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2014 Season End Rankings Voting
alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 639
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Post by alnipper on Sept 10, 2014 16:08:37 GMT -5
alnipper, 23. Hembree - Not eligible 33. Acosta - Chris, right? Yes, Chris Acosta
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 10, 2014 17:34:47 GMT -5
brinefly
30. Acosta
Chris?
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Post by soxfanatic on Sept 11, 2014 7:06:38 GMT -5
Mookie Betts Blake Swihart Henry Owens Rafael Devers Eduardo Rodriguez Brian Johnson Manuel Margot Matt Barnes Garin Cecchini Michael Chavis
Trey Ball Anthony Ranaudo Sean Coyle Deven Marrero Edwin Escobar Michael Kopech Wendell Rijo Nick Longhi Sam Travis Carlos Asuaje
Teddy Stankiewicz Travis Shaw Javier Guerra Luis Diaz Justin Haley Mauricio Dubon Simon Mercedes Jake Cosart Henry Ramos Alex Hassan
Anderson Espinoza German Taveras Chris Acosta Bryce Brentz Steven Wright Jamie Callahan Heath Hembree Jhonathan Diaz Danny Mars Noe Ramirez
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Post by jabliss on Sept 11, 2014 12:25:31 GMT -5
1. Mookie Betts 2. Blake Swihart 3. Rafael Devers 4. Henry Owens 5. Eduardo Rodriguez 6. Manuel Margot 7. Matt Barnes 8. Brian Johnson 9. Michael Chavis 10. Trey Ball
11. Garin Cecchini 12. Anthony Ranaudo 13. Michael Kopech 14. Edwin Escobar 15. Wendell Rijo 16. Sam Travis 17. Deven Marrero 18. Sean Coyle 19. Teddy Stankiewicz 20. Nick Longhi
21. Simon Mercedes 22. Luis Diaz 23. Henry Ramos 24. Alex Hassan 25. Bryce Brentz 26. Heath Hembree 27. Anderson Espinoza 28. Chris Acosta 29. Javier Guerra 30. Travis Shaw
31. Steven Wright 32. Noe Ramirez 33. Carlos Asuaje 34. Jamie Callahan 35. Jonathan Aro 36. Joe Gunkel 37. Jake Cosart 38. Jhonathan Diaz 39. Justin Haley 40. Cody Kukuk
41. Josh Ockimey
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pd
Veteran
Posts: 327
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Post by pd on Sept 11, 2014 15:32:40 GMT -5
1. M. Betts 2. H. Owens 3. B. Swihart 4. M. Barnes 5. E. Rodriguez 6. B. Johnson 7. M. Margot 8. R. Devers 9. M. Chavis 10. A. Ranaudo
11. S. Coyle 12. T. Ball 13. D. Marrero 14. T. Stankiewicz 15. G. Cecchini 16. T. Shaw 17. E. Escobar 18. W. Rijo 19. S. Travis 20. C. Asuaje
21. S. Wright 22. J. Guerra 23. M. Kopech 24. J. Haley 25. N. Longhi 26. L. Diaz 27. M. Dubon 28. H. Ramos 29. A. Hassan 30. B. Brentz
31. N. Ramirez 32. R. Scott 33. A. Espinoza 34. C. Acosta 35. J. Witte 36. J. Cosart 37. Jh. Diaz 38. C. Kukuk 39. H. Hembree 40. G. Spier
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 12, 2014 4:37:00 GMT -5
1. Betts 2. Swihart (I would have slotted Vazquez here)
3. Owens 4. Johnson 5. Rodriguez 6. Margot
7. Chavis 8. Devers 9. Barnes 10. Ranaudo 11. Marrero 12. Cecchini
13. Ball 14. Kopech 15. Coyle 16. Escobar 17. Luis Diaz 18. Stankiewicz 19. Guerra
20. Travis 21. Asuaje 22. Blair 23. Rijo 24. Shaw 25. Ramos 26. Haley 27. Noe Ramirez
28. Jhonathan Diaz 29. Dubon 30. Longhi 31. V. Acosta (2B) 32. Kurcz 33. Cellestino 34. Hembree 35. Espinoza 36. Wright 37. Kukuk 38. C. Acosta (P) 39. Mercedes 40. Whitson
41* Cosart
First take, subject to change. Some tough decisions on who didn't make it (particularly Mars, Hassan, Brentz, Luis Alex. Basabe (CF), Cosart).
I segregated by my perceived tiers. Tier 2 is the closest, I could on any given day come up with any order for Owens, Johnson, Rodriguez and Margot including a complete reversal.
Changes: forgot about two relievers, Cellestino and Kurcz.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,027
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 13, 2014 7:46:37 GMT -5
1. Mookie Betts 2. Blake Swihart 3. Henry Owens 4. Matt Barnes 5. Manuel Margot 6. Rafael Devers 7. Eduardo Rodriguez 8. Steven Wright. Yes, Steven Wright. 9. Garin Cecchini 10. Brian Johnson 11. Sean Coyle 12. Michael Chavis 13. Deven Marrero 14. Edwin Escobar 15. Anthony Ranaudo 16. Trey Ball 17. Wendell Rijo 18. Michael Kopech 19. Carlos Asauje 20. Tommy Layne 21. Alex Hassan 22. Henry Ramos 23. Bryce Brentz 24. Aaron Kurcz 25. Anderson Espinoza 26. Travis Shaw 27. Simon Mercedes 28. Teddy Stankiewicz 29. Carson Blair 30. Sam Travis 31. Drake Britton 32. Noe Ramirez 33. Nick Longhi 34. Cody Kukuk 35. Heath Hembree 36. Keith Couch 37. Danny Mars 38. Ryan Verdugo 39. Derrik Gibson 40. Dalier Hinojosa 41. Christopher Acosta
Edit: moved Rodriguez up from 9 to 7 after the SP team posted their rankings, a change not reflected (nor should it have been) in the community rankings. Somehow I forgot how much better he pitched after the trade, which is precisely the sort of thing I sometimes put more stock in then others!
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Post by tomricardo on Sept 18, 2014 9:30:19 GMT -5
1. Mookie Betts 2. Blake Swihart 3. Henry Owens 4. Brian Johnson 5. Eduardo Rodriguez 6. Rafael Devers 7. Matt Barnes 8. Manuel Margot 9. Anthony Ranaudo 10. Sean Coyle
11. Trey Ball 12. Michael Chavis 13. Garin Cecchini 14. Edwin Escobar 15. Wendell Rijo 16. Sam Travis 17. Deven Marrero 18. Alex Hassan 19. Teddy Stankiewicz 20. Henry Ramos
21. Travis Shaw 22. Luis Diaz 23. Heath Hembree 24. Carlos Asuaje 25. Bryce Brentz 26. Michael Kopech 27. Jake Cosart 28. Nick Longhi 29. Steven Wright 30. Anderson Espinoza
31. Javier Guerra 32. Carson Blair 33. Simon Mercedes 34. Chris Acosta 35. Jonathan Aro 36. Noe Ramirez 37. Jamie Callahan 38. Jhonathan Diaz 39. Justin Haley 40. Keury De La Cruz
41. Josh Ockimey
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Post by jmei on Sept 19, 2014 9:06:07 GMT -5
1. Mookie Betts 2. Blake Swihart 3. Henry Owens 4. Manuel Margot 5. Eduardo Rodriguez
6. Matt Barnes 7. Brian Johnson 8. Rafael Devers 9. Michael Chavis 10. Deven Marrero
11. Garin Cecchini 12. Trey Ball 13. Anthony Ranaudo 14. Sean Coyle 15. Wendell Rijo
16. Edwin Escobar 17. Steven Wright 18. Michael Kopech 19. Teddy Stankiewicz 20. Alex Hassan
21. Bryce Brentz 22. Javier Guerra 23. Travis Shaw 24. Henry Ramos 25. Carlos Asuaje
26. Simon Mercedes 27. Sam Travis 28. Nick Longhi 29. Justin Haley 30. Cody Kukuk
31. Anderson Espinoza 32. Christopher Acosta 33. Heath Hembree 34. Noe Ramirez 35. Dan Butler
36. Luis Diaz 37. Mauricio Dubon 38. Jake Cosart 39. Dalier Hinojosa 40. Jamie Callahan
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 20, 2014 13:02:11 GMT -5
Full details on the voting are here.
Short version: here are the players and their rankings by the SP Community: Mookie Betts 1 Blake Swihart 2 Henry Owens 3 Manuel Margot 4 Eduardo Rodriguez 5 Rafael Devers 6 Matt Barnes 7 Brian Johnson 8 Michael Chavis 9 Garin Cecchini 10 Anthony Ranaudo 11 Trey Ball 12 Sean Coyle 13 Deven Marrero 13 Edwin Escobar 15 Michael Kopech 16 Sam Travis 17 Wendell Rijo 18 Teddy Stankiewicz 19 Nick Longhi 20 Carlos Asuaje 21 Travis Shaw 22 Henry Ramos DL 23 Bryce Brentz 24 Simon Mercedes 25 Luis Diaz 26 Steven Wright 27 Javier Guerra 28 Anderson Espinoza 29 Mauricio Dubon 30 Justin Haley 31 Jake Cosart 32 Heath Hembree 33 Christopher Acosta 34 Noe Ramirez 35 Alex Hassan 36 Cody Kukuk 37 Jhonathan Diaz 38 Tommy Layne 39 Danny Mars 39 Joe Gunkel DL 41 Jamie Callahan 41 Carson Blair 43 Victor Acosta 44 Dalier Hinojosa 45 Aaron Kurcz 46 Dan Butler 47 Keury De La Cruz 48 Pat Light 49 Drake Britton 50 Reed Gragnani 51 Jantzen Witte 51 Keith Couch 53 Derrik Gibson 54 Yoan Aybar 55 Kevin McAvoy 56 Jonathan Aro 57 Raymel Flores 58 Enmanuel DeJesus 58 Gabe Speier 60 Josh Ockimey 61 Myles Smith 62 Cole Sturgeon 63 German Taveras 64 Robby Scott 64 Miguel Celestino 66 Alixon Suarez 67 Tzu-Wei Lin 68 Joseph Monge 69 Williams Jerez 70 Aneury Tavarez 70 Ryan Verdugo 70 Jose Almonte 73 Trenton Kemp 73 Karsten Whitson 75 Ty Buttrey 75 Daniel Gonzalez 75 Luis Alexander Basabe 78 Jordan Betts 78
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 20, 2014 13:03:12 GMT -5
He's going to be 1 on almost every list so it really doesn't change anything whether he's there or not. Corrected.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,027
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 22, 2014 2:37:34 GMT -5
Incredible kudos to dd for going to the heroic labors to compile and crunch the data.
There is, however, a flaw in the way the rankings were generated. The question is, how do you deal with guys who were omitted from a ballot?
There were 79 players who got votes, but each ballot consisted of just 40 or 41 names and hence 39 or 38 blank spots. In order to generate an average ranking, you need to insert an invented number into the blank spots. (The very clever way dd did this, without making it visible, is to format that number as white!)
What should that number be? If each ballot had 38 or 39 unranked players, then the average unranked player would be 40 + middle of 39 players, i.e. 20 = 60, or 41 + middle of 38 players, i.e. 19.5 = 60.5. Call it 60.
Alas, dd used 79, which doesn't work. That creates far too great a penalty for not ranking a guy. supersquid left Rijo off his ballot, but there's no way he thinks Rijo is the #79 prospect. (In fact, it's likely that he thinks he's somewhere better than our in-a-vacuum guess of 60, but we'll get to that in a moment.)
As a result, Rijo is shown as being behind Sam Travis. Travis was ranked on every ballot, averaging 20.3. Rijo was ranked on every ballot but one, averaging 17.3. Everyone else had Rijo ahead of Travis, 17.3 to 20.5, but supersquid had Travis 16 and Rijo unranked. We don't know where ss would have ranked Rijo, but as long as it was 77th or better, Rijo is ahead on average ranking.
So, you can substitute an invisible 60 for all the invisible 79s in dd's spreadsheet and get a corrected ranking.
But I think you can go further. It seems likely that the unranked players on any ballot roughly follow the consensus order of everyone else. It's not going to follow it exactly, but it's going to skew in that direction. So the way I like to do such rankings is to split the difference between assuming that the unranked players followed the consensus exactly, and that there was no pattern at all, and so substitute (41 + 60)/2 for the highest-rated unranked player on a 40-person ballot, (42 + 60)/2 for the second highest-rated unranked player, and so on.
Here are the changes that result, from both the corrected method and the extra-tweaked method.
17 and 18. Rijo is ahead of Travis, as he is in the SP rankings.
20 and 21. Asauje is ahead of Longhi, ditto.
24 through 27. This was originally Brentz, Mercedes, Diaz, Wright. The simple correction makes that Wright, Mercedes, Brentz, Diaz, while the tweaked one makes it Wright, Mercedes, Diaz, Brentz, which is how SP has it.
32 through 38. This gets quite re-arranged, with both the corrected and tweaked version much more resembling SP's.
Orig Correct Tweaked SP Haley Hembree Hassan Hassan Cosart Haley Hembree Hembree Hembree Hassan Haley Ramirez Acosta Cosart Cosart Acosta Ramirez Acosta Kukuk Cosart Hassan Ramirez Acosta Haley Kukuk Kukuk Ramirez Kukuk
45 and 46. In the tweaked version only, Kurcz is ahead of Hinojosa.
If dd messages me with his e-mail address, I'll send him a spreadsheet with the revised number crunching, and let him choose between the simple and tweaked correction (but I rather like the latter).
Oh, and dd's spreadsheet uses the previous SP rankings. They can of course be replaced with the current ones with everyone +1 to include Betts.
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 22, 2014 11:25:56 GMT -5
Thanks, Eric. I'll send you my email address.
I'm not very knowledgeable about statistics (I squeaked by the mandatory courses in college and even that was a LONG time ago.)
In relooking at the data I found that I made a mistake in how I calculated that default value, but if I'd done it the intended way it would have exaggerated the effect. This was based on some guidance Mike gave me a few years ago when I first did this, but I'm thinking now that I may have misinterpreted that.
Since whatever methodology we use is likely to be used in the future, I'd like to hear from Mike and the rest of the staff on their thoughts.
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Post by Mike Andrews on Sept 22, 2014 12:31:50 GMT -5
I have traditionally given a default value in the 45 to 48 range. I actually think 60 is a little high and too punitive.
Maybe 48?
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 23, 2014 7:44:11 GMT -5
I have traditionally given a default value in the 45 to 48 range. I actually think 60 is a little high and too punitive. Maybe 48? The list below is a revised ranking using a default of 48. The second number is the original ranking I gave. Players who changed are highlighted. The top 16 players were on every ballot so there were no changes in that group. Below that 22 players (excluding those who weren't top 60 on either list) changed a bit. All the changes were 1 or 2 positions except Steven Wright (27 up to 24), Alex Hassen (36 to 29). and Myles Smith (62 to 58). Gabe Speir fell out of the top 60 (from 60 to 62). Mookie Betts 1 1 Blake Swihart 2 2 Henry Owens 3 3 Manuel Margot 4 4 Eduardo Rodriguez 5 5 Rafael Devers 6 6 Matt Barnes 7 7 Brian Johnson 8 8 Michael Chavis 9 9 Garin Cecchini 10 10 Anthony Ranaudo 11 11 Trey Ball 12 12 Deven Marrero 13 13 Sean Coyle 13 13 Edwin Escobar 15 15 Michael Kopech 16 16 Wendell Rijo 17 18 Sam Travis 18 17
Teddy Stankiewicz 19 19 Carlos Asuaje 20 21
Nick Longhi 21 20
Travis Shaw 22 22 Henry Ramos 23 23 Steven Wright 24 27
Simon Mercedes 25 25 Luis Diaz 26 26 Bryce Brentz 27 24 Javier Guerra 28 28 Anderson Espinoza 29 29 Alex Hassan 29 36
Mauricio Dubon 31 30 Heath Hembree 31 33 Justin Haley 33 31 Jake Cosart 34 32 Cody Kukuk 35 37
Christopher Acosta 36 34 Noe Ramirez 37 35 Tommy Layne 38 39 Jhonathan Diaz 39 38 Danny Mars 40 39
Jamie Callahan 41 41 Joe Gunkel 41 41 Carson Blair 41 43
Victor Acosta 44 44 Aaron Kurcz 45 46
Dan Butler 46 47
Dalier Hinojosa 47 45 Keury De La Cruz 48 48 Pat Light 49 49 Drake Britton 50 50 Jantzen Witte 51 51 Reed Gragnani 51 51 Keith Couch 53 53 Derrik Gibson 54 54 Yoan Aybar 55 55 Kevin McAvoy 56 56 Jonathan Aro 57 57 Myles Smith 58 62 Enmanuel DeJesus 59 58 Raymel Flores 59 58
Gabe Speier 62 60
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 23, 2014 8:39:17 GMT -5
Thank god we got that sorted out.
Seriously, thanks for your work on this, as always, Double D. And thanks for your suggestion, Eric.
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Post by Mike Andrews on Sept 23, 2014 8:48:27 GMT -5
DD - who was 61 under the new system?
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 23, 2014 11:29:29 GMT -5
DD - who was 61 under the new system? Cole Sturgeeon. Here are 61 - 78, new & old rankings: Cole Sturgeon 61 63 Gabe Speier 62 60 German Taveras 62 64 Robby Scott 62 64 Miguel Celestino 65 66 Josh Ockimey 66 61 Alixon Suarez 67 67 Tzu-Wei Lin 68 68 Joseph Monge 69 69 Aneury Tavarez 70 70 Ryan Verdugo 70 70 Williams Jerez 70 70 Jose Almonte 73 73 Trenton Kemp 73 73 Daniel Gonzalez 75 75 Karsten Whitson 75 75 Ty Buttrey 75 75 Jordan Betts 78 78 Luis Alexander Basabe 78 78
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Sept 23, 2014 11:43:30 GMT -5
The final (I hope) version is here. Thanks, Eric.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 9,027
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Post by ericmvan on Oct 11, 2014 6:02:50 GMT -5
Glad folks found that helpful!
I find these collective rankings to be fascinating. I actually messed around with the individual rankings and may come back here to report on that. IIRC, there was a correlation between number of member posts and conforming to the consensus, up to a certain point, and then it breaks down completely. IOW, the real vets tend to be iconoclastic, but if you exclude them, there is a tendency for the more experienced posters to think more like one another. All of that makes perfect sense if you figure than the members with the highest vote totals may also simply be more opinionated.
And I'm certainly going to compare my own ranking to the both the community and editors' consensuses, and privately tweak it. In fact, I already (after the fact, just for the record) promoted Rodriguez up two notches.
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dd
Veteran
Posts: 979
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Post by dd on Oct 11, 2014 7:44:52 GMT -5
Glad folks found that helpful! I find these collective rankings to be fascinating. I actually messed around with the individual rankings and may come back here to report on that. IIRC, there was a correlation between number of member posts and conforming to the consensus, up to a certain point, and then it breaks down completely. IOW, the real vets tend to be iconoclastic, but if you exclude them, there is a tendency for the more experienced posters to think more like one another. All of that makes perfect sense if you figure than the members with the highest vote totals may also simply be more opinionated. And I'm certainly going to compare my own ranking to the both the community and editors' consensuses, and privately tweak it. In fact, I already (after the fact, just for the record) promoted Rodriguez up two notches. "post totals", right?
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