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Our American League East Rivals
steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 13, 2012 19:37:21 GMT -5
Our American League East rivals have some really interesting decisions to make also this off-season. It’s not only us!
Since our future is tied in to what the Hankees, Orioles, Jays, and Rays do…..I thought it would be interesting to look at what and where they may go heading into 2013 and beyond. For us to get to the “promise land” we have to be better than, at least, 3 of these teams (maybe all 4).
I will start with mine and your favorite team……the New York Yankees. Thank goodness they are getting old. It would be really helpful if they all hit 90 mph fastballs down the middle like Arod, but they don’t. Bet they wish they could interest LA in taking him off their hands also. The following are their free agents after the World Series. Lots of age.
Eric Chavez (35) Ichiro Suzuki (39) Raul Ibanez (41) Russell Martin (30) Andruw Jones (36) Curtis Granderson (32) - $15MM club option with a $2MM buyout Nick Swisher (32) Freddy Garcia (37) Hiroki Kuroda (38) Mariano Rivera (43) Derek Lowe (40) Rafael Soriano (33) - $14MM player option or a $1.5MM buyout Pedro Feliciano (35) - $4.5MM club option Andy Pettitte 41 in June
If they aren’t the oldest team in MLB, it would be surprising. It will be interesting to see if the Yankees decide to hold on to Granderson and/or Swisher. I doubt both. Rivera can come back forever as far as NY is concerned. Russell Martin, to me, is very interesting. He does a good job behind the plate, has some pop, and seems to handle their staff well. Feliciano is gone as is Lowe. Soriano is a hard one for a potential middle-reliever is overpaid.
Without resigning Kuroda, if that’s what happens, their rotation looks like….
Phil Hughes Andy Pettitte CC Sabathia Ivan Nova David Phelps Michael Pineda
They will almost certainly sign another starter for depth. Hughes and Nova, although talented, are inconsistent. Pineda may not be ready, and Phelps may not be an answer. Their catcher of the future is… Austin Romine Maybe it is his time.
Robinson Cano needs to be extended. Derek Jeter is 39 in June (how long can he keep doing it?) Alex Rodriguez is 38 in July (poster boy for BAD long-term contracts) Mark Teixeira is 33 in April (he seems older) Curtis Granderson is 32 in March (extend or not?) Ichiro Suzuki is 39 (probably gone)
They get Gardner back to play left; who is in center and right? Third is looking shaky. The shortstop can’t keep playing like the Hall of Famer he is. Cano at 2nd is their best positional player by far. Tex is starting to miss time and is lacking the consistency he once had. Who is behind the plate? Bullpen is fine. Summary: small window for championships.
Free Agents in 2014 and their ages at that time: Phil Hughes (28) Derek Jeter (40) - $8MM+ player option with a $3MM buyout Joba Chamberlain (28) Rafael Soriano (34) Boone Logan (29)
Is this, and maybe next year, their best chance to win a World Championship?
Tampa Bay Rays tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 14, 2012 7:25:46 GMT -5
This blog's major goal is to make you and me feel better about our future. There is a lot of hope for 2015 and maybe earlier for the Red Sox. The other teams in our division, as you will see, are not unbeatable. They have some very difficult decisions and holes to handle this winter and next.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 14, 2012 7:39:07 GMT -5
As someone who lives next to the Tampa Bay area in Bradenton, I have always admired the grit of every player who puts on that Ray’s uniform. Over the last week or so we have been discussing the overall importance of the manager. I truly believe Joe Maddon is worth his (considerable) weight in gold. How he and his coaching staff (especially Jim Hickey) get so much out of their guys is a mystery to me. Year after year they bring in players who are back-up players, middle-relievers, and misfits who all of a sudden perform better. Farnsworth a consistent closer? Rodney somehow obtains consistency and command of all of his pitches? Jason Bartlett plays like an all-star for 2 years? Jeff Keppinger becomes a .320 hitter? Of course their starting rotation is the envy of all of baseball, but somehow they stitch together a line-up ever year that plays with confidence and a bullpen that closes the door. I can’t wait until Longoria, and David Price, price themselves out of St Petersburg.
The Rays free agents this winter are…..
Jose Molina (37) - $1.5MM club option with a $300K buyout Carlos Pena (35) Jeff Keppinger (33) B.J. Upton (28) Luke Scott (35) - $6MM club option with a $1MM buyout James Shields (31) - $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout Fernando Rodney (36) - $2.5MM club option with a $250K buyout Kyle Farnsworth (37) Joel Peralta (37) J.P. Howell (28)
They will definitely pick up Rodney’s option, and that of James Shields. I would think they will try to resign Keppinger and maybe Peralta and Howell. They have no chance of bringing Upton back, so Desmond Jennings will probably move over to center and, at least, be adequate. Scott, Pena, and Molina were disappointments and will probably not be back. If that is the case, they will need a new 1st baseman, catcher, and DH.
None of their 4 other catchers on their 40-man have shown anything special. It could be a big weakness. They made a big mistake last winter letting Jaso go to Seattle. Third is manned by Evan Longoria, one of the best players in the AL when healthy. Short is a grab-bag. Keppinger could play 2nd, and who knows who will be at first. There are no solid prospects to fill these positions. Ben Zobrist is a really solid player, whether at 2nd or in right-field. Left-field looks to be another hole to fill. Bullpen will probably be above average (as usual). Which brings us to their ridiculous rotation of…..
Shields, Price, Hellickson, and Matt Moore. Their choices for a #5 are pretty darn good also: Cobb, Archer, Wade Davis, and Jeff Niemann. This would have to be the area they could be creative and bring in a good bat. Will they? Their front office and Maddon know that their one true strength is their pitching…..especially their rotation. It is a rotation that consistently gets them into the 7th or further. BUT this year REALLY made it evident how poor their offense was. Trade a rotation member like Shields?
We would definitely be a strong player for him, or Price, if they became available. The Rays would probably rather give themselves a lobotomy than let “Big Game” Shields set up home in Boston (or New York).
The Rays are real smart. I would guess this is the year they move someone like Shields for an upgrade offensively. They have decent pitchers to plug in, and understand that eventually they will lose David Price also.
Summary: they badly need a middle-of-the-order bat and will explore the trade market strongly.
Free agents for the Tampa Bay Rays in 2014 and their corresponding age at that time:
Ben Zobrist (33) - $7MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout Ben Francisco (32)
Their window is dwindling also as key players are getting too expensive for a cash-strapped organization. Sox could be sitting pretty in 2015, and maybe earlier!
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 14, 2012 10:19:22 GMT -5
Signed, every Red Sox fan every year for the past ten years.
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Post by jmei on Oct 14, 2012 10:32:50 GMT -5
I appreciate the analysis, Steve. Good stuff so far.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 14, 2012 11:10:33 GMT -5
Going into this I thought this team was a fluke......
Oh those O’s!! Who ever said they saw the success of the Baltimore Orioles happening this year probably still believes in Santa Claus. Buck Showalter sure got a lot out of his 2012 team. They battled right down to the wire with the Yankees and were just one big blow away from being in the American League Championship. Wow!
This was a team that had a negative run differential, a poor rotation, and struck out a great deal. This was a team that won many one run games and many extra-inning games. Both of those situations will probably be impossible to duplicate next season. But you have to give Buck and his Buccaneers a lot of credit by ALWAYS believing they could come back in each and every game. Are you listening Ben Cherington? They were a gritty bunch who hustled for Showalter during Spring Training and for a whole season. Great story!
They really don’t have much to worry about with respect to their free agents this off-season. Here is their list:
Jim Thome (42 Randy Wolf (36) Luis Ayala (35) Joe Saunders (32)
None of those guys, except maybe Saunders, will be missed. Depending how the Oriole front office perceives their 2013 rotation, they may attempt to extend Saunders. Their rotation is made up of…..
Chris Tillman (24) Zach Britton (25) Jason Hammel (30) Miguel Gonzalez (28) Tommy Hunter (26) Wei-Yin Chen (27) Jake Arrieta (26) Brian Matusz (25) And maybe the latest phenom…..Dylan Bundy (20)
This area will be their greatest hope and maybe their biggest concern. Tillman looks like the real thing. Reminds me of a young Jim Palmer physically. Britton has great potential, but has had problems staying healthy. Chen and Hammel were revelations. And Bundy may someday be an ace. Their rotation is young and talented, but is still a question mark. As their rotation goes next year, I believe their success (or failure) will follow.
Surprisingly, their bullpen was very strong this year. Strop had a good year and Jim Johnson was literally amazing and consistent as their closer. Patton and O’Day were good also.
Their line-up: Mark Reynolds (29) - 1st base Robert Andino (28) - 2nd base J.J. Hardy (30) - short Manny Machado (20) - 3rd base (short someday) Chris Davis (26) - left-field Adam Jones (27) - center-field Nick Markakis (29) - right-field Matt Wieters (26) - catcher
Is very young and just coming into their primes. Jones and Wieters are already All_Stars and Nick Markakis is a very solid player in right. Machado could be a star!
Summary: To me, this team could be a strong challenger for a while. Their staff and line-up need to do it AGAIN for me to totally buy in, but they have youth, some money to throw at a free agent or two, and Buck Showalter. Here are their potential free agents for 2014 and their ages at that time:
Mark Reynolds (30) Brian Roberts (36) Jason Hammel (31)
Do you buy them being contenders again next year?
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Post by gatortough on Oct 14, 2012 11:33:26 GMT -5
Great stuff Steve. I don't know about next year, although it's possible, but certainly the year after. It's amazing what two players (Machado and Bundy) can do to bring legitimacy to an entire team. And by legitimacy I mean they go from possible contenders or potential spoilers to a team that should be feared. They are younger than I realized and look like they are set up well for the next few seasons, especially if Britton puts it all together and Bundy stays on track. As if the MFY and Rays weren't enough to worry about...
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 14, 2012 12:26:42 GMT -5
Signed, every Red Sox fan every year for the past ten years. ...and for the fifty years before that. I know. I've lived that long. The Yankees have done so much re-loading over the years with 30-36 year-old guys that they always seem to be on the verge of "crossing over"....Usually that hope evaporates as they replenish somehow. You have to hand it to them this year with Ichiro, Chavez (holdover), Ibanez, Nix, Kuroda. That is a pretty fair group. All those guys except perhaps Chavez might be back. Some decade Mariano will lose his effectiveness (but maybe not this one). Petitte seems equally indestructible. Lowe, Garcia, Jones & Feliciano are inter-changeable and won't be back. Logan, Hughes, Chamberlain (they have to be tired of his act) and perhaps "the Grandy Man" may be moved...altho it is hard to see him doing as much offensive damage elsewhere as he does in N.Y. Kuroda re-ups as does "Swishalicious". Soriano, off this season, has to return but at bigger dollars as you note. Cano & Granderson (if not traded) stand to 'cash' in. I have no idea how the Yankees will get to the 189M threshold. Of the regulars only A-Rod & Jeter are terribly old. Jeter has a great body and takes care of himself. If they can move Granderson, I could see them making a play for Hamilton. Pineda is currently an unknown, so maybe they try for Greinke too. He would not be required to be 'the man' in N.Y. taking some pressure off. There does not seem to be much close in their minors. I am not sold on Romine. He seemingly has stalled. I think the Yankees will try to ride Jeter & A-Rod into the sunset by doing business as usual in the Bronx. The Yankees have won the American League East 13 of the last 17 seasons. Sadly, there is little reason to think that they will not be in the hunt again next year.
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Post by remember04 on Oct 14, 2012 12:39:08 GMT -5
Calling it now that the Rays will either get James Loney or Ike Davis for first and possibly Sweeney for the outfield and whichever former sox player they get will turn into Carlos Pena 2.0.
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Post by remember04 on Oct 14, 2012 12:52:04 GMT -5
Signed, every Red Sox fan every year for the past ten years. ...and for the fifty years before that. I know. I've lived that long. The Yankees have done so much re-loading over the years with 30-36 year-old guys that they always seem to be on the verge of "crossing over"....Usually that hope evaporates as they replenish somehow. You have to hand it to them this year with Ichiro, Chavez (holdover), Ibanez, Nix, Kuroda. That is a pretty fair group. All those guys except perhaps Chavez might be back. Some decade Mariano will lose his effectiveness (but maybe not this one). Petitte seems equally indestructible. Lowe, Garcia, Jones & Feliciano are inter-changeable and won't be back. Logan, Hughes, Chamberlain (they have to be tired of his act) and perhaps "the Grandy Man" may be moved...altho it is hard to see him doing as much offensive damage elsewhere as he does in N.Y. Kuroda re-ups as does "Swishalicious". Soriano, off this season, has to return but at bigger dollars as you note. Cano & Granderson (if not traded) stand to 'cash' in. I have no idea how the Yankees will get to the 189M threshold. Of the regulars only A-Rod & Jeter are terribly old. Jeter has a great body and takes care of himself. If they can move Granderson, I could see them making a play for Hamilton. Pineda is currently an unknown, so maybe they try for Greinke too. He would not be required to be 'the man' in N.Y. taking some pressure off. There does not seem to be much close in their minors. I am not sold on Romine. He seemingly has stalled. I think the Yankees will try to ride Jeter & A-Rod into the sunset by doing business as usual in the Bronx. The Yankees have won the American League East 13 of the last 17 seasons. Sadly, there is little reason to think that they will not be in the hunt again next year. Two things that give me future hope for the yankees actually getting old this time around are the fact that the steroid era is behind us so these players are more likely to play their age and the fact that with the pseudo salary cap in place they can't just buy their way out of trouble anymore.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 14, 2012 13:42:53 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I hate the new CBA, but it MAY actually hurt the high spending Yankees the most. They always love the new baubles, but how in earth can they get to the $189K. You've just got to love the "anchor" formally known as AROD and his $29,000,000 he is paid each year. Even for the Yanks, this is a true albatross for them. It WILL hurt them going forward!
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 14, 2012 14:26:59 GMT -5
As surprisingly good as the Orioles were……the Toronto Blue Jays were surprisingly bad…..although you have to give them somewhat of a pass for the many injuries that occurred (sound familiar?). Of course many of us are interested in the next career move for one John Farrell. Some of us just adore him and some of us can’t see the fuss. There is still the possibility that he may be our next manager. The Jays came into 2012 with high hopes, and were decimated by injuries to 3 starters in their rotation, other role players, and (importantly) Jose Bautista. The Jays’ free agents for this year are: Kelly Johnson (31) Carlos Villanueva (29) Jason Frasor (35) Brandon Lyon (33) Darren Oliver (42) - $3MM club option with a $500K buyout Omar Vizquel (45) – retiring Not a lot of talent they are losing, but they may attempt to re-sign Johnson, Villanueva, and Frasor. Oliver is seriously considering retirement also. Their line-up for 2013 tentatively is: J.P. Arencibia (27) – catcher Adam Lind (29) – 1st base ? – 2nd base Yunel Escobar (30) or Adeiny Hechavarria (24) – shortstop Lawrie at 3rd base is a true keeper at just 23 this January Bautista (32) is outstanding in right Rasmus (26) looks like the light-bulb came on this year Rajai Davis (32) is OK in left, but nothing special The DH is manned by Edwin Encarnacion (30 in January) – can he repeat this year? The line-up can produce runs and rather quickly some days with the power they possess. Not a lot of speed or patience. The rotation was decimated this year and was a big factor in sinking their season. The rotation will be made up of: Henderson Alvarez (22) Kyle Drabek (25) Drew Hutchinson (22) Brandon Morrow (28) Ricky Romero (28) and maybe Dustin McGowan (30) J.A. Happ (30) Brett Cecil (26) Lots of doubt going into next season. Their most consistent starter probably was Carlos Villanueva and he is a free agent and probably NOT coming back. There is potential and lots of youth. Ricky Romero had a bad season and it seems no one knows why. His come-back is crucial to the Jays having a better season. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Jays sign at least one veteran starter this off-season. Their bullpen will probably need quite a bit of shoring-up this off-season. Trades or free agents possible. In Summary: The Jays will score runs if healthy, but the 2013 season and future our heavily tied into their young starters. If they come back healthy, they may surprise their foes, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Free agents in 2014 and their ages at that time: Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout Yunel Escobar (31) - $5MM club option
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Post by remember04 on Oct 14, 2012 18:40:56 GMT -5
Is anybody else shocked that Lyon is only 33 and Encarnacion is only 30?
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Post by soxin8 on Oct 17, 2012 1:28:55 GMT -5
Steve, I was actually thinking of writing the exact same thread and was going to say all the same things you did about NY, but you did a better job than I would have. Something else worth noting is the state of the farms for each club.While not a perfect tool to measure, it is worth looking at the league top 20 lists. Boston was one of 5 teams with14 players. Toronto and TB had 13, NY 5, and Baltimore 4.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Oct 17, 2012 6:54:52 GMT -5
One thing about the Orioles that impresses me is how strong they are up the middle. Wieters is outstanding defensively. He eliminates your running game. Hardy is a good shortstop. They have an even better one in the wings Machado. Adam Jones is an outstanding CF. If they can get a decent lh bat to DH. That balances their offense out more. They didn't have a negative run differential. They were plus 7. I think they were around minus 50 at the halfway point. The team that finished the season isn't a fluke. Their pitching came around and look what happened. It wouldn't be an impossibility that their pitching actually improves. It won't make up for their drop in 1 run games that's going to come. It will keep them over .500 though and prob 86-88 wins.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 17, 2012 7:12:14 GMT -5
One thing about the Orioles that impresses me is how strong they are up the middle. Wieters is outstanding defensively. He eliminates your running game. Hardy is a good shortstop. They have an even better one in the wings Machado. Adam Jones is an outstanding CF. If they can get a decent lh bat to DH. That balances their offense out more. They didn't have a negative run differential. They were plus 7. I think they were around minus 50 at the halfway point. The team that finished the season isn't a fluke. Their pitching came around and look what happened. It wouldn't be an impossibility that their pitching actually improves. It won't make up for their drop in 1 run games that's going to come. It will keep them over .500 though and prob 86-88 wins. You know Greg, when I started writing this post I was sure it would be the same old teams we would be competing against for the next 3 to 5 years. I've actually been guilty of down-playing the Orioles in my mind. After doing this exercise, the O's may be the real problem for us. We all keep saying the Yankees are getting old and their turn to fail is coming. I would say with the new CBA and Boss Junior insisting to get under it, it will happen to some degree over the next few years. Their "warts" are showing even now. The Ray's system has always intrigued me, but their financial situation is quite real, and eventually their stars like Longoria, Price, and Shields will be leaving creating a huge void. I do believe, at least, by 2015 we can be back on top if we play are cards correctly. Thank you soxin8 for the complement!
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Oct 17, 2012 7:23:33 GMT -5
I looked the O's record up at the half-way point. They were 44-37 and -26. Not quite 50 like I said earlier. But, a plus 33 in the 2nd half is good. If Dylan Bundy develops into a Verlander or Strasburg like pitcher. They will really be really tough. They might have 5 cornerstone players; Jones - CF, Machado - SS, Wieters - C, Markakis - RF and Davis - 1b. The others should be pretty easy to fill. LF, 3B and 2b. As always, the key will be how their young arms develop.
The key with the Yankees is the luxury threshold. If they don't go over it. I don't know what the heck they're going to do. Can't buy A-Rod out. The amount of his salary you pay still counts against you. They'll lose Swisher this year. Granderson after next season. Have a diminishing A-Rod at 3b. What's the deal with Teixeira? He's become an all or nothing hitter. I don't remember him being that. A switch-hitting Mark Reynolds who makes 23m per year. Is Jeter capable of playing up to his 2012 season again?
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 17, 2012 9:32:45 GMT -5
I know I do not have enough digits on my hands or feet to account for every time we thought we could finally say the Yanks are too old and this will be the year they self-destruct, but this year feels different.
Joe Girardi did a great job keeping them together and focused (well maybe not with Arod). But really, other than Cano, who is a sure thing next season for their positional players? They are the Yankees and they do have a lot of money, but it sure looks like no team is going to want to exceed that $189K figure in 2014. The penalties are too great. Arod's $30 million per sure hurts them a lot. Cano will have to be extended close to $20 million per year himself. Just those 2 gentleman will reduce the $189K figure down to $139K. Sabathia of course is well worth it, but that further reduces their flexibility.
I just can't see them maintaining their perch. But I have been wrong before, and so have many other Yankee critics down through the years.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 22, 2012 7:19:26 GMT -5
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Post by fdrnewdeal on Oct 22, 2012 7:47:13 GMT -5
Read more: www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/madden-yanks-younger-tougher-article-1.1188461?pgno=1#ixzz2A1yMqrzLFrom the article: "For what was also made clear in the ALCS is Yankee fans don’t like this team as presently constituted. There is a yearning for more homegrown players like Eduardo Nunez, about the only position player who looked like he came to the play in the ALCS." As a Sox fan, I also yearn for more homegrown players like Eduardo Nunez to take on prominent positions with NY. All kidding aside, we saw just in 2011, how a pitching rich system can be fail to meet expectations. Pitcher attrition is a bear. Thankfully we also had the offensive breakouts of Xander, Brentz, Lavarnway, Jacobs, Coyle, and Cecchini to offset the lost seasons of Britton and Pimentel. NY didn't have the same silver lining, but Mason Williams, Gary Sanchez and Austin are all excellent prospects. All three would certainly be in Boston's top ten, Sanchez with possibly cracking the number 2 spot (depending on how you value Barnes, Bradley and Webster). They aren't exactly deep, but I would not feel bad for the Yankees, yet.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 22, 2012 10:29:48 GMT -5
Thanks for the excellent overview. I mentioned a few years back, after they'd ripped off the Mariners by getting Jones and Tillman for Eric Bedard, that the Orioles were on their way and so they are. They've only cemented that with Machado and Bundy. Going forward, I think they're the real competition in the AL East. This year may have been built around a bit of luck, but I think they're for real. It's all about young talented pitchers and they have a few of them. The Sox, with Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa, as well as Owens, Workman, Britton... seem, at the very least, to have gotten the memo. This quote from Madden's piece on the Yankees I found interesting: ...this Yankee team, bloated with age and salary, and heading in the same downward spiral as the arch-rival Red Sox. Left unsaid is that the Sox seem to have reversed themselves in Internet time thanks to the Punto trade. Entirely possible that next year, at some point, we'll see a lineup that includes Lavarnaway, Middlebrooks, Iglesias, Sands, Brentz, and Bradley along with, say, De La Rosa on the rubber. While that may not get them into the playoffs just yet, I think it will get them a long way down the road to that and more. NYs future looks a little more foreboding. I haven't a clue how they can get get rid of the Rod. Even if they did they'd probably still have to carry the bulk of his salary. To me Toronto is a continuing enigma (they should be better than they are), and Tampa Bay the joker in the deck (they are always better than they seem to be). Again, thanks for all the work.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 22, 2012 10:40:44 GMT -5
Thanks Norm! Yeah, the Orioles do have the potential to have a "run". They were very fortunate this past season, but they now have "play off" experience.
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