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Should the Red Sox trade Dustin Pedroia?
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Post by theburn on Sept 3, 2014 19:14:56 GMT -5
While I understand much of the logic behind a theoretical Pedroia trade, let's not fall into the 'let the kids play' trap again. Both Vazquez and Castillo will be adjusting to their first full seasons in the major leagues next year, and adding Betts into that mix while removing Pedroia's veteran presence doesn't exactly sound like a recipe for success in 2015. Based on the moves BC made at the deadline, it seems he has every intention of making this team competitive in 2015. It's hard to imagine a Pedroia trade factoring into that.
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Post by redsox4242 on Sept 17, 2014 10:02:41 GMT -5
Do you guys still think Pedroia will win the Gold Glove? Considering he played in 135 games and is out for the season does that impact the voting?
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 17, 2014 11:53:23 GMT -5
Do you guys still think Pedroia will win the Gold Glove? Considering he played in 135 games and is out for the season does that impact the voting? He better. Kinsler is the only other second baseman who has come close to matching Pedroia's stellar defense. Peds leads all MLB 2B's in DRS, UZR, UZR/150, and Def (FG). He's saved the most runs this season in total and on a rate basis, and while Kinsler has a chance to pass him in DRS this month, Pedroia pretty clearly has been the superior overall defender.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Sept 18, 2014 1:54:14 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 18, 2014 9:18:09 GMT -5
That article doesn't even hint at a Pedroia trade. Pedroia is worth a lot and won't be going anywhere.
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Post by mattpicard on Sept 18, 2014 10:20:28 GMT -5
I hope people aren't under the impression that Pedroia is now a mediocre player who will be greatly overpaid going forward. In an injury shortened season that included him playing through some ailments, he posted a 4.3 fWAR and 4.7 bWAR. Yes, those are heavily fueled by defense, but this isn't a case of a guy getting a questionable WAR boost due to unreliable metrics. He really is elite at second base, as we see him make non-stop run saving plays and very rarely flub anything. Until his defense significantly declines and/or he becomes worse than a league average hitter, he's a true asset, not some beloved veteran with middling performance that we have to tolerate.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 18, 2014 10:55:06 GMT -5
Yes, he's a good 6-7 years away from Jeter status.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,842
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Post by nomar on Sept 18, 2014 12:19:36 GMT -5
I hope people aren't under the impression that Pedroia is now a mediocre player who will be greatly overpaid going forward. In an injury shortened season that included him playing through some ailments, he posted a 4.3 fWAR and 4.7 bWAR. Yes, those are heavily fueled by defense, but this isn't a case of a guy getting a questionable WAR boost due to unreliable metrics. He really is elite at second base, as we see him make non-stop run saving plays and very rarely flub anything. Until his defense significantly declines and/or he becomes worse than a league average hitter, he's a true asset, not some beloved veteran with middling performance that we have to tolerate. I agree but think it's more of a case of people wanting Mookie at 2B. Obviously Pedroia is an asset, not a liability. His hitting should at least hold steady next year, more likely improve after his surgery.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 10, 2014 14:36:59 GMT -5
If a team needing a 2B (Nationals,Marlins) call should the Red Sox listen on Pedroia? Could moving Pedroia & Cespedes in separate trades for SP be beneficial? Leaving Betts at 2B and in RF Victorino/Nava/Craig/Holt?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2014 14:39:19 GMT -5
No. I wish this thread were locked.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 10, 2014 14:49:09 GMT -5
If a team needing a 2B (Nationals,Marlins) call should the Red Sox listen on Pedroia? Only if they are offering Strasburg/Fernandez.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 10, 2014 15:04:36 GMT -5
Pedroia for Strasburg
As long as the team gets to negotiate/sign him to an extension first.
Buy out his last two years of arbitration and add on 8 more years after that. Allowing him to opt out in 2021 at age 32 with 4 years left on the deal.
Sox would have him for 6 years ages 26/27 - 31/32 before he could opt out
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 10, 2014 15:06:52 GMT -5
Maybe we can get that done today the day we lost Lester. Red Sox Nation would remain calm and sane. Where can we trade Papi while we're at it?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 10, 2014 17:54:23 GMT -5
If a team needing a 2B (Nationals,Marlins) call should the Red Sox listen on Pedroia? Only if they are offering Strasburg/Fernandez. Well Said. I don't want to trade Pedroia, I really don't. I would trade him though for an elite young pitcher like Starsburg and Fernandez. As much as Pedroia is a team guy and a true Red Sox you do what's in the best interest of the team.
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Post by gatorgreenwell on Dec 11, 2014 11:16:23 GMT -5
They need his defense more than ever now that they have Miley, Porcello, and Kelly in the rotation...
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,842
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Post by nomar on Dec 11, 2014 11:27:21 GMT -5
No, and Pedroia isnt worth Strasburg so the convo isn't even hypothetically relevant.
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Post by dmaineah on Dec 18, 2014 11:29:52 GMT -5
I'd prefer to try and trade for Strasburgh but I would do Dustin Pedroia for Gio Gonzalez straight up.
Gonzalez; 2015 29yrs $11,000,000 2016 30yrs $12,000,000 2017 31yrs *$12,000,000 $12M Team Option, $500k Buyout 2018 32yrs *$12,000,000 $12M Vesting Option becomes guaranteed with 180 innings in 2017
Pedroia; 2015 31yrs Boston Red Sox $12,500,000 2016 32yrs Boston Red Sox $13,000,000 2017 33yrs Boston Red Sox $15,000,000 2018 34yrs Boston Red Sox $16,000,000 2019 35yrs Boston Red Sox $15,000,000 2020 36yrs Boston Red Sox $13,000,000 2021 37yrs Boston Red Sox $12,000,000
The Nationals are looking for a 2nd baseman
This allows Mookie Betts to play 2nd base for Boston and bat leadoff
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Post by kmann on Dec 18, 2014 12:14:45 GMT -5
If Pedey is NOT interested in being traded, this discussion seems silly to me. If we traded Pedey, how could we expect ANY future star Sox player to give the Sox a big hometown discount?
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TX
Veteran
Posts: 265
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Post by TX on Dec 19, 2014 22:41:39 GMT -5
Yankee fans never considered trading Jeter until it was beyond obvious he was toast, and even then their attitude disturbed me. That was bad enough, but let us trade Petey simply because he signed a favorable contract? Shame on you people.
Petey straight up for Sale? Screw you, Chicago.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 20, 2014 0:59:09 GMT -5
Yankee fans never considered trading Jeter until it was beyond obvious he was toast, and even then their attitude disturbed me. That was bad enough, but let us trade Petey simply because he signed a favorable contract? Shame on you people. Petey straight up for Sale? Screw you, Chicago. Gee. Didn't know the ChiSox were offering Sale for Pedroia. Cool. Betts to 2b. Vic to RF. All good. Seriously, what's the point of a theoretical Pedroia trade thread anyways? He's not going anywhere. We all know this. Where's the should the Sox trade Ortiz thread? Ortiz and Pedroia aren't going anywhere.
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Post by blizzards39 on Dec 20, 2014 15:19:20 GMT -5
Even with declining offences numbers, his leadership and defence is worth the contract. Lets face it 7/96 on the open market would still be a steal. He was a FWAR 4.4 win player last year.
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Post by marshaevelyn on Dec 20, 2014 16:14:43 GMT -5
I have been waffling over the idea of trading Pedroia since the Summer and I still change my mind daily on the subject. I understand the analogy with Jeter when one considers the Yankees had the worst runs saved percentage at shortstop in the major leagues over the last two years. Also Mookie Betts' best, and most played, position is 2nd base which would allow him an everyday spot in the lineup and would allow the Gold Glove fielding Shane Victorino to also play everyday until he gets injured.
However, possibly after 2015, Dustin becomes the veteran presence on the team and I doubt when he starts to deteriorate he would pull what Jeter did and basically dictate to his manager where he would play. In fact, I hope he is team-player enough to realize that he may need to step down into the mid to lower third of the order even in 2015 if Castillo, Bogaerts and Betts hit as projected.
So much of me would not want to see Petey leave Boston, and in the short term I feel he will still be a valuable asset. However if one is in Cherington's position trading Pedroia now would garner the best return rather than waiting 2-3 years.
Of course the biggest "if" will be whether or not Betts, Castillo and Bogaerts adjust well. Bogaerts may have turned the corner but it remains to be seen if Mookie and Rusney have difficulty adjusting to the offspeed and breaking pitches they will see in abundance while in the Show. If they do stumble, having Petey healthy and in the upper third of the order will become imperative.
I saw Mookie play second base with Salem and he is a natural there, so I have little concern for his defense and in fact watching he and Marerro work the middle was exciting and maybe a view into the future for the Red Sox.
Even now I don't want to see Pedroia leave and I vacillate upon the idea as to whether it would really benefit the team.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 20, 2014 16:43:30 GMT -5
Pedroia is about as untouchable as a player gets. Everyone here realizes that his contract's AAV is more than $10M lower than Cano's, and his contract is two years shorter, right? Even during what everyone recognizes as a down year, he was seventh among MLB second basemen in fWAR (concerns about how defense is factored in to any sort of WAR acknowledged).
As good of a prospect as Mookie Betts is, I would bet against him ever becoming as good as Pedroia, and on that contract, it would be insane to get rid of him.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Dec 21, 2014 9:04:53 GMT -5
Agree Chris. Plus, the Jeter comparisons just make no sense for several reasons. First off, when the Yankees should have started thinking about moving Jeter off the team (from a purely theorhetical standpoint), was about maybe 2010 so he was age 36, Dustin Pedroia will be 31 next year. Next, Jeter's salary was much more ridiculous when they were paying it, as one of the top salaries in the game. We've all gone over how Pedroia is on an exceptionally team friendly contract. Third, and I cannot stress this part enough, Dustin Pedroia is an elite defensive second baseman, and at the time it started making sense to move on from Jeter, he was a horrendous defensive shortstop (he wasn't even a great defensive short stop early on - but he was good enough to be left there - at least until ARod showed up, but that's another story). Any defensive statistic from any website people want to look at will bear out these numbers showing Pedroia to be exceptionally more valuable with the glove.
For context, of what Jeter was as a short stop, while we admit that defensive statistics have their difficulties, looking at FanGraphs, Bogaerts UZR/150 ranking last year (-3.7) would have been the 4th BEST season of any that Jeter put up in the 13 seasons he played between 2002 and retiring. For the record, I did try to look up some of his other stats, but all stats other than UZR/150 include Bogaerts nearly historically bad 1/3 season at 3b in their values, which drastically skew the numbers.
To equate the Red Sox trading Pedrioa now to the Yankees moving on from Jeter circa about 2010 is crazy on many levels. It would be like saying that the Red Sox should not have extended David Ortiz just because the Yankees did extend Alex Rodriguez. Crazy.
That said - if people want to go back and make the suggestion that the Yankees SHOULD have moved Jeter to either 2b or the OF once they got Rodriguez in 2004, now that would be a good argument.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 21, 2014 12:37:03 GMT -5
You can justify trading Pedey in the right deal if you ignore everything but contract, age, performance and roster construction. In normal circumstances, those are all that matters, but he crosses into the exception category. I believe in loyalty where loyalty is due. Pedey has put his money where is mouth is and has committed to the Red Sox. They have in turn committed to him and treated him well. The continuation of that is keeping him and not even considering a trade of him unless he came to you. You will never have to worry about his commitment and effort.
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