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7/25-7/27 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 27, 2014 15:20:15 GMT -5
If Betts and Marrero both work their way onto the team next year, you'll also have the former to spell Pedroia at second. Both of those guys are also stellar.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 27, 2014 15:41:05 GMT -5
Miller goes out to the mound, warms up for the 8th then before the inning starts gets pulled?
Has he been traded?
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Post by theaveragefan88 on Jul 27, 2014 15:43:11 GMT -5
Miller goes out to the mound, warms up for the 8th then before the inning starts gets pulled? Has he been traded? Nope, pinch hitter.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 27, 2014 15:44:58 GMT -5
That's more like the Junichi Tazawa we know.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 27, 2014 15:45:37 GMT -5
Miller goes out to the mound, warms up for the 8th then before the inning starts gets pulled? Has he been traded? Nope, pinch hitter. Perfect example of a way to speed up the game
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 27, 2014 15:47:14 GMT -5
Perfect example of a way to speed up the game Typical f'ing Maddon. What a loser.
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Post by marrcus on Jul 27, 2014 15:49:09 GMT -5
Couple of nice holds, really want to end both streaks.
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Post by jmei on Jul 27, 2014 16:01:27 GMT -5
Seriously, I think he has filthy stuff. I also think he should just pitch to contact, which people say he was doing more of in AAA. But today looked like a rerun of the two AAA starts I saw by him live in Pawtucket last year and his 8 MLB starts on TV. Not sure if he's anxious up there, but even if he's not, being unable to repeat delivery is completely mental ( i.e mind engages the body to undertake any physical task and build the neural pathways and "muscle memory" to successfully repeat more complex tasks). It's still the same-sized plate and 60 feet, 6 inches away. If the strike zone's been crappy, well, I'm guessing the umps in AAA aren't the robo-umps we deserve, either. Like every other baseball player at every level he has to adjust. And if Webster really struggles with the mechanics then they should have him pitching from the stretch 100% of the time. C'mon now. When you call Webster's head "a bag of cats" and then later imply that he "nibbles" too much and that "he should just pitch to contact," noone takes that to mean criticism of his motor skills. Whether you intend to do so or not, that type of language clearly suggests that the only things holding him back are psychological in nature. That he's afraid to throw the ball over the plate or that his anxiety (as opposed to his mechanics) are the reason his command/control is so poor. That sort of armchair psychoanalysis is complete and total nonsense. You know nothing about Webster's psychological state, and to speculate about it as the primary cause of his struggles impugns him personally to a different degree than criticizing his mechanics or his velocity does. Rather than criticizing Allen Webster the baseball player, it veers into casting moral aspersions on Allen Webster the person by implying that he's wasting his considerable physical talents because he's a coward or a headcase or whatever. That's totally off-base when you're just basing it on the fact that he looks flustered on the mound sometimes, and I'm going to push back against it every time this kind of stuff gets repeated. /rant
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Post by redsox4242 on Jul 27, 2014 16:05:04 GMT -5
nice win!!!
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Post by marrcus on Jul 27, 2014 16:08:21 GMT -5
No HR from Big Father... they get shut out again. He and the pen get it done today. And...the catch in CF by Bradley not too shabby.
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 16:39:54 GMT -5
Seriously, I think he has filthy stuff. I also think he should just pitch to contact, which people say he was doing more of in AAA. But today looked like a rerun of the two AAA starts I saw by him live in Pawtucket last year and his 8 MLB starts on TV. Not sure if he's anxious up there, but even if he's not, being unable to repeat delivery is completely mental ( i.e mind engages the body to undertake any physical task and build the neural pathways and "muscle memory" to successfully repeat more complex tasks). C'mon now. When you call Webster's head "a bag of cats" and then later imply that he "nibbles" too much and that "he should just pitch to contact," noone takes that to mean criticism of his motor skills. Whether you intend to do so or not, that type of language clearly suggests that the only things holding him back are psychological in nature. That he's afraid to throw the ball over the plate or that his anxiety (as opposed to his mechanics) are the reason his command/control is so poor. That sort of armchair psychoanalysis is complete and total nonsense. You know nothing about Webster's psychological state, and to speculate about it as the primary cause of his struggles impugns him personally to a different degree than criticizing his mechanics or his velocity does. Rather than criticizing Allen Webster the baseball player, it veers into casting moral aspersions on Allen Webster the person by implying that he's wasting his considerable physical talents because he's a coward or a headcase or whatever. That's totally off-base when you're just basing it on the fact that he looks flustered on the mound sometimes, and I'm going to push back against it every time this kind of stuff gets repeated. /rant You are being a tad too harsh here. Don't believe he is saying that Webster is a head case or guessing his psychological state. Rather, he is trying to explain what he believes is the psycho-physical processes at work or not at work. Some call it repetition, but he is trying to give an explanation of the learning process. Definitely over my head and perhaps his but the little I know suggest to me that he may be on to something.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 27, 2014 17:03:12 GMT -5
Someone else posted it and I think it's the right approach. Let Webster be the low man on the totem pole for the rest of this year, getting his starts and working with a catcher he's familiar with. This season is about transition anyway, so a few more losses here and there won't be devastating. His stuff is absurd and working on repeating the delivery is at the top of the list. He can do that with Boston as well as he can somewhere else. One of these days the home plate ump is going to figure out that movement and give him those pitches on the edge and he'll have an exceptional game. He generates enough swings and misses for 3 guys, his stuff is that filthy.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jul 27, 2014 17:08:00 GMT -5
I can't remember which pitcher said it. They had a lot of movement too. Just aim down the middle.
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 17:13:57 GMT -5
Someone else posted it and I think it's the right approach. Let Webster be the low man on the totem pole for the rest of this year, getting his starts and working with a catcher he's familiar with. This season is about transition anyway, so a few more losses here and there won't be devastating. His stuff is absurd and working on repeating the delivery is at the top of the list. He can do that with Boston as well as he can somewhere else. One of these days the home plate ump is going to figure out that movement and give him those pitches on the edge and he'll have an exceptional game. He generates enough swings and misses for 3 guys, his stuff is that filthy. What he said. It may actually be better to get this experience in the big top. It would give us something to follow.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 27, 2014 17:35:06 GMT -5
Seriously, I think he has filthy stuff. I also think he should just pitch to contact, which people say he was doing more of in AAA. But today looked like a rerun of the two AAA starts I saw by him live in Pawtucket last year and his 8 MLB starts on TV. Not sure if he's anxious up there, but even if he's not, being unable to repeat delivery is completely mental ( i.e mind engages the body to undertake any physical task and build the neural pathways and "muscle memory" to successfully repeat more complex tasks). It's still the same-sized plate and 60 feet, 6 inches away. If the strike zone's been crappy, well, I'm guessing the umps in AAA aren't the robo-umps we deserve, either. Like every other baseball player at every level he has to adjust. And if Webster really struggles with the mechanics then they should have him pitching from the stretch 100% of the time. C'mon now. When you call Webster's head "a bag of cats" and then later imply that he "nibbles" too much and that "he should just pitch to contact," noone takes that to mean criticism of his motor skills. Whether you intend to do so or not, that type of language clearly suggests that the only things holding him back are psychological in nature. That he's afraid to throw the ball over the plate or that his anxiety (as opposed to his mechanics) are the reason his command/control is so poor. That sort of armchair psychoanalysis is complete and total nonsense. You know nothing about Webster's psychological state, and to speculate about it as the primary cause of his struggles impugns him personally to a different degree than criticizing his mechanics or his velocity does. Rather than criticizing Allen Webster the baseball player, it veers into casting moral aspersions on Allen Webster the person by implying that he's wasting his considerable physical talents because he's a coward or a headcase or whatever. That's totally off-base when you're just basing it on the fact that he looks flustered on the mound sometimes, and I'm going to push back against it every time this kind of stuff gets repeated. /rant In martial arts it was called "monkey mind" or "brain like a bag of cats." It means you can't relax and are forcing what should be fluid. I don't know Allen Webster at all. But what I do know about his mental state is that he has problems replicating the same motion with the same pitches to generate strikes when he has been in MLB as opposed to MiLB. That shows that he either suddenly loses his composure (mental), cannot repeat his motion (mental) or becomes anxious (mental). I personally believe he should pitch to contact and all these guys above AA who are inconsistent should throw from the stretch because it involves less to remember. Period.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 27, 2014 18:12:15 GMT -5
In physiology it's called muscle memory.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 27, 2014 18:27:04 GMT -5
In physiology it's called muscle memory. True that. You create neural pathways through incessant repetition. They used to say, to make a technique part of you, you must do it 10,000 times. Malcolm Gladwell recently made the same observation in one of his books. Of course, outstanding "natural" athletes tend to acquire these skills much more quickly than others. But it's still a mind-body connection. We've all seen guys who do better when the are suddenly called in for a spot start; we've also seen guys who just don't do well when they are place outside of their comfort zones. Ultimately execution in sports - especially in baseball - is often just relaxing and repeating a motion, whether it be a swing or throwing a pitch. Swing too hard and you're likely to pop the ball up or top it for a ground out. Overthrow or aim and you miss the zone. This is why it is the hardest of games, but also why it is so beautiful when it is played well.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jul 27, 2014 18:27:24 GMT -5
In martial arts it was called "monkey mind" or "brain like a bag of cats." It means you can't relax and are forcing what should be fluid. I don't know Allen Webster at all. But what I do know about his mental state is that he has problems replicating the same motion with the same pitches to generate strikes when he has been in MLB as opposed to MiLB. That shows that he either suddenly loses his composure (mental), cannot repeat his motion (mental) or becomes anxious (mental). I personally believe he should pitch to contact and all these guys above AA who are inconsistent should throw from the stretch because it involves less to remember. Period. I don't know about the whole 'wax on wax off' stuff - but having Webster pitch exclusively out of the stretch is an interesting idea. In an EXTREMELY small sample size - he has been much better with runners on base: 18.1 innings with men on base: .330 wOBA 12 innings with bases empty: .472 wOBA (stats are from 2013)
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 18:47:02 GMT -5
In physiology it's called muscle memory. True that. You create neural pathways through incessant repetition. They used to say, to make a technique part of you, you must do it 10,000 times. Malcolm Gladwell recently made the same observation in one of his books. Of course, outstanding "natural" athletes tend to acquire these skills much more quickly than others. But it's still a mind-body connection. We've all seen guys who do better when the are suddenly called in for a spot start; we've also seen guys who just don't do well when they are place outside of their comfort zones. Ultimately execution in sports - especially in baseball - is often just relaxing and repeating a motion, whether it be a swing or throwing a pitch. Swing too hard and you're likely to pop the ball up or top it for a ground out. Overthrow or aim and you miss the zone. This is why it is the hardest of games, but also why it is so beautiful when it is played well. Interesting conversations. Maybe should have a thread on subjects and issues like this. Much of what you say seems to be the Zen "no-mind", which for the follower means lots of special exercises and training (repetitions). No-mind does not come easy. This is a field where there is a growing field of research occurring. (Gladwell is a copy and paste pop phony but great marketer. ) Gardner's theory of multiple intelligence hit upon some of the same ideas from a different angle, mainly his notion of bodily -kinesthetic intelligence.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 27, 2014 18:51:17 GMT -5
In physiology it's called muscle memory. True that. You create neural pathways through incessant repetition. They used to say, to make a technique part of you, you must do it 10,000 times. Malcolm Gladwell recently made the same observation in one of his books. Of course, outstanding "natural" athletes tend to acquire these skills much more quickly than others. But it's still a mind-body connection. We've all seen guys who do better when the are suddenly called in for a spot start; we've also seen guys who just don't do well when they are place outside of their comfort zones. Ultimately execution in sports - especially in baseball - is often just relaxing and repeating a motion, whether it be a swing or throwing a pitch. Swing too hard and you're likely to pop the ball up or top it for a ground out. Overthrow or aim and you miss the zone. This is why it is the hardest of games, but also why it is so beautiful when it is played well. It's 10,000 hours and it's nonsense.
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Post by godot on Jul 27, 2014 18:56:51 GMT -5
Why is it nonsense? Gladwell is nonsense ( and a shrill), but the notion of repetition and learning nonsense? Seems common sense. Granted it takes more than just repetitions, perhaps a certain intelligence and training are necessary.
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Post by larrycook on Jul 27, 2014 19:02:00 GMT -5
Great win today! Offense has got to get out of this latest funk.
Relievers bailed us out.
I think all the sox pitchers are taking to Vazquez behind the dish. We teach Napoli how to catch and we can cut down the Vazquez errors by 50%.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jul 27, 2014 19:16:46 GMT -5
C'mon now. When you call Webster's head "a bag of cats" and then later imply that he "nibbles" too much and that "he should just pitch to contact," noone takes that to mean criticism of his motor skills. Whether you intend to do so or not, that type of language clearly suggests that the only things holding him back are psychological in nature. That he's afraid to throw the ball over the plate or that his anxiety (as opposed to his mechanics) are the reason his command/control is so poor. That sort of armchair psychoanalysis is complete and total nonsense. You know nothing about Webster's psychological state, and to speculate about it as the primary cause of his struggles impugns him personally to a different degree than criticizing his mechanics or his velocity does. Rather than criticizing Allen Webster the baseball player, it veers into casting moral aspersions on Allen Webster the person by implying that he's wasting his considerable physical talents because he's a coward or a headcase or whatever. That's totally off-base when you're just basing it on the fact that he looks flustered on the mound sometimes, and I'm going to push back against it every time this kind of stuff gets repeated. /rant In martial arts it was called "monkey mind" or "brain like a bag of cats." It means you can't relax and are forcing what should be fluid. I don't know Allen Webster at all. But what I do know about his mental state is that he has problems replicating the same motion with the same pitches to generate strikes when he has been in MLB as opposed to MiLB. That shows that he either suddenly loses his composure (mental), cannot repeat his motion (mental) or becomes anxious (mental). I personally believe he should pitch to contact and all these guys above AA who are inconsistent should throw from the stretch because it involves less to remember. Period. By this definition, *everything* is mental ... while what you say is technically true ("kinetic intelligence" is one term for what you're talking about), calling that "mental" isn't the common use of the term, at all. I mean, you could say that WMB's problems hitting are "mental" because he doesn't process the incoming pitches quickly enough. It makes the term meaningless.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 27, 2014 19:21:48 GMT -5
Why is it nonsense? Gladwell is nonsense ( and a shrill), but the notion of repetition and learning nonsense? Seems common sense. Granted it takes more than just repetitions, perhaps a certain intelligence and training are necessary. Obviously becoming good at something requires practice, but that's such a basic observation that it shouldn't even merit mentioning. The "10,000 hours" thing is just complete BS of course. If Webster practices, can he get better? Maybe. Maybe not. Ok, great discussion.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 27, 2014 19:32:04 GMT -5
Why is it nonsense? Gladwell is nonsense ( and a shrill), but the notion of repetition and learning nonsense? Seems common sense. Granted it takes more than just repetitions, perhaps a certain intelligence and training are necessary. Obviously becoming good at something requires practice, but that's such a basic observation that it shouldn't even merit mentioning. The "10,000 hours" thing is just complete BS of course. If Webster practices, can he get better? Maybe. Maybe not. Ok, great discussion. Given the path the team is on this season, I'd like him to practice on ML hitters.
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