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2012-2012 Celtics Season
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Post by texs31 on Feb 14, 2013 15:10:14 GMT -5
I would but not necessarily bc Bledsoe is the better player. I DO believe he's the better asset though. Bradley is a wonderful young complementary player but I think Bledsoe allows you to have a true PG for this year (and he's widely consider a VERY good defender, even if not in Bradley's league). Then, you can figure out who's your PG of the future Bledose or Rondo. Either one would bring a decent package in return.
That being said, I don't see any combination that brings us Bledsoe happening.
On other trade topics, I've been scouring the NBA rosters and am struggling to find a good trade for the C's (and, unless I hear otherwise, I'm skipping over any "blow it up" scenarios).
The closest I can come is to ship Jason Terry to one of the teams that is looking at JJ Redick (MIL, CHI, GS, IND) or another that I saw who might have interest (more internet speculation than actual rumor) like SA.
Maybe to SA for DeJuan Blair and, say, a Nando De Colo/Cory Joseph/Patty Mills type. Not exciting to say the least but Blair has started and done well in the past (despite obvious limitations) and the guard could replace the body of Terry (figuring that rotations will tighten up as we get to the playoffs).
Indiana (Hansbrough and G Green) Milwaukee (Udoh, Daniels and Lamb) GS/CHI - don't see a match salary wise
Do any of those excite? Not me. So it looks like we're gonna raid the Chinese and Australia leagues and watch Boston play tought but, ultimately, lose after 1 or 2 rounds. Ugh.
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Post by jmei on Feb 14, 2013 16:37:44 GMT -5
It's really, really hard to say that Bradley is a better player than Bledsoe. Bradley is a better on-ball defender (including in the pick-and-roll, where he is elite at "getting skinny" and fighting through picks), but Bledsoe is a better off-ball defender in terms of getting in the passing lanes, double-teaming the post, and coming from the weak side to challenge a shot. Bledsoe is also generally a much more polished, well-rounded player than Bradley, especially offensively: he's a better rebounder (5.2 boards/36 min; only 2.9 for Bradley), a better playmaker (5.4 assists/36, only 2.0 for Bradley), and better able to create his shot (scores 4 more points/36 than Bradley, including more shots and a higher percentage at the rim and more attempts at the free throw line). Bledsoe does turn the ball over more (but, then again, he also handles the ball a lot more) and is a worse mid-range shooter than Bradley (he is shooting much better from downtown than Bradley this year, but I'm not sure that will hold going forward-- Bradley was an elite corner three shooter by the end of last season.), but just about everywhere else, Bledsoe is the better player.
I do think a midseason trade with the Clippers is very unlikely, but I could see an offseason trade involving Pierce and/or Garnett that has Bledsoe coming to Boston. Bledsoe will be a restricted free agent after next year, and since the Clippers will struggle to re-sign him with Paul, Griffin, and Jordan already taking them close to the edge of the salary cap (especially with notorious cheapskate Donald Sterling as the owner), they may have to trade him a year early (a la Harden) to get the most value.
I read all this stuff about how the Celtics shouldn't target Bledsoe since they already have Rondo, but I think that's thinking about it the wrong way. Moving forward, Ainge should try and collect the assets necessary to create the next great Celtics team, and Bledsoe is by far the best asset who is semi-available. For floor-spacing reasons, it's less than ideal to play Bledsoe off the ball, but the same is true of Bradley, and if a backcourt of Rondo-Bradley can work, there's no reason you couldn't play Rondo-Bledsoe together as well, especially if Bledsoe continues to develop his three-point stroke. I don't think the fact that Vinny Del Negro insists on playing Bledsoe only at the 1 is a reason for Boston to be hesitant to make a trade, especially with Rondo coming off serious injury and not that far from unrestricted free agency himself.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 14, 2013 17:52:07 GMT -5
I would not trade Bradley for Bledsoe. You'd be a bad GM.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 16, 2013 9:04:38 GMT -5
I would not trade Bradley for Bledsoe. You'd be a bad GM. I posted that when the Celtics were still quasi-competing. Losing Sullinger and Barbosa changes some things. They wouldn't get Bledsoe straight up for Bradley anyway, even though the two are pretty much equals.
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Post by jmei on Feb 16, 2013 9:17:10 GMT -5
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Post by tjb21 on Feb 19, 2013 15:22:44 GMT -5
In terms of talent, yes. I would do that trade all day long. I hate Jordan's contract though, he's a good player, but his contract isn't good at all. If the Celtics were to get a 1st round pick back (very unlikely), I would do it. It's not a horrible trade by any means for Boston, I think it's probably close to a "fair" trade, but I wouldn't call it 100% from my POV.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 21, 2013 10:25:12 GMT -5
Latest rumor has Boston interested in Jordan Crawford (WAS) with Fab Melo as the bait. Sounds like they want to add complimentary bits in lieu of blowing it up.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 21, 2013 14:19:12 GMT -5
Latest rumor has Boston interested in Jordan Crawford (WAS) with Fab Melo as the bait. Sounds like they want to add complimentary bits in lieu of blowing it up. Deal is done, but for Barbosa's expiring contract instead. In other words, literally nothing.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 21, 2013 14:37:02 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say the Celtics are now the frontrunners to win the NBA championship.
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Post by jmei on Feb 21, 2013 15:44:13 GMT -5
Crawford ended up being for Barbosa and Collins, which means the Fab Melo era has now officially begun.
I'm disappointed that the Celtics were unable to find deals for Garnett and Piece, as I think their value only declines from here. When you also take into account the Terry/Bass/Green/Lee quartet of overpaid mediocrity, the Celtics are capped out for two more years beyond this one with the ceiling of a tough out in the second round.
Honestly, I might have just done the KG-for-Bledsoe/DJ and Pierce-to-the-Nets deals if they were on the table. Then try to move Terry/Bass before the deadline or during the offseason. As it is now, the Celtics look like an older version of the pre-Punto-trade Red Sox, and in a league with an effective salary cap and a reliance on superstars, that just won't cut it.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 21, 2013 16:26:07 GMT -5
From the sound of it, the Clippers were the ones who backed off on that deal...although I'm sure Garnett's insistence to stay in Boston didn't help. Chris Paul is basically running the show there, and he (inexplicably) requested that the Clippers don't make any moves.
Bass, Lee and Terry (in a year at least) are all movable contracts. But the Celtics didn't capitalize on Garnett/Pierce's last year with trade value, which kinda sucks.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 21, 2013 17:14:07 GMT -5
So I guess we have to root against the Clippers and hope KG doesn't retire. That way, maybe, LA and Paul (after re-signing) realizes that they need KG and we re-visit this summer?
Question, can we do a sign-and-trade with PIerce if we choose the non-guarantee option on his contract?
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Post by jmei on Feb 21, 2013 18:13:28 GMT -5
Won't have to do a sign-and-trade with Pierce-- he's under contract for $15.3m next year, but only $4m or $5m (depends on whether incentives are hit this season) is guaranteed. That means we can trade him to a team that wants cap space and they can cut him and effectively trim $10-11m in salary. The downside is that the Celtics presumably will have to take back roughly $15m in salary for matching purposes, which is less than ideal.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 22, 2013 8:37:38 GMT -5
Yeah, but I was wondering if we'd get better assets if we, say, pay the $5M to PIerce and then work with him to sign a reasonable 2-year deal and trade him to a team with a chance to win.
If that's possible, I'd rather try that then trade him to someone who is looking to cut salary (likely asking us to take a bad multi-year deal in return - along with some "bribery" in the form of picks).
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Post by jmei on Feb 22, 2013 11:56:07 GMT -5
Wilcox was reportedly originally supposed to be in the Crawford trade but he refused to waive his Bird rights, which forced Collins to be in the deal instead. Very interesting that the Celtics preferred to deal Wilcox instead of Collins, which tells you exactly how little the front office/Doc think of his defense.
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Post by texs31 on Feb 22, 2013 16:37:21 GMT -5
Somebody from the NY Post (Fred Kerber?) is reporting that Boston asked for MarShon Brooks, Mirza Teletovic, Kris Humphries and two first-round picks in exchange for Paul Pierce. If that's the case, a few points:
1) Not exactly priced to sell as that would be a lot to give up 2) I guess BRK would've used Wallace as the 4? 3) We'll never know but I'm curious as to the potential fall out Certainly this could've brought up the KG to LAC discussion again. But what about other moves? Would've lead to a logjam of SG (and no true PG). Maybe someday we can read about Danny's intended plan for the Trade Deadline of 2013.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Mar 10, 2013 23:44:39 GMT -5
In no way Celtics related but DEANDRE JORDAN my god.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 16, 2013 10:57:17 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Mar 20, 2013 20:50:32 GMT -5
Jeff Greem's right-handed drive is as good as ever, particularly when he's matched up against slower 4s (almost all of his scoring drives against Miami, for instance, were against Haslem or Birdman) and his iso defense is pretty good, but his help defense is really quite bad. He doesn't hedge enough on the pick-and-roll and is prone to ball-watching off the ball. His rotations (particularly when he plays the 4 and has to cut off penetration or rotate to another big man in the paint) are regularly slow and tentative. Between that and his rebounding, he has quite a bit to grow still.
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Post by jmei on Apr 26, 2013 20:22:12 GMT -5
Pierce looks spent. Just in the first half, 2-10 shooting, no free throws or threes, 3 turnovers, struggling with his handle in traffic, getting beat on every 50/50 rebound, slow on rotations. He's had a mismatch basically the whole series (Shumpert, Kidd, Felton, Prigioni) and has struggled to create points for himself or others (granted, the Celtics also can't spread the floor and so the Knicks have been packing the paint, but he struggled to even get post position against guys he outweighs by 40 lbs). Just sad to see.
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Post by Jonathan Singer on Apr 26, 2013 20:26:44 GMT -5
A sweep is happening
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 28, 2013 13:54:12 GMT -5
Goddamn right it is, but only later today.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Apr 28, 2013 15:09:45 GMT -5
KG is a lot more spent than Pierce. He's had a terrible series, but I'm amazed at how good and durable Pierce still is. He's this team's best scorer, rebounder, passer, ball handler, etc.
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Post by jmei on Apr 28, 2013 16:54:34 GMT -5
KG has still been a force on the boards (17 rebounds today, 17 last game) and on defense (team-best +16 today), and he even tied a team-best with 6 assists. He hasn't had many shots this series (11.3 FGA) and hasn't converted those that he has gotten off (38.2% shooting percentage), but he was never supposed to carry this team on offense.
I still find Pierce's struggles much more concerning. As recently as a year or two ago, he would be destroying the likes of Kidd and Prigioni from the high post and finding the open man when he gets doubled. This series, he's having trouble receiving post entry passes, getting stripped every other possession, and getting smothered by a double-team whenever he thinks he has an opening. He's averaging 5.3 turnovers per game, which is just about as careless you can be with the ball and still get touches. He can still create some good looks and hit gutsy shots, but a team with Pierce as its offensive centerpiece just can't score enough to win these days. The Celtics are asking too much of him, and while he's giving it his all and succeeding more than he has any right to, it just clearly isn't enough.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Apr 28, 2013 17:24:29 GMT -5
The Celtics are asking too much of him, and while he's giving it his all and succeeding more than he has any right to, it just clearly isn't enough. Well, yeah. The team was built after the Spurs, with the depth that would prevent Pierce from regularly playing more than 30 minutes. Unfortunately, Rondo (and Sullinger/Barbosa) injury, Terry sucked ass and Green didn't come on until the end of the season, so that plan went out the window. Pierce averaged a team-high 33.5 minutes per game, and he was still by far their most effective scorer, rebounder, passer, etc. In the second half of the season, he averaged something like 19 ppg, 7 rpg and 5 apg. The only other guy in the league with those stats was LeBron (obviously on a higher level). KG is still pretty good, but his production noticeably dips once he eclipses the 30 mpg mark. He still has another good season in him, but that's what I meant by him being "more spent" than Pierce.
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