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Post by nattyburns2 on May 28, 2014 8:59:10 GMT -5
It looked likely that last week after Gunkels outing consisting of 4 innings of no hit ball, 6 K's and a BB, that he would be promoted as a reliever to Salem. However, with him getting his second start tonight, it looks as if Boston is using him what he was drafted for, a starting pitcher. Leading West Chester University to win the DII college WorldSeries, his junior year, gunkel is comfortable in the starting role. Offering 155 strike outs, 6 walks, a 21-7 record with 20 compete games and an average era of 2.84 all over the span or three years. Gunkel had adapted to the reliever role, having the lowest era in both Greenville and Salem with guys with 24 innings or less pitched this season. Having thrown in only 9 games, Gunkel was selected for the NYPL all star game last summer. As an 18 round draft pick, it's evident Joe Gunkel was a steal.
amfox1 edit: changed thread title
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Post by mgoetze on May 28, 2014 9:43:14 GMT -5
His walk and strikeout rates were already very good in college but it seems they have only improved coming to the pros. Certainly someone to keep an eye on, though I can't help wondering whether a 90-92 fastball (assuming the SoxProspects scouting report is accurate) will continue to translate to higher levels even with excellent command.
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Post by okin15 on May 28, 2014 10:00:11 GMT -5
If Gunkel is going to pitch in the majors, it is essential that he get a chance to start now while he's in the low minors. Most of the best relievers in the majors come through the lower levels as starters. Given that, this promotion to SP is (in my mind) a better one than a promotion to Salem.
Does that mean I think it's likely that he will be a successful major league pitcher? No. But there's a much better chance now that he'll be forced to pitch multiple times through the order and mix in a third pitch.
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Post by nattyburns2 on May 28, 2014 10:54:09 GMT -5
The guy has excellent promise and work ethic. I agree that the SP promotion is a better promotion than Salem. He is only going to get stronger, and with the help of Pedro Martinez also, he should be a contender to bounce from triple a to the majors.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 28, 2014 12:28:04 GMT -5
Yeah, he's interesting (and I was surprised that he's not on the site's top 60 - I bet that changes by Friday), but he's a 22 year old in single A ball. Let's see how develops and adjusts as he gets promoted. He definitely needs to see some time in A+ this year.
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Post by soxfanatic on May 28, 2014 12:40:42 GMT -5
Yeah, he's interesting ( and I was surprised that he's not on the site's top 60 - I bet that changes by Friday), but he's a 22 year old in single A ball. Let's see how develops and adjusts as he gets promoted. He definitely needs to see some time in A+ this year. He's ranked 38th... |
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Post by iakovos11 on May 28, 2014 12:43:53 GMT -5
Thanks. I could have sworn I saw him ranked before. I shouldn't post while on webinars
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 28, 2014 13:12:38 GMT -5
Yeah, he's interesting (and I was surprised that he's not on the site's top 60 - I bet that changes by Friday), but he's a 22 year old in single A ball. Let's see how develops and adjusts as he gets promoted. He definitely needs to see some time in A+ this year. A good time for me to go back to an old obsession of mine: the physiology of pitching and hitting are different, so the age advancement scale doesn't work the same way. So the fact that he's 22 years old in A ball doesn't really mean as much as it would for a hitter, imo. Personally, for a guy like Gunkel (coming from a smaller program), I look at him in terms of the speed of his improvement and advancement through the system more than pure age. Sure, the maturity of being older helps, so it's not the same as a high school kid who's 3 years younger, but it's not quite the near-automatic discounting I do for hitters. Gunkel's intriguing to me, I considered him for the prediction game question about the guy who would rise the most slots in the rankings ... but there's a long way to go, for sure. |
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Post by iakovos11 on May 28, 2014 14:17:22 GMT -5
Brian -
I am not really discounting him, I find him quite intriguing. But the poster seems to have him penciled into the Boston rotation in a few years.
Also, not sure where you get the idea that age advancement is different for pitchers. I get that they needed him to start in Greenville, especially coming from a small school. But he's still guy with 3-4 years college experience pitching against a lot of kids 1-2 years removed from high school (and granted a lot of org filler guys that re older, but that doesn't impress me either). I just think he needs to get some time in Salem this year. It's not like he's a 20-yr old out of high school doing this well. He's a long way off. Let's see how he does. He's a great guy to follow. I'm definitely cheering for the guy. I've been a big Keith Couch fan - I love watching the unheralded prospects develop into potential big leaguers.
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Post by soxfanatic on May 28, 2014 14:19:02 GMT -5
It looked likely that last week after Gunkels outing consisting of 4 innings of no hit ball, 6 K's and a BB, that he would be promoted as a reliever to Salem. However, with him getting his second start tonight, it looks as if Boston is using him what he was drafted for, a starting pitcher. Leading West Chester University to win the DII college WorldSeries, his junior year, gunkel is comfortable in the starting role. Offering 155 strike outs, 6 walks, a 21-7 record with 20 compete games and an average era of 2.84 all over the span or three years. Gunkel had adapted to the reliever role, having the lowest era in both Greenville and Salem with guys with 24 innings or less pitched this season. Having thrown in only 9 games, Gunkel was selected for the NYPL all star game last summer. As an 18 round draft pick, it's evident Joe Gunkel was a steal. amfox1 edit: changed thread title I think it's fair to talk about players being a steal when they've contributed on the Major League level. |
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 28, 2014 14:46:40 GMT -5
Brian - I am not really discounting him, I find him quite intriguing. But the poster seems to have him penciled into the Boston rotation in a few years. Also, not sure where you get the idea that age advancement is different for pitchers. I get that they needed him to start in Greenville, especially coming from a small school. But he's still guy with 3-4 years college experience pitching against a lot of kids 1-2 years removed from high school (and granted a lot of org filler guys that re older, but that doesn't impress me either). I just think he needs to get some time in Salem this year. It's not like he's a 20-yr old out of high school doing this well. He's a long way off. Let's see how he does. He's a great guy to follow. I'm definitely cheering for the guy. I've been a big Keith Couch fan - I love watching the unheralded prospects develop into potential big leaguers. Fair enough ... I agree with you on the basics on Gunkel. But the point about pitchers is this: judging hitters based on age is partially because of the natural physical maturation that happens. So a 22 year-old from a small college is just flat out stronger than a 19 year-old fresh out of high school. This is a lot more important in hitting than it is in pitching ... so you just can't translate the age-advancement thought process between one and another. I'm not saying that being 22 years-old is meaningless in evaluating Gunkel, just that it doesn't have quite the same impact on my thinking as it does when I'm thinking of a hitter. Honestly, though, I've never seen anyone really study this ... I've generally just seen people automatically translate hitters to pitchers, and I think that's lazy thinking. But, I don't have any proof that it's different, so I'm fully aware that I could be full of ****, too. |
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Post by tonyc on May 28, 2014 15:20:48 GMT -5
Brian,
Without having studied it either, intuitively I would agree with you for the following reason. I believe there is inherently more variability in pitchers performance than hitters. On the downside their performance is more sensitive and vulnerable to injuries, and on the upside they are more able to make changes- add a cutter, learn a splitter, wheras a hitter cannot do too much about their batspeed and can attempt to change their approach, but will usually do so within some limits.
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Post by mgoetze on May 28, 2014 16:15:55 GMT -5
But the point about pitchers is this: judging hitters based on age is partially because of the natural physical maturation that happens. So a 22 year-old from a small college is just flat out stronger than a 19 year-old fresh out of high school. This is a lot more important in hitting than it is in pitching ... Well, it's pretty important in pitching too, in that fastball velocity is likely to peak around age 22 and then it's all downhill from there. |
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Post by ramireja on Jun 15, 2014 8:18:42 GMT -5
bumping this thread because since being moved into a starter's role, Gunkel has only gotten stronger. In 5 starts he has pitched 27 1/3 innings with 29 k's to 6 bb's, with opponents OPS at .414 and a WHIP of 0.66. On top of that, he outpitched a top prospect in Giolito yesterday (thanks to Asuaje's home run).
Everything said above still applies. He is a 22 year old pitching in low-A, but the early results are encouraging. Let's give him another handful of starts but he is dominating the league much in the way that Barnes and Ranaudo did before moving up to high-A. Looking forward to following his progress.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 15, 2014 10:07:55 GMT -5
Let's not forget that this is his first full season. First full season, the most important thing is getting used to the five day rotation. Adjusting from a college schedule to a pro schedule is not automatic. He hasn't had enough starts yet to see how he will handle that aspect.
That doesn't change the results though, he's off to a flying start.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 15, 2014 10:15:59 GMT -5
Let's not forget that this is his first full season. First full season, the most important thing is getting used to the five day rotation. Adjusting from a college schedule to a pro schedule is not automatic. He hasn't had enough starts yet to see how he will handle that aspect. That doesn't change the results though, he's off to a flying start. I'm going to be in Charleston SC to watch the Riverdogs and Drive play July 7-9. I am really hoping to see Gunkel and Ball throw. |
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Post by alnipper on Jun 15, 2014 10:18:01 GMT -5
Good control pitchers tend to breeze through low-A hitters. That being said give him a few more outings in low-A before heading to Salem. There is a chance he could move fast over the next year or two.
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Post by amfox1 on Jun 15, 2014 10:28:06 GMT -5
Per milb.com, Gunk debuted a new slider last night. Could be a reason he's still in low-A.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 15, 2014 10:32:11 GMT -5
Per milb.com, Gunk debuted a new slider last night. Could be a reason he's still in low-A. |
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jun 15, 2014 10:57:00 GMT -5
The most interesting thing to me is how dominant he has been against lefties. It runs counter to his current profile as a low-arm-slot righty with a low-90s fastball and poor changeup. I wonder if there have been some strides made with that changeup causing him to miss more bats v. lefties.
Stats:
vs. Lefties: 25 IP, 11 H, 6 ER, 5 BB, 38 K
vs. Righties: 26.1 IP, 15 H, 7 ER, 6 BB, 24 K
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Post by nattyburns2 on Jun 16, 2014 11:08:25 GMT -5
Per milb.com, Gunk debuted a new slider last night. Could be a reason he's still in low-A. From talking with joe, yes he is incorporating a slider. Saw him pitch Saturday in Hagerstown.. |
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 23, 2014 7:33:42 GMT -5
BP Monday Morning Ten-Pack (I'm not sure why they don't call it the Monday Night Ten Pack) www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=23957#.U6gHn0tZRio.twitterJoe Gunkel, RHP, Red Sox (High-A Salem) I caught Gunkel's start the other week when I visited Hagerstown to watch Lucas Giolito. The Nationals starter stole the show, but Gunkel walked away with the victory and the better stat line. While he does nothing great, Gunkel has solid command of his fastball. His arm slot is nearly sidearmed, which helps to play up the fringe-average 89-92 mph fastball. The Hagerstown lineup generally struggled to pick up the fastball out of his hand, and he was able to work his fringe changeup and slider when needed. He was quietly strong in this outing, and the Sox promoted him to Salem shortly after. There is not much growth left in terms of frame or overall skill set, and he won’t be making any prospect lists anytime soon, but he could be a role 4 middle reliever in the bigs at some point. –Tucker Blair |
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