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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 28, 2014 12:35:59 GMT -5
he takes up a 40-man spot unnecessarily for the next 12 months ... who is the player exposed to Rule 5 and lost as a result? ... and who here will be complaining in December?
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Post by terriblehondo on Jun 28, 2014 12:36:16 GMT -5
Good Luck to Mookie. I hope the move to open the spot is not RDLR
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Post by telson13 on Jun 28, 2014 12:54:31 GMT -5
I have no concerns about this move. Even if Betts takes another 130-point hit to his OPS (as he did in the AA to AAA move), he's still around .730 in the majors. He's a base path threat and a good bet to provide average-to-very good defense. In response to the idea that he's not capable of providing a Puig-sequel spark because he's not that level talent, I would argue that scouts seem to feel differently. He has a different skillset (hit tool, speed, defense, fundamentals, selectivity, with much less power) but has absolutely obliterated minor league pitching the past year and a half, and has actually *improved* (after short adjustment periods) each time he's moved up a level. With several contracts expiring and several major-league players likely to be non-tendered, I don't worry at all about his 40-man roster spot. And, I think that as an elite-level talent, this won't impede his progress as a player, but rather probably accelerate it.
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Post by jdb on Jun 28, 2014 13:05:57 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 28, 2014 13:43:29 GMT -5
Geez sleep for a few hours...
Congrats to Mookie, put me in the corner that thinks there's more upside than downside regardless of how the season unfolds.
My preferences for the corresponding move would be if there was a pending Peavy trade, or sending Workman down for a month and keeping RDLR up. (I'm 50-50ish on that but the service time situation tilts the balance for me).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2014 13:46:12 GMT -5
This is the lineup I would like to see: Betts RF Holt 3B Ortiz DH Napoli 1B Nava LF Pedroia 2B Pierzynski c Bogaerts SS Bradley CF Uncertain whether Betts will even be in the lineup, but I guarantee you he won't be leading off.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 14:01:04 GMT -5
^It is quite rare for a rookie to make his debut leading off. This link is dated (from 2008) but noteworthy nonetheless. It lists rookies who made their debut in the lead off spot in the order. The guy put it together when Brett Gardner was introduced to the majors this way back in June of 2008 :
www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/702
Some of the other notables pre-2009 include Johnny Damon, Ray Durham, and Shannon Stewart (all 1995), Ichiro (2001), Coco Crisp (2002), and friend of the program Dave Roberts (1999).
I know that Andrew McCutchen also debuted as a leadoff hitter in 2009 as did Yasiel Puig and Jonathan Villar in 2013.
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Post by elguapo on Jun 28, 2014 14:08:21 GMT -5
he takes up a 40-man spot unnecessarily for the next 12 months ... who is the player exposed to Rule 5 and lost as a result? ... and who here will be complaining in December? I think indications were pretty good Mookie was going to be up in September at latest, so there's really minimal change. The 40th roster spot is for a marginal player -- there's no sense having the tail wag the dog. And who knows what the 40-man will look like even a month from now?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 28, 2014 14:09:27 GMT -5
What's more pressure, leading off in your first game or batting in a different slot than you are used to in your first game ?
Mookie only hit second when Victorino rehabbed a game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 14:26:14 GMT -5
^After reviewing some of the names of guys who have debuted in the lead off spot, I think the Sox are actually going to go for it with Mookie.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 28, 2014 14:31:44 GMT -5
Betts is not in tonight's lineup. So there you go.
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 28, 2014 14:32:44 GMT -5
Betts is not in tonight's lineup. So there you go. I'm fine with that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 14:49:36 GMT -5
Betts is not in tonight's lineup. So there you go. I'm fine with that. Ditto. Debuting against Tanaka would be asking a bit much. Tomorrow night. Leading off.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jun 28, 2014 15:40:57 GMT -5
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 28, 2014 15:48:32 GMT -5
If the plan is to play Mookie in RF, return Holt to 3B and Xander to SS, and bury Drew, I'm fine with it, but I rather doubt that. So the problem with this move is that it comes 8 games after JBJ reverted to his old open stance and started hitting much better. If they've recalled Mookie as a platoon bat ... WTF?
If they option De La Rosa, who has, you know, merely been one of the 10 best SP in baseball over his 5 starts, then it makes even less sense. But I'll opine on that when and if we hear about the roster move.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 16:20:54 GMT -5
If the plan is to play Mookie in RF, return Holt to 3B and Xander to SS, and bury Drew, I'm fine with it, but I rather doubt that. So the problem with this move is that it comes 8 games after JBJ reverted to his old open stance and started hitting much better. If they've recalled Mookie as a platoon bat ... WTF? If they option De La Rosa, who has, you know, merely been one of the 10 best SP in baseball over his 5 starts, then it makes even less sense. But I'll opine on that when and if we hear about the roster move. If Mookie plays CF and performs well, I wouldn't be surprised if JBJ is sent down and recalled in September. From a business standpoint it would make sense since you'd gain an extra year of team control (he had 59 days of service time entering this year). Boras would likely howl to high heaven though, since JBJ would just miss (by a matter of a day or two) a full year of cumulative service time.
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 28, 2014 17:14:02 GMT -5
What's more pressure, leading off in your first game or batting in a different slot than you are used to in your first game ? This is micro-analyzing to the point of silliness. You know the answer.
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 28, 2014 17:33:28 GMT -5
If the plan is to play Mookie in RF, return Holt to 3B and Xander to SS, and bury Drew, I'm fine with it, but I rather doubt that. So the problem with this move is that it comes 8 games after JBJ reverted to his old open stance and started hitting much better. If they've recalled Mookie as a platoon bat ... WTF? Pretty simply solution here. Holt plays catcher.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2014 17:59:05 GMT -5
If the plan is to play Mookie in RF, return Holt to 3B and Xander to SS, and bury Drew, I'm fine with it, but I rather doubt that. So the problem with this move is that it comes 8 games after JBJ reverted to his old open stance and started hitting much better. If they've recalled Mookie as a platoon bat ... WTF? Pretty simply solution here. Holt plays catcher. Holt is already slated to be his own personal catcher on days he starts.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 28, 2014 19:10:35 GMT -5
What's more pressure, leading off in your first game or batting in a different slot than you are used to in your first game ? This is micro-analyzing to the point of silliness. You know the answer. Agree. Just give him a bat and throw him out there. The board consensus is that the season is lost anyway. So what does it matter? The hyper-sensitivity thing is a real stretch to me. Good athletes perform if you give them space and time. The team has both this year. As Hatfield pointed out, there are options to burn if it doesn't work out right away.
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Post by sammo420 on Jun 28, 2014 19:23:02 GMT -5
If he shows up in a suit with glasses and a blue tights underneath with a big red "M" on it I'm out of here.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 28, 2014 19:51:16 GMT -5
Hate the move... Just have to say it. Said the same with jbj
Gl to betts I'm hoping for the best for him.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 29, 2014 1:26:04 GMT -5
This is micro-analyzing to the point of silliness. You know the answer. Agree. Just give him a bat and throw him out there. The board consensus is that the season is lost anyway. So what does it matter? The hyper-sensitivity thing is a real stretch to me. Good athletes perform if you give them space and time. The team has both this year. As Hatfield pointed out, there are options to burn if it doesn't work out right away. It was intended to be a rhetorical question in response to Hatfield's comment that he guaranteed Mookie would not be leading off.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 29, 2014 3:20:55 GMT -5
Edes on the Mookie plan:Thank God my rant in the game thread, driven by hated of the Drew signing, was completely wrong. But five games a week for each rookie means that there's four left for Drew in a 6-game week -- and seven left in a 7-game week. (From now until the trade deadline, we have four 6-game weeks, three 7-game weeks, plus the 3-day week with the ASB.) What they should do (games per week):CF Bradley 5-6, Betts 1 RF Betts 4-5, Holt 2 3B Holt 4-5, Bogaerts 2-3 SS Bogaerts 4, Drew 2-3 Essentially, you have the obvious regular lineup without Drew. Twice a week you play Drew at SS, X at 3B, and Holt in right, once to give Mookie a blow and once to rest JBJ. When there's no off day, you use the extra game to have Drew give either Holt of Xander a rare day off. What I think they'll do (games per week):
CF Bradley 5-6, Betts 1-2 RF Betts 4, Holt 2-3 3B Bogaerts 5-6, Holt 1 SS Drew 4-5, Holt 2 Here the regular lineup omits Holt, who gets one off day a week, and otherwise takes turns spelling Mookie (and JBJ via Mookie in CF), X, and Drew. The difference between this and what I'd like is a) taking 2 games from Drew and giving them to X and Holt, and of course b) Xander back primarily to SS. Their reluctance to shuttle him between SS and 3B (which is what I make of the comment about Holt playing SS) is strange given that that had to be the plan when they signed Drew and expected WMB back by about now--a Drew / Middlebrooks platoon. I could live with this if and only if it were temporary and were a prelude to a Drew trade (dump).
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Post by burythehammer on Jun 29, 2014 4:45:13 GMT -5
I don't like the idea of Xander getting any days off that aren't rest/pain related, even if it's to get Mookie in the lineup. If it's to get any of those other 3 guys in that's an abomination.
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