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2015 Non-Sox thread
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 12, 2015 1:49:13 GMT -5
I mean With Conforto's emergence, Granderson's contract, and Lagares' defensive ability in CF, it was tough to see a ton of AB's for him. The move made little sense at the time for the Mets, especially with the pick attached. I guess they might say thanks at this point? A 0.0 WAR in 117 games last year, Steamer had him at 0.1 for 2016.
Just an utter waste by the Mets, though they only have four non-arbitration contracts for '16 at this point, so they could certainly still be players in FA with an extra $12M to spend
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 12, 2015 2:00:03 GMT -5
Cuddyer always struck me as someone who is a future manager.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Dec 12, 2015 9:00:10 GMT -5
Yea, I have no qualms with a note of praise, I just think it ends there. Also, given that the contract includes two opt-outs, he'll almost certainly take one of them and end up signing for the most $ anyways So now Heyward could hit the market in the same year as Bryce Harper, Andrew McCutchen, Josh Donaldson, Manny Machado and A.J. Pollock among position players and Clayton Kershaw, David Price, Dallas Keuchel and Jose Fernandez among pitchers. This seems like too much to be a coincidence. Something going on that agents are shooting for their players to be free to negotiate contracts that year? New TV deals kick in or something? I mean, could be coincidence just because there are a lot of good, young players, but it seems odd.
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Post by mgoetze on Dec 12, 2015 9:06:38 GMT -5
So now Heyward could hit the market in the same year as Bryce Harper, Andrew McCutchen, Josh Donaldson, Manny Machado and A.J. Pollock among position players and Clayton Kershaw, David Price, Dallas Keuchel and Jose Fernandez among pitchers. This seems like too much to be a coincidence. Something going on that agents are shooting for their players to be free to negotiate contracts that year? New TV deals kick in or something? I mean, could be coincidence just because there are a lot of good, young players, but it seems odd. Eh, it's business as usual. It's far enough into the future that at least half those guys will get extensions before then, which is why listing the free agent crop of years beyond the immediately coming one is always completely pointless.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 12, 2015 10:16:33 GMT -5
I mean With Conforto's emergence, Granderson's contract, and Lagares' defensive ability in CF, it was tough to see a ton of AB's for him. The move made little sense at the time for the Mets, especially with the pick attached. I guess they might say thanks at this point? A 0.0 WAR in 117 games last year, Steamer had him at 0.1 for 2016. Just an utter waste by the Mets, though they only have four non-arbitration contracts for '16 at this point, so they could certainly still be players in FA with an extra $12M to spend When the best thing you can say about a signing is that they guy retired midway through his contract, it probably wasn't a great idea.
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Post by mjammz on Dec 12, 2015 13:09:51 GMT -5
The Ken Giles trade was just announced. It wasn't as reported. It was a 5 for 2 and the Phillies got both VV AND Mark Appel in the deal. Wow. Craig Kimbrel deal doesn't look nearly as steep anymore.
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Post by basbal24 on Dec 12, 2015 13:15:23 GMT -5
what would that be in sox prospects for Giles ??
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Post by mjammz on Dec 12, 2015 13:27:04 GMT -5
what would that be in sox prospects for Giles ?? Appel's numbers haven't been great, but he's still got tremendous upside and will pitch in the majors. He is still one of the top 50 or so prospects in the game. As the #2 piece in a trade for a RP with a short track record of success, Phillies fans have to be happy with the haul.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 12, 2015 13:51:43 GMT -5
The Ken Giles trade was just announced. It wasn't as reported. It was a 5 for 2 and the Phillies got both VV AND Mark Appel in the deal. Wow. Craig Kimbrel deal doesn't look nearly as steep anymore. And again, I wonder what the Dodgers would give for Smith. Steve Cishek is also off the table, he signed with the Mariners. CF swap ?
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,839
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 12, 2015 14:02:48 GMT -5
The Ken Giles trade was just announced. It wasn't as reported. It was a 5 for 2 and the Phillies got both VV AND Mark Appel in the deal. Wow. Craig Kimbrel deal doesn't look nearly as steep anymore. I just saw that myself. WOW once again! Boy those Phils sure look a lot smarter after replacing Ruben Amaro! Man that is some deal for the Phillies.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 12, 2015 14:38:31 GMT -5
Gotta say, regardless of whether or not he sticks as a starter, Apppel has the stuff to be an above average bullpen arm at worst. Seems like a HUUUUUUUUGE win for the Phillies.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 12, 2015 21:37:05 GMT -5
Excellent review of the Cubs' off-season, and what may still be to come. Nice discussion of why Heyward works so well for them. This one's on BP, and it looks as if it's in front of the paywall, so no subscription needed.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 13, 2015 0:09:01 GMT -5
Yea, Appel getting included in that Giles deal is a pretty big deal. I know he's struggled, but there's so much upside there. Fisher was probably a higher floor, lower ceiling guy, with Appel being the opposite.
Crazy that two #1 overall picks get moved within a week
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 13, 2015 10:10:09 GMT -5
Gotta say, regardless of whether or not he sticks as a starter, Apppel has the stuff to be an above average bullpen arm at worst. Seems like a HUUUUUUUUGE win for the Phillies. It's kind of amazing how quickly the rebuild has come together for them. A year ago they were basically the most hopeless franchise around, and it really wouldn't be surprising to see them going into the next offseason with a solid young rotation, a handful of good young hitters, and money to spend. Ditto the Braves, more or less. It seems like increased parity is also leading to a league that's more dynamic in the medium-term. More teams contending means a stronger seller's market for the few teams that are rebuilding, which makes it less likely that a franchise ends up wandering in the darkness for decades at a time, and also makes it less likely for good teams to establish long-term dynasties when they have to give up such heavy packages for players like Giles or Miller. Also, it kind of makes me wonder about franchises that either haven't pulled off rebuilds successfully, or who simply refuse to try. As much as I love Billy Beane, it's kind of astonishing that he's managed to tear down the A's while accumulating so little talent in this environment. And if Shelby Miller brings in that kind of haul, what the hell are the White Sox doing hanging onto Sale?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2015 10:22:05 GMT -5
Gotta say, regardless of whether or not he sticks as a starter, Apppel has the stuff to be an above average bullpen arm at worst. Seems like a HUUUUUUUUGE win for the Phillies. It's kind of amazing how quickly the rebuild has come together for them. A year ago they were basically the most hopeless franchise around, and it really wouldn't be surprising to see them going into the next offseason with a solid young rotation, a handful of good young hitters, and money to spend. Ditto the Braves, more or less. It seems like increased parity is also leading to a league that's more dynamic in the medium-term. More teams contending means a stronger seller's market for the few teams that are rebuilding, which makes it less likely that a franchise ends up wandering in the darkness for decades at a time, and also makes it less likely for good teams to establish long-term dynasties when they have to give up such heavy packages for players like Giles or Miller. Also, it kind of makes me wonder about franchises that either haven't pulled off rebuilds successfully, or who simply refuse to try. As much as I love Billy Beane, it's kind of astonishing that he's managed to tear down the A's while accumulating so little talent in this environment. And if Shelby Miller brings in that kind of haul, what the hell are the White Sox doing hanging onto Sale? It's a really good time to rebuild. Prospects seem to be incredibly undervalued this year, unlike last year. The A's should be trading everyone.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Dec 13, 2015 11:27:58 GMT -5
It's kind of amazing how quickly the rebuild has come together for them. A year ago they were basically the most hopeless franchise around, and it really wouldn't be surprising to see them going into the next offseason with a solid young rotation, a handful of good young hitters, and money to spend. Ditto the Braves, more or less. It seems like increased parity is also leading to a league that's more dynamic in the medium-term. More teams contending means a stronger seller's market for the few teams that are rebuilding, which makes it less likely that a franchise ends up wandering in the darkness for decades at a time, and also makes it less likely for good teams to establish long-term dynasties when they have to give up such heavy packages for players like Giles or Miller. Also, it kind of makes me wonder about franchises that either haven't pulled off rebuilds successfully, or who simply refuse to try. As much as I love Billy Beane, it's kind of astonishing that he's managed to tear down the A's while accumulating so little talent in this environment. And if Shelby Miller brings in that kind of haul, what the hell are the White Sox doing hanging onto Sale? It's a really good time to rebuild. Prospects seem to be incredibly undervalued this year, unlike last year. The A's should be trading everyone. Billy Beane has done an astonishingly bad job over the last 18 or so months. He gets by on name, but over that time period there have been some sizable hauls of prospects traded for major league talent. And while his team has been in rebuild mode over the last 2/3rds of that timeframe he has failed to take advantage of that.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 13, 2015 11:42:43 GMT -5
It's almost as if he's taken disadvantage of it. The Donaldson trade was a head-scratcher at the time, and now it looks to be a real loss given the return for Lawrie. Not sure what's going on, but it doesn't bode well for Oakland.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2015 11:50:28 GMT -5
If Doolittle didn't have his shoulder issues, he could have gotten a haul. And what the heck was the Pomerantz for Alonso trade about? What was the point of that? It's as if Beane really hates prospects.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 13, 2015 13:03:15 GMT -5
The Donaldson trade was god awful, but the 2014 season when they went for it didn't help them much either.
I get why the White Sox haven't traded Sale. Same reason the Mariners didn't trade King Felix. When you have the money and a guy who's one of the top few pitchers in the entire game and he's young, you keep him. There's very little chance a team is giving you a ridiculous package for him. Would you trade Sale for the package Miller brought back? Do you think teams are willing to give up much more than that for a player? So basically, you have a situation where it's almost impossible to move him. You only give up Sale for a lessor package of you can't keep him. Think of what Price got Tampa... No way Chicago wants to give up Sale for that.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 14, 2015 16:26:16 GMT -5
Cueto to the SF Giants, pending physical.
per the twitterverse
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 14, 2015 16:28:44 GMT -5
That was my pick for where he ends up. Should be real good in that ballpark.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 14, 2015 16:36:28 GMT -5
Hmmm, the inevitable comparisons will come. Could have signed Cueto and Samardzija for around the same price as Price. I still prefer Price, but you know all the Boston writers will bring it up.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 14, 2015 16:42:45 GMT -5
Johnny Cueto's deal with #SFGiants is for six years and $130M with an opt out after 2 years.
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 14, 2015 16:44:14 GMT -5
Hmmm, the inevitable comparisons will come. Could have signed Cueto and Samardzija for around the same price as Price. I still prefer Price, but you know all the Boston writers will bring it up. Comparing Samardzija and Cueto spending half their time in AT&T Park to Price is a fool's errand. Also, given the last two years, Sox didn't have time to fart around with more half measures, no matter how promising the idea of likely bounce backs are.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 14, 2015 16:45:51 GMT -5
It's the year of the opt out?
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