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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 4:19:15 GMT -5
Glaus is a bad example. He was the #3 overall pick and played 18 games as SS in the major leagues after playing both SS/3B as an amateur. Travis is much less heralded, much less athletic and is moving from the other direction on the defensive spectrum. Besides, Travis Shaw actually did play some 3B coming up, and is more likely to succeed there in 2016 if needed. However, if Deven Marrerro can hit a lick this year, boy would he be a great 3B. Marrero is a backup infielder. His stock is starting to fall fast. He is looking like John McDonald with each passing day.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 4:47:26 GMT -5
I just think I'm posing a question that the Sox organization should be thinking about. First and Third base are the future questions in this organization going forward.
Maybe the Sox sign Jose Bautista next off-season and they have him play some outfield and third base instead of moving Sam Travis off his comfort zone. Actually Jose Bautista makes a lot of sense looking past 2016.
Other than that the Sox have serious questions at third base. Moncada is looking more like a outfielder with his skill set and the comfort he has tracking fly balls versus ground balls. Devers is a question mark because of his body type and he's still has a lot to prove as he keeps developing. Pablo Sandoval doesn't look like anything more than a short term solution at third base. There's huge questions whether Travis Shaw could hit enough to be a everyday player.
There's always a free agent that can fill in at first base if need be. Like for example if the Sox don't sign Bautista, then they could go after Mark Texeira there after 2016.
If the Sox can create a backup plan by experimenting and seeing if Sam Travis can play at third and not assume he can't, then that will give the Sox more options down the road if need be. Sam Travis's bat plays real well in my eyes at third. It's really hard to find a third baseman that can hit well in the majors. This is something the Sox need to do in 2016, in my opinion.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 23, 2016 7:30:13 GMT -5
Besides, Travis Shaw actually did play some 3B coming up, and is more likely to succeed there in 2016 if needed. However, if Deven Marrerro can hit a lick this year, boy would he be a great 3B. Marrero is a backup infielder. His stock is starting to fall fast. He is looking like John McDonald with each passing day. Would that be 10 year career MLBer John McDonald ?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 23, 2016 7:35:19 GMT -5
I just think I'm posing a question that the Sox organization should be thinking about. First and Third base are the future questions in this organization going forward. Maybe the Sox sign Jose Bautista next off-season and they have him play some outfield and third base instead of moving Sam Travis off his comfort zone. Actually Jose Bautista makes a lot of sense looking past 2016. Other than that the Sox have serious questions at third base. Moncada is looking more like a outfielder with his skill set and the comfort he has tracking fly balls versus ground balls. Devers is a question mark because of his body type and he's still has a lot to prove as he keeps developing. Pablo Sandoval doesn't look like anything more than a short term solution at third base. There's huge questions whether Travis Shaw could hit enough to be a everyday player. There's always a free agent that can fill in at first base if need be. Like for example if the Sox don't sign Bautista, then they could go after Mark Texeira there after 2016. If the Sox can create a backup plan by experimenting and seeing if Sam Travis can play at third and not assume he can't, then that will give the Sox more options down the road if need be. Sam Travis's bat plays real well in my eyes at third. It's really hard to find a third baseman that can hit well in the majors. This is something the Sox need to do in 2016, in my opinion. Jose Batista has played 4 games at 3B since 2011 and none since 2013. He does have the best bat flip ever though.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 7:40:15 GMT -5
I just think I'm posing a question that the Sox organization should be thinking about. First and Third base are the future questions in this organization going forward. Maybe the Sox sign Jose Bautista next off-season and they have him play some outfield and third base instead of moving Sam Travis off his comfort zone. Actually Jose Bautista makes a lot of sense looking past 2016. Other than that the Sox have serious questions at third base. Moncada is looking more like a outfielder with his skill set and the comfort he has tracking fly balls versus ground balls. Devers is a question mark because of his body type and he's still has a lot to prove as he keeps developing. Pablo Sandoval doesn't look like anything more than a short term solution at third base. There's huge questions whether Travis Shaw could hit enough to be a everyday player. There's always a free agent that can fill in at first base if need be. Like for example if the Sox don't sign Bautista, then they could go after Mark Texeira there after 2016. If the Sox can create a backup plan by experimenting and seeing if Sam Travis can play at third and not assume he can't, then that will give the Sox more options down the road if need be. Sam Travis's bat plays real well in my eyes at third. It's really hard to find a third baseman that can hit well in the majors. This is something the Sox need to do in 2016, in my opinion. Jose Batista has played 4 games at 3B since 2011 and none since 2013. Bautista transitioned to first base in 2015. Maybe that's where his future is. It wouldn't be a stretch to put him back at third base. The Jays haven't needed a third baseman in a while, that's probably why he's stuck in rf and hasn't gone back to 3B. He can probably still play there a lot if required though. He still is in good shape and that arm is still deadly.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 7:41:49 GMT -5
Marrero is a backup infielder. His stock is starting to fall fast. He is looking like John McDonald with each passing day. Would that be 10 year career MLBer John McDonald ? Not saying being John McDonald is a terrible thing but if you're on a top prospect list like Marrero has been the past 3 years, you probably was hoping for something a little better than well.....John McDonald.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 23, 2016 8:45:33 GMT -5
Would that be 10 year career MLBer John McDonald ? Not saying being John McDonald is a terrible thing but if you're on a top prospect list like Marrero has been the past 3 years, you probably was hoping for something a little better than well.....John McDonald. I think you are over valuing prospects. Marrero has never been a 'top' prospect and has never made a top 100 list or a top 10 shortstops list. I'd be more than happy if he turned into a 10+ year quality utility player. Bautista has only played a handfull of games at first base and is not a plus defender.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 23, 2016 10:43:15 GMT -5
You need more athleticism at 3B than at 1B-- because the throws are longer, there's a much smaller margin for error. 3B also have more fielding chances than 1B because there are more RHH. If Travis had the athleticism to be passable at 1B, he certainly would have been tried there in his post-HS career. I think that ship has sailed. But if he has the arm and if he's good at handling ground balls, couldn't he be as passable as say a Troy Glaus (sp?) type at 3B? Maybe I'm overeating him as a defender but most balls hit at third are hard line drives. If he has a good first jump off the bat and can range even a little to his left and right, then shouldn't he be adequate while being a plus offensively? There's a reason they call it the hot corner. I just don't think it hurts the Sox to give it a look. If it's a disaster, at least you know he can play first base. Here's the writeup in MLB's report:
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jimoh
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Posts: 4,123
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Post by jimoh on Jan 23, 2016 10:45:44 GMT -5
Not saying being John McDonald is a terrible thing but if you're on a top prospect list like Marrero has been the past 3 years, you probably was hoping for something a little better than well.....John McDonald. I think you are over valuing prospects. Marrero has never been a 'top' prospect and has never made a top 100 list or a top 10 shortstops list. I'd be more than happy if he turned into a 10+ year quality utility player. Bautista has only played a handfull of games at first base and is not a plus defender. John McDonald never made a BBA top 100 list.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 13:44:50 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 13:44:50 GMT -5
I think you are over valuing prospects. Marrero has never been a 'top' prospect and has never made a top 100 list or a top 10 shortstops list. I'd be more than happy if he turned into a 10+ year quality utility player. Bautista has only played a handfull of games at first base and is not a plus defender. John McDonald never made a BBA top 100 list. Exactly.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 13:47:04 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 13:47:04 GMT -5
But if he has the arm and if he's good at handling ground balls, couldn't he be as passable as say a Troy Glaus (sp?) type at 3B? Maybe I'm overeating him as a defender but most balls hit at third are hard line drives. If he has a good first jump off the bat and can range even a little to his left and right, then shouldn't he be adequate while being a plus offensively? There's a reason they call it the hot corner. I just don't think it hurts the Sox to give it a look. If it's a disaster, at least you know he can play first base. Here's the writeup in MLB's report: I wonder if advancements on defense has changed whether Sam can play 3rd or not. I bet many reports thought Travis Shaw didn't look like much of a third baseman either.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 23, 2016 14:21:46 GMT -5
Here's the writeup in MLB's report: I wonder if advancements on defense has changed whether Sam can play 3rd or not. I bet many reports thought Travis Shaw didn't look like much of a third baseman either. Sam doesn't sound like he has the arm for 3B no matter how hard he works at it.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 23, 2016 14:32:48 GMT -5
Can he pitch?
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Post by jmei on Jan 23, 2016 14:41:33 GMT -5
Travis Shaw's improvement defensively at 3B certainly is a thing, but the Red Sox had given him fairly significant playing time there since he was drafted (22% of his games started in the minors came at 3B) and arguably the only reason he had played more 1B than 3B in the upper minors was because he was blocked at 3B by, among others, Cecchini and Almanzar.
Sam Travis, on the other hand, appears not to have played a game at 3B since high school. In other words, no coach in the last five years thought he had enough defensive potential at 3B to try him there, which is a pretty damning indictment of his potential at that position. Remember, these organizations aren't dumb-- if they thought he had any sort of potential to play that position at a high enough level, he almost certainly would have gotten at least some playing time there. We're talking about the same Indiana coaching staff that stuck with Schwarber at catcher despite his lack of athleticism. If they didn't give Sam Travis a look at 3B, he probably can't hack it there defensively.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 15:21:34 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 15:21:34 GMT -5
I wonder if advancements on defense has changed whether Sam can play 3rd or not. I bet many reports thought Travis Shaw didn't look like much of a third baseman either. Sam doesn't sound like he has the arm for 3B no matter how hard he works at it. Alright if he doesn't have the arm then he probably can't do it. His stats would be so perfect at third base. Just kind of puts a damper on what the Sox can do at the third base position for the foreseeable future. Looks like the Sox are "stuck" with Sandoval.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 15:25:51 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 15:25:51 GMT -5
Travis Shaw's improvement defensively at 3B certainly is a thing, but the Red Sox had given him fairly significant playing time there since he was drafted (22% of his games started in the minors came at 3B) and arguably the only reason he had played more 1B than 3B in the upper minors was because he was blocked at 3B by, among others, Cecchini and Almanzar. Sam Travis, on the other hand, appears not to have played a game at 3B since high school. In other words, no coach in the last five years thought he had enough defensive potential at 3B to try him there, which is a pretty damning indictment of his potential at that position. Remember, these organizations aren't dumb-- if they thought he had any sort of potential to play that position at a high enough level, he almost certainly would have gotten at least some playing time there. We're talking about the same Indiana coaching staff that stuck with Schwarber at catcher despite his lack of athleticism. If they didn't give Sam Travis a look at 3B, he probably can't hack it there defensively. He played some 3rd in college but fair enough. I can't wish him to be a third baseman and I thought it was fair to ask if he can play there. He isn't exactly the tallest first baseman.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
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Post by jimoh on Jan 23, 2016 16:07:00 GMT -5
Sam doesn't sound like he has the arm for 3B no matter how hard he works at it. Alright if he doesn't have the arm then he probably can't do it. His stats would be so perfect at third base. Just kind of puts a damper on what the Sox can do at the third base position for the foreseeable future. Looks like the Sox are "stuck" with Sandoval. Except that your assumption x posts ago that Moncada will definitely wind up in the OF is not necessarily well-founded.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 17:26:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 23, 2016 17:26:32 GMT -5
Alright if he doesn't have the arm then he probably can't do it. His stats would be so perfect at third base. Just kind of puts a damper on what the Sox can do at the third base position for the foreseeable future. Looks like the Sox are "stuck" with Sandoval. Except that your assumption x posts ago that Moncada will definitely wind up in the OF is not necessarily well-founded. Listen to Alex Spier on this website's podcast. He mentions Moncada's defensive abilities on the infield versus the outfield. If that's the case then he screams RF. His athleticism is a waste outside of anything but the outfield. You want the fastest players on a team to cover as much ground as possible. Whether it's up the middle of the diamond or in the outfield.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 23, 2016 17:40:37 GMT -5
And yet the projected roster section of this site has gone back to listing him as starting the year at Portland. For awhile that page had him projected to Pawtucket, but it now has him listed at Portland.I would think the Red Sox would want to start having him get AB's at AAA as soon as possible so that if Hanley doesn't work out at !B Travis might be ready during the second half of the year to platoon at !B with Shaw. And I can't see presence of Allen Craig, Brendan Bosch or Chris Dominguez at Pawtucket keeping them from starting Travis at AAA. Could someone please explain why they think he will start at Portland? I would really like to know the reasoning. I think you're putting too much stock into the projections. It's always beeing an either/or proposition whether he starts the season in Portland or Pawtucket. I, for one, still think he starts in Pawtucket, but there's something to be said for stashing him in Portland for a month to keep as much depth as possible. Remember, the projections are just a rough sketch. There are always some 50-50 balls on there that we just need to throw on the list.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 4,123
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Post by jimoh on Jan 23, 2016 17:47:48 GMT -5
Except that your assumption x posts ago that Moncada will definitely wind up in the OF is not necessarily well-founded. Listen to Alex Spier on this website's podcast. He mentions Moncada's defensive abilities on the infield versus the outfield. If that's the case then he screams RF. His athleticism is a waste outside of anything but the outfield. You want the fastest players on a team to cover as much ground as possible. Whether it's up the middle of the diamond or in the outfield. There is no reason yet to think Moncada would cover more ground in the OF than Bradley, Betts, Castillo, and Benintendi. And if a guy can handle 3b and you need a 3b (we might not), you don't have to move him to the OF.
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Post by jmei on Jan 23, 2016 17:52:04 GMT -5
Moncada certainly seems more likely to be a decent defensive 3B than Sam Travis.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 20:34:42 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jan 23, 2016 20:34:42 GMT -5
I just think I'm posing a question that the Sox organization should be thinking about. First and Third base are the future questions in this organization going forward. Maybe the Sox sign Jose Bautista next off-season and they have him play some outfield and third base instead of moving Sam Travis off his comfort zone. Actually Jose Bautista makes a lot of sense looking past 2016. Other than that the Sox have serious questions at third base. Moncada is looking more like a outfielder with his skill set and the comfort he has tracking fly balls versus ground balls. Devers is a question mark because of his body type and he's still has a lot to prove as he keeps developing. Pablo Sandoval doesn't look like anything more than a short term solution at third base. There's huge questions whether Travis Shaw could hit enough to be a everyday player. There's always a free agent that can fill in at first base if need be. Like for example if the Sox don't sign Bautista, then they could go after Mark Texeira there after 2016. If the Sox can create a backup plan by experimenting and seeing if Sam Travis can play at third and not assume he can't, then that will give the Sox more options down the road if need be. Sam Travis's bat plays real well in my eyes at third. It's really hard to find a third baseman that can hit well in the majors. This is something the Sox need to do in 2016, in my opinion. You're proposing signing Bautista, who will be 35, and Teixiera, who will be 37. It looks like you're trying to assemble an all-geriatric team. News flash: at those ages, players are at huge risk for injury and/or precipitous decline. Bautista, if he were willing to do 3/50 or so *might* be a worthwhile gamble...but you're talking about taking an aging player and sticking him at a far more rigorous position. The odds are **way** against your plan working. And Teixera strikes me as an absolute disaster of a signing. Best bet is playing Moncada at 3rd a la Machado, and filling 1b with one of/combo of Travis, Shaw, Ramirez, and/or a low-cost defensively-minded alternative FA/arb-castoff, provided the offense is strong enough otherwise (which it may very well be). Throwing big $ at aging players absolutely isn't the way to construct a team for a longer haul than one or two years.
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Sam Travis
Jan 23, 2016 20:41:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by telson13 on Jan 23, 2016 20:41:31 GMT -5
And that's presuming Devers isn't ready at some point in 2017. By all accounts, he's improved at third, he already had a strong arm, and those "body type" issues not only haven't progressed, they've regressed from what I've read. Furthermore, one need look no further than Xander Bogaerts to know that presumptions about a player's "body type" have little real predictive value...especially when, if issues were to arise, they'd likely be years down the road. "Body type" questions/assumptions certainly aren't a remotely valid reason to drop $25-35M a year for 3-4 years on two players **WELL** into the historical decline phase of their careers.
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Sam Travis
Jan 24, 2016 13:42:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 24, 2016 13:42:27 GMT -5
I just think I'm posing a question that the Sox organization should be thinking about. First and Third base are the future questions in this organization going forward. Maybe the Sox sign Jose Bautista next off-season and they have him play some outfield and third base instead of moving Sam Travis off his comfort zone. Actually Jose Bautista makes a lot of sense looking past 2016. Other than that the Sox have serious questions at third base. Moncada is looking more like a outfielder with his skill set and the comfort he has tracking fly balls versus ground balls. Devers is a question mark because of his body type and he's still has a lot to prove as he keeps developing. Pablo Sandoval doesn't look like anything more than a short term solution at third base. There's huge questions whether Travis Shaw could hit enough to be a everyday player. There's always a free agent that can fill in at first base if need be. Like for example if the Sox don't sign Bautista, then they could go after Mark Texeira there after 2016. If the Sox can create a backup plan by experimenting and seeing if Sam Travis can play at third and not assume he can't, then that will give the Sox more options down the road if need be. Sam Travis's bat plays real well in my eyes at third. It's really hard to find a third baseman that can hit well in the majors. This is something the Sox need to do in 2016, in my opinion. You're proposing signing Bautista, who will be 35, and Teixiera, who will be 37. It looks like you're trying to assemble an all-geriatric team. News flash: at those ages, players are at huge risk for injury and/or precipitous decline. Bautista, if he were willing to do 3/50 or so *might* be a worthwhile gamble...but you're talking about taking an aging player and sticking him at a far more rigorous position. The odds are **way** against your plan working. And Teixera strikes me as an absolute disaster of a signing. Best bet is playing Moncada at 3rd a la Machado, and filling 1b with one of/combo of Travis, Shaw, Ramirez, and/or a low-cost defensively-minded alternative FA/arb-castoff, provided the offense is strong enough otherwise (which it may very well be). Throwing big $ at aging players absolutely isn't the way to construct a team for a longer haul than one or two years. Problem is the Sox are going to be looking for power after Ortiz retires. The Sox are going to be in on one of Cespedes, Bautista, or Texeira guaranteed. There's no in house replacements for Ortiz's power.
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Sam Travis
Jan 24, 2016 13:46:00 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 24, 2016 13:46:00 GMT -5
Moncada certainly seems more likely to be a decent defensive 3B than Sam Travis. I'm not doubting that. Just trying to find a good position to justify Tavis' hitting approach. The odds are against Travis as a 6 foot right handed first baseman with minimal power. If he were a third baseman, it would be a completely different story.
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