade some of those guys. Otherwise add reinforcements. Right now they're trying to have it both ways and when you do that you frequently end up having it neither. Why is trying to be competitive now and also building for long-term success such a bad thing? Last years team was built to be competitive while also not sacrificing the future. That worked out pretty well. We hear it over and over, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. This team has an excellent chance to make the playoffs as they are currently constructed and at that point, anything can happen. They don't need to do anything that compromises the future. They also don't need to sell off all their veterans and give up. Playing the middle ground is exactly the right approach. Compete - hope for the best come the playoffs - preserve long term assets.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 19, 2014 18:58:24 GMT -5
3 games back.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 19, 2014 20:46:21 GMT -5
Or two in front - of last place where the Sox could just as well wind up. I don't think that's the case, but if these issues don't iron themselves out for the most part, the Sox could find there way back to the bottom again instead of first place. Fact is they need to play a lot better than they have played.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 19, 2014 22:27:49 GMT -5
Fact is they need to play a lot better than they have played. Why? This has all the makings of a bridge year, the Red Sox won the World Series with a very good team, but one that was a bit based on career years by a lot of dudes. Plus, this team is getting younger and not to be sappy but growing pains are to be expected.
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2014 22:31:31 GMT -5
I think they regress to a 88 win team as it stands.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 19, 2014 22:49:30 GMT -5
The Red Sox are built around a core of David Ortiz, Dustin Pedroia, John Lackey, John Lester, Mike Napoli and Shane Victorino. How is that not a win-now situation? No one on that list will ever be a better player than they are today. If the Red Sox want to build for the future, trade some of those guys. Otherwise add reinforcements. Right now they're trying to have it both ways and when you do that you frequently end up having it neither. Why is trying to be competitive now and also building for long-term success such a bad thing? Last years team was built to be competitive while also not sacrificing the future. That worked out pretty well. We hear it over and over, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. This team has an excellent chance to make the playoffs as they are currently constructed and at that point, anything can happen. They don't need to do anything that compromises the future. They also don't need to sell off all their veterans and give up. Playing the middle ground is exactly the right approach. Compete - hope for the best come the playoffs - preserve long term assets. Because the more you divide your efforts the less likely you are to achieve either. And yes, like you said, they managed to do both effectively last year. The difference was that last year they were able to improve the team significantly without sacrificing the future. This year they made the team worse without really adding anything to the future that they wouldn't have had anyway.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 19, 2014 23:42:10 GMT -5
Fact is they need to play a lot better than they have played. Why? This has all the makings of a bridge year, the Red Sox won the World Series with a very good team, but one that was a bit based on career years by a lot of dudes. Plus, this team is getting younger and not to be sappy but growing pains are to be expected. I'm not talking about the Sox winning 97 games and repeating as Champs. I'd merely like to see them seize a weak division, get to the playoffs and see what happens. But if it is indeed a bridge year as you say and as I suspect, I'm more than fine with that, too. They got a gift last year. Can't complain if that gift doesn't give every year, especially if this year help leads to a team that can be ultra-competitive during the second half of the decade.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 20, 2014 6:50:45 GMT -5
I think they regress to a 88 win team as it stands. If that's the case, at a minimum, they'll be in the wild card chase until the very last week. That would be fine with me.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 20, 2014 6:53:31 GMT -5
Why is trying to be competitive now and also building for long-term success such a bad thing? Last years team was built to be competitive while also not sacrificing the future. That worked out pretty well. We hear it over and over, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. This team has an excellent chance to make the playoffs as they are currently constructed and at that point, anything can happen. They don't need to do anything that compromises the future. They also don't need to sell off all their veterans and give up. Playing the middle ground is exactly the right approach. Compete - hope for the best come the playoffs - preserve long term assets. Because the more you divide your efforts the less likely you are to achieve either. And yes, like you said, they managed to do both effectively last year. The difference was that last year they were able to improve the team significantly without sacrificing the future. This year they made the team worse without really adding anything to the future that they wouldn't have had anyway. Wrong. They added valuable experience to the people they are depending on to carry them forward. Those people may not pan out....but they are getting the necessary major league experience to see if the are big league regulars.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 20, 2014 7:32:15 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 20, 2014 10:15:34 GMT -5
Because the more you divide your efforts the less likely you are to achieve either. And yes, like you said, they managed to do both effectively last year. The difference was that last year they were able to improve the team significantly without sacrificing the future. This year they made the team worse without really adding anything to the future that they wouldn't have had anyway. Wrong. They added valuable experience to the people they are depending on to carry them forward. Those people may not pan out....but they are getting the necessary major league experience to see if the are big league regulars. Again, you could have given those guys time and still improved the team. Jackie Bradley, fine, I get it. Gomes/Carp/Sizemore? That's a bad joke.
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Post by jmei on May 20, 2014 13:44:15 GMT -5
Alex Speier's latest article is a retrospective on the offseason's decisions. Most of the stuff is rehashing old news, but there are some new details on the front office's (non-)pursuit of Saltalamacchia: Maybe the lower back concerns were serious enough to make pursuing Saltalamacchia an undesirable option. But if the injury risk was manageable and Saltalamacchia was open to just two guaranteed years at a reasonable (read: in the $7-9m range) cost and the Red Sox decided to pass in favor of 1/$8.25 for Pierzynski, then that was just a bad decision by the front office.
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Post by jimed14 on May 20, 2014 13:49:18 GMT -5
Salty is coming back to earth. The people who are all of a sudden mad that we didn't sign him even after pretty much no one advocated it in the offseason will have less to complain about soon. His wRC+ is 58 in May. You can't hit .323 on ground balls for long as a catcher who is a dead pull hitter hitting into shifts.
Also from that article:
Now you know my real name - Alex Speier. (kidding! I didn't have to use hindsight)
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