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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 25, 2014 21:47:26 GMT -5
@mlb_nl_al: Sources tell me and @frankbostontank that Anibal Sanchez being shopped by Tigers
His contract is very fair. I think his trade value should be high, but we'll see.
If we could work a Cespedes + Johnson centered deal for him I'd be all for it. After giving up Fister for only Ray, anything can happen. I'm sure we'll explore the possibility of a trade for our old friend.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 25, 2014 22:48:05 GMT -5
Wouldn't that be something, to recover both Sanchez and Ramirez in the same offseason?
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Post by soxworld on Nov 26, 2014 3:53:04 GMT -5
As much as I'm for getting the band back together, Sanchez is another injury prone guy who is not going to get any less so. I'd also rather not block Rodriguez/Owens/Johnson from the rotation a year from now. Cespedes for Iwakuma or another #2ish starter with a year to go on his deal works better for me.
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Post by jmei on Nov 26, 2014 5:04:56 GMT -5
As much as I'm for getting the band back together, Sanchez is another injury prone guy who is not going to get any less so. I'd also rather not block Rodriguez/Owens/Johnson from the rotation a year from now. Cespedes for Iwakuma or another #2ish starter with a year to go on his deal works better for me. I would put the odds that any one of those pitchers is as good as Sanchez in 2016 at less than 50%.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 26, 2014 6:59:55 GMT -5
Someone get Jesus Delgado and Harvey Garcia on the phone.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 26, 2014 7:41:18 GMT -5
Sanchez has made the following number of starts since 2010: 32, 32 ,31, 29, 22
I'd hardly call him injury prone. He had issues early on, but he's been good the last 5 years. Of course a physical would be key to any trade.
People should understand that it's unlikely Johnson, Rodriguez and Owens ever pitch in the same major league rotation together and that's ok. This team is deep with prospects and his has a lot of MLB talent. Paying some capital to get the pieces you need is a good thing.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 26, 2014 8:50:21 GMT -5
I like him. I was all for signing him when he was a free agent and I agree that his contract is very fair.
2015 31yrs $16,800,000 2016 32yrs $16,800,000 2017 33yrs $16,800,000 2018 34yrs *$16,000,000 $16M Team Option, $5M Buyout
Workman & JBJ
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Post by larrycook on Nov 26, 2014 9:04:30 GMT -5
I like him. I was all for signing him when he was a free agent and I agree that his contract is very fair. Workman & JBJ I am not willing to give up on workman. He could be a valuable piece of our bullpen (6th and or 7th inning guy)and spot starter for the next several years.
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Post by jmei on Nov 26, 2014 9:13:06 GMT -5
I like him. I was all for signing him when he was a free agent and I agree that his contract is very fair. Workman & JBJ I am not willing to give up on workman. He could be a valuable piece of our bullpen (6th and or 7th inning guy)and spot starter for the next several years. If "giving up" on Workman means having him be a main piece in a deal for one of the best 45 or so starting pitchers in baseball, then yes, I am happy to "give up" in him. Of course, the original proposal is way, way too light, so that won't matter.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Nov 26, 2014 21:23:26 GMT -5
As much as I'm for getting the band back together, Sanchez is another injury prone guy who is not going to get any less so. I'd also rather not block Rodriguez/Owens/Johnson from the rotation a year from now. Cespedes for Iwakuma or another #2ish starter with a year to go on his deal works better for me. If the Sox are in the go for it now mode, and they well may be, then I'd agree to this. I hope they target a younger pitcher and combine Cespedes with one of Rodriguez/Owens/Johnson plus a lesser prospect perhaps a marginalized Middlebrooks, or Sean Coyle for Hamels or one of the Cincinnati pitchers Cueto or Latos.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Nov 27, 2014 12:20:06 GMT -5
Despite the fact that their farm system is atrocious, and Detroit being one of those teams I think we match up particularly well with (off the top of my head, these other teams are Cincinnati, Seattle, Miami, San Diego and of course Philadelphia if Reuben Amaro is ever replaced with a sane person), I don't think principals involving Sanchez and Cespedes make sense from Detroit's perspective. Yes, Detroit has just lost a corner OF in Hunter, so we'd love to deal Cespedes to them, however we have to think of what they could send us back in return. Plus, they already have Jackson in CF, Martinez in LF and they still have Rajai Davis and just traded their "best" prospect for a poor man's Jackie Bradley Jr in Anthony Gose (a dumb trade in my opinion, mind you, but they did it).
Right now their rotation consists of Verlander, Price, Sanchez, Porcello and the huge gaping hole where Max Scherzer used to be. With Shcerzer already being a Free Agent, and both Price and Porcello headed that way next year, I don't think there is any reason they'd trade one of their best starting pitchers who is signed on a reasonable deal and controlled for the next three years for one year of Cespedes and some fringe prospects. The only way they MIGHT consider that would be if they signed Scherzer first, and then needed to still acquire an OF bat and fill in the rest of the rotation cheaply with a plan to extend Price.
If we were to acquire Sanchez, and wanted to make Cespedes a key part of what we give up, you're thinking more along the lines of Cespedes, Owens and another "almost MLB" pitcher like Workman, Escobar, Ranaudo, etc to acquire him. Honestly, I think I'd do that deal because it's unlikely in my mind that Owens ever becomes as good as Sanchez (probably a top 45 pitcher in baseball, so call him a top tier #2 starter) but I don't think I'd give up more, and ultimately I don't think Detroit would make that deal.
All that said, a place where we'd match up with them for Cespedes would probably be Porcello who is also a free agent next year. Porcello would clearly get the QO (thus a pick) and Cespedes wouldn't, so we'd likely have to include a smaller piece to balance that out from a lesser prospect, whom if we're talking someone in the 15-20 range would likely become one of their top 3 prospects. Something like Cespedes and Rijo (currently blocked here by Pedroia, Betts and Coyle) but where Kinsler has three years left and cannot be moved to DH at any point in that time frame probably is more reasonable from their perspective.
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Post by jmei on Nov 27, 2014 13:35:44 GMT -5
I agree with the above, but wanted to note that Jackson was traded to Seattle in the Price deal. Still, Detroit would need a CF more than a corner outfielder.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 27, 2014 16:22:00 GMT -5
I agree with most of it other than Cespedes needing a sweetener. 1 year of Cespedes is more valuable than 1 year of Porcello + a comp pick. First and foremost, Porcello may accept the QO or not be worth it. He's young but he's hardly a sure thing and not a quality number two for a team with WS aspirations. He might turn out to be but he hasn't been to this point.
Cespedes might be the most valuable bat on the market. I don't think j Justin Upton is really on the market. Cruz costs a pick and comes with a long term commitment at an advanced age (probably). So who else compares? You can make an argument for Melky.
There is a lot of pitching available which brings the value down a bit. So even if you want to argue that in a vacuum Porcello is equal to Cesoedes for one year. a Porcello type is much easier to come by.
I don't know if Det wants a bat like Cesoedes but if they do and are willing to move pitching the they'd jump at a Cespedes for Porcello deal straight up. I'll be disappointed if Cespedes is dealt and the number two the Sox end up with is Porcello. It's not good enough.
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Post by bigpapismangosalsa on Nov 28, 2014 16:04:57 GMT -5
Why would we think that one year of Porcello (plus the pick) isn't worth more than one year of Cespedes without it? Over the past three years Porcello has had an average value (per Fangraphs) of $15.5M, and is still young (will be 26 next year) and conceivably about one year from entering his prime. Cespedes over that same time frame has been worth on average $14.25M and at 29 probably is what he is at this point. Even if we want to say that RH power is now scarce in the game, this would make him about equal value to Porcello, and the difference would still need to make up for the value of the comp pick.
Also, Porcello certainly could be a number 2 option for a team contending for the WS. As mentioned, he's been worth on average $15.5M the past three years. In his last two (healthy) years, Lackey has been worth $15.7M, and was in fact the number 2 starter on a team that won the World Series. Lance Lynn has been the number 2 starter for St Louis the past two years, and has been worth a very similar $17.15M over those two years. I won't bother to mention Peavy or Hudson since I'm not sure which one should be considered San Fran's second pitcher last year.
Cespedes plus someone that won't crack our rotation for Porcello is probably about exactly fair value for both teams. I'd even increase the trade package if it could get us a 72 hour window to negotiate an extension with him. An already good pitcher who will be only 26 going into next year is EXACTLY the type of player I want the front office to spend our resources (both assets and money) on every time.
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