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2015 Non-Sox thread
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 14, 2015 16:50:22 GMT -5
Sherman reports lots of teams scared of his elbow.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 14, 2015 17:03:04 GMT -5
Hmmm, the inevitable comparisons will come. Could have signed Cueto and Samardzija for around the same price as Price. I still prefer Price, but you know all the Boston writers will bring it up. Comparing Samardzija and Cueto spending half their time in AT&T Park to Price is a fool's errand. Also, given the last two years, Sox didn't have time to fart around with more half measures, no matter how promising the idea of likely bounce backs are. I'm not comparing them pitching in SF. I'm saying the Red Sox could have gotten both theoretically for about the same amount as Price.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 14, 2015 17:06:05 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Dec 14, 2015 17:38:47 GMT -5
Apologies for becoming the newest consultant to several MLB agents and helping make the opt-out a thing this year. Hey, they asked...
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Post by sammo420 on Dec 14, 2015 20:12:33 GMT -5
It's the year of the opt out? No, it's a trend on the rise. I think we're going to start seeing a lot more of them. I actually like the one Price got. It means we get a ver motivated pitcher for the next three years and most recoup a pick when we let him leave for somebody younger.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 14, 2015 21:19:41 GMT -5
Harper gets 10 years, 400 mil and an opt-out......after EVERY YEAR! I'm....kinda joking? (someone is going to get an opt-out after every year contract a la Lebron)
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 15, 2015 1:17:56 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what the Dodgers do. They've pretty much been shut out of starters and relievers and they don't seem like a team likely to take a pass year.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2015 7:56:05 GMT -5
It will be interesting to see what the Dodgers do. They've pretty much been shut out of starters and relievers and they don't seem like a team likely to take a pass year. I wonder if the cable money is going to dry up.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2015 8:02:04 GMT -5
Harper gets 10 years, 400 mil and an opt-out......after EVERY YEAR! I'm....kinda joking? (someone is going to get an opt-out after every year contract a la Lebron) I really hope the next CBA gets rid of these, or at least adds in something about buyouts for horrible contracts to counter opt-outs.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 15, 2015 8:48:01 GMT -5
Harper gets 10 years, 400 mil and an opt-out......after EVERY YEAR! I'm....kinda joking? (someone is going to get an opt-out after every year contract a la Lebron) I really hope the next CBA gets rid of these, or at least adds in something about buyouts for horrible contracts to counter opt-outs. Buyouts already exist in the form of club options.
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Post by bigpupp on Dec 15, 2015 9:38:00 GMT -5
Harper gets 10 years, 400 mil and an opt-out......after EVERY YEAR! I'm....kinda joking? (someone is going to get an opt-out after every year contract a la Lebron) Yanks gave an opt out after every year to a reliever a few years ago. Soriano I think it was?
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0ap0
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Post by 0ap0 on Dec 15, 2015 9:57:53 GMT -5
Harper gets 10 years, 400 mil and an opt-out......after EVERY YEAR! I'm....kinda joking? (someone is going to get an opt-out after every year contract a la Lebron) It's like bizarro Wakefield's contract.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2015 10:33:05 GMT -5
I really hope the next CBA gets rid of these, or at least adds in something about buyouts for horrible contracts to counter opt-outs. Buyouts already exist in the form of club options. I suppose, but make it the default. Every contract can be bought out for 50% or something. They aren't going to trend towards more club options on their own. They're trending towards giving player opt outs after every season. Making contracts even more super guaranteed for veterans and putting 100% of all risk on the teams is about the worst way to spread revenue around. As a fan, I don't want to watch overpaid players embarrass themselves like Barry Zito and Allen Craig. I'd rather see Mookie Betts and Eduardo Rodriguez make $30 million a year when they're in their mid 20s than to see Vernon Wells play like the worst player in baseball and be given 100 chances in hopes of recovering any value at all for $20 million per season.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 15, 2015 11:00:03 GMT -5
Buyouts already exist in the form of club options. I suppose, but make it the default. Every contract can be bought out for 50% or something. They aren't going to trend towards more club options on their own. They're trending towards giving player opt outs after every season. Making contracts even more super guaranteed for veterans and putting 100% of all risk on the teams is about the worst way to spread revenue around. As a fan, I don't want to watch overpaid players embarrass themselves like Barry Zito and Allen Craig. I'd rather see Mookie Betts and Eduardo Rodriguez make $30 million a year when they're in their mid 20s than to see Vernon Wells play like the worst player in baseball and be given 100 chances in hopes of recovering any value at all for $20 million per season. 1. Buy out Allen Craig's contract 2. ?? 3. Mookie Betts gets paid I understand why people want to do something to address the extreme asymmetry in how young players are compensated versus old ones, but allowing teams to buy out contracts is, at best, half a solution.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2015 11:17:42 GMT -5
I suppose, but make it the default. Every contract can be bought out for 50% or something. They aren't going to trend towards more club options on their own. They're trending towards giving player opt outs after every season. Making contracts even more super guaranteed for veterans and putting 100% of all risk on the teams is about the worst way to spread revenue around. As a fan, I don't want to watch overpaid players embarrass themselves like Barry Zito and Allen Craig. I'd rather see Mookie Betts and Eduardo Rodriguez make $30 million a year when they're in their mid 20s than to see Vernon Wells play like the worst player in baseball and be given 100 chances in hopes of recovering any value at all for $20 million per season. 1. Buy out Allen Craig's contract 2. ?? 3. Mookie Betts gets paid I understand why people want to do something to address the extreme asymmetry in how young players are compensated versus old ones, but allowing teams to buy out contracts is, at best, half a solution. Yes I know. I don't have the answer, but moving towards opt-outs after every season is getting further away from that. It just about guarantees that there are more horrible contracts and less bargains.
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0ap0
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Post by 0ap0 on Dec 15, 2015 11:25:58 GMT -5
Yes I know. I don't have the answer, but moving towards opt-outs after every season is getting further away from that. It just about guarantees that there are more horrible contracts and less bargains. In any reasonably functioning market the probability of a horrible contract should be directly reflected in the price of the contract. It doesn't really matter the mechanism by which the contract is likely to become horrible. That's why longer contracts are lower AAV. Contracts with more player options will simply be contracts for less money than they would otherwise have to promise. Risk can be structured in all sorts of ways, but it's relatively easy to quantify and put a price tag on. EDIT: IMHO, what it just about guarantees is that contracts become more fair-market price -- with fewer horrible contracts AND fewer bargains.
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
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Post by badfishnbc on Dec 15, 2015 11:34:15 GMT -5
Hmmm, the inevitable comparisons will come. Could have signed Cueto and Samardzija for around the same price as Price. I still prefer Price, but you know all the Boston writers will bring it up. Didn't we try the whole acquire-two-for-the-price-of-one last year, with Porcello/Miley?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 15, 2015 11:48:55 GMT -5
Hmmm, the inevitable comparisons will come. Could have signed Cueto and Samardzija for around the same price as Price. I still prefer Price, but you know all the Boston writers will bring it up. Didn't we try the whole acquire-two-for-the-price-of-one last year, with Porcello/Miley? Don't forget Sandoval/Hanley. Obviously there's exceptions, but in general the second-tier free agents are just death. I'd rather spend $200m on one pitcher who's essentially perfect than $100m each on two guys with spotty track records and/or significant red flags injury-wise. There's a reason that this path was Plan B for the Giants.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 15, 2015 12:04:01 GMT -5
1. Buy out Allen Craig's contract 2. ?? 3. Mookie Betts gets paid I understand why people want to do something to address the extreme asymmetry in how young players are compensated versus old ones, but allowing teams to buy out contracts is, at best, half a solution. Yes I know. I don't have the answer, but moving towards opt-outs after every season is getting further away from that. It just about guarantees that there are more horrible contracts and less bargains. The other thing I worry about is that if you did fix this problem fully, and players were compensated fairly for their performance on a year-to-year basis, is that it would greatly reduce the incentive for teams to invest in amateur talent acquisition and development. As messed up as the "Josh Hamilton gets paid 100x what Mike Trout does" pay scale in baseball is, in some ways it's the best thing for the overall health of the game. I'd actually like to see the pay disparity for young players addressed at the amateur level. It would be nice to get a more fair pay scale in place for the Mookie Bettses of the world, but the guys who are really getting screwed are minor leaguers who don't sign for big bonuses and don't have long big league careers. Especially with everything going on with football these days, I think MLB is really squandering a golden opportunity by resticting what can spend in the draft (or even having a draft for that matter). How many elite athletes could you entice to try baseball for a couple million dollars, as opposed to doing unpaid labor in the NCAA's concussion factory? Teams are awash in money, wouldn't you rather have them investing that in young, high-ceiling talent rather than spending $30m on some mediocre reliever?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 15, 2015 14:53:19 GMT -5
Buyouts already exist in the form of club options. I suppose, but make it the default. Every contract can be bought out for 50% or something. They aren't going to trend towards more club options on their own. They're trending towards giving player opt outs after every season. Making contracts even more super guaranteed for veterans and putting 100% of all risk on the teams is about the worst way to spread revenue around. As a fan, I don't want to watch overpaid players embarrass themselves like Barry Zito and Allen Craig. I'd rather see Mookie Betts and Eduardo Rodriguez make $30 million a year when they're in their mid 20s than to see Vernon Wells play like the worst player in baseball and be given 100 chances in hopes of recovering any value at all for $20 million per season.Your not talking about a little change. Your talking about changing the economics of the whole game. That could kill small market teams. Places like Tampa Bay only make things work by having a bunch of young cheap talent. That could bring about a decrease in number of teams and thus devalue the whole game and all teams. Hence never going to happen. All sports pay young players below what they are worth. It's the risk/reward for drafting and developing players well as a team.
If your team is stupid enough to sign Vernon Wells to a crazy deal then you have to live with it or eat money and trade him. Don't blame Wells, blame the GM's and Owners. The system is a free market, it doesn't make teams overpay free agents, teams do that all by themselves. Teams like the Royals win a title without massively overpaying free agents. The system will fix itself, just like with Manny and ARODS first deal. Go look at how massive they were, heck 15 years later they still look like market prices. After that though teams started getting smarter and those huge massive deal at 8 plus years for massive money starred to happen less and less. Now we are getting back to those deals. Wait for a bunch of them to blow up and teams will once again back off giving out massive deals for a ton of years. It's really the years that is becoming the problem. Look at Grienke I have no problem with the money, its the fact that it's 6 years when he's 32 that's crazy.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2015 14:58:34 GMT -5
I suppose, but make it the default. Every contract can be bought out for 50% or something. They aren't going to trend towards more club options on their own. They're trending towards giving player opt outs after every season. Making contracts even more super guaranteed for veterans and putting 100% of all risk on the teams is about the worst way to spread revenue around. As a fan, I don't want to watch overpaid players embarrass themselves like Barry Zito and Allen Craig. I'd rather see Mookie Betts and Eduardo Rodriguez make $30 million a year when they're in their mid 20s than to see Vernon Wells play like the worst player in baseball and be given 100 chances in hopes of recovering any value at all for $20 million per season.Your not talking about a little change. Your talking about changing the economics of the whole game. That could kill small market teams. Places like Tampa Bay only make things work by having a bunch of young cheap talent. That could bring about a decrease in number of teams and thus devalue the whole game and all teams. Hence never going to happen. All sports pay young players below what they are worth. It's the risk/reward for drafting and developing players well as a team.
If your team is stupid enough to sign Vernon Wells to a crazy deal then you have to live with it or eat money and trade him. Don't blame Wells, blame the GM's and Owners. The system is a free market, it doesn't make teams overpay free agents, teams do that all by themselves. Teams like the Royals win a title without massively overpaying free agents. The system will fix itself, just like with Manny and ARODS first deal. Go look at how massive they were, heck 15 years later they still look like market prices. After that though teams started getting smarter and those huge massive deal at 8 plus years for massive money starred to happen less and less. Now we are getting back to those deals. Wait for a bunch of them to blow up and teams will once again back off giving out massive deals for a ton of years. It's really the years that is becoming the problem. Look at Grienke I have no problem with the money, its the fact that it's 6 years when he's 32 that's crazy.
I don't really care who's fault it is or what teams are stupid. I as a baseball fan just have absolutely no interest in seeing players embarrass themselves because they're still owed a stupid amount of money. And yes I know that it's not an easy change.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Dec 15, 2015 15:27:21 GMT -5
Your not talking about a little change. Your talking about changing the economics of the whole game. That could kill small market teams. Places like Tampa Bay only make things work by having a bunch of young cheap talent. That could bring about a decrease in number of teams and thus devalue the whole game and all teams. Hence never going to happen. All sports pay young players below what they are worth. It's the risk/reward for drafting and developing players well as a team.
If your team is stupid enough to sign Vernon Wells to a crazy deal then you have to live with it or eat money and trade him. Don't blame Wells, blame the GM's and Owners. The system is a free market, it doesn't make teams overpay free agents, teams do that all by themselves. Teams like the Royals win a title without massively overpaying free agents. The system will fix itself, just like with Manny and ARODS first deal. Go look at how massive they were, heck 15 years later they still look like market prices. After that though teams started getting smarter and those huge massive deal at 8 plus years for massive money starred to happen less and less. Now we are getting back to those deals. Wait for a bunch of them to blow up and teams will once again back off giving out massive deals for a ton of years. It's really the years that is becoming the problem. Look at Grienke I have no problem with the money, its the fact that it's 6 years when he's 32 that's crazy.
I don't really care who's fault it is or what teams are stupid. I as a baseball fan just have absolutely no interest in seeing players embarrass themselves because they're still owed a stupid amount of money. And yes I know that it's not an easy change. So it essentially comes down to whether you and others will stop watching games, attending games, buying baseball swag, etc. If there are indications that will happen, then I'm sure MLB will take this very seriously to avoid losing the $$$. I agree in general - just not sure we are at that point yet (and keep in mind those on this forum are the minority of baseball fans - I don't think most care about the player's pay as much as we do)
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 15, 2015 17:05:31 GMT -5
Jim, do you see contract figures floating above a guys head when he's in the field? How does what a guy makes affect you watching the game? Vernon wells didn't live up to his contract, but it's not like he didn't belong in the major leagues either.
Allen Craig doesn't and guess what he's not...
Most of these awful contracts are to players who should still have a job just not at that amount. Therefore they don't really bring down the quality of product unless you see dollars above their heads
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 15, 2015 17:29:02 GMT -5
Jim, do you see contract figures floating above a guys head when he's in the field? How does what a guy makes affect you watching the game? Vernon wells didn't live up to his contract, but it's not like he didn't belong in the major leagues either. Allen Craig doesn't and guess what he's not... Most of these awful contracts are to players who should still have a job just not at that amount. Therefore they don't really bring down the quality of product unless you see dollars above their heads We had to watch Craig give us -1.9 wins first. And you forgot guys like Uggla, Crawford, Zito, Howard, Lincecum, Hamilton and about 50 others I could come up with. The contract figures do not float over their heads when I'm watching them. They float over their heads when management decides how long of a leash to give them. So yeah, if one of Pablo and Hanley are playing below replacement level this year while Travis Shaw is on the bench, I'm going to be pissed. I understand trying to recover Pablo and Hanley's values, but it's not enjoyable at all. It's annoying as hell.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Dec 15, 2015 18:53:52 GMT -5
I didn't see this posted anywhere else, but my apologies if it has been already somewhere, but the Brewers signed Middlebrooks to a minor league deal with an invite to Major League camp. Also this:
Seeing a Cecchini/Middlebrooks platoon come to fruition (if that actually happens) would be pretty interesting to say the least.
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