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2012-2012 Celtics Season
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Post by jcn92 on Sept 3, 2012 14:38:07 GMT -5
Thread on the new board for the upcoming Celtics season.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 20, 2012 8:01:30 GMT -5
According to ESPN (who is citing Novosti.rs via Sportando), Darko Milicic is flying to the US to sign a deal with the Celtics.
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Post by jmei on Sept 20, 2012 8:28:07 GMT -5
Oh god.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 21, 2012 13:13:26 GMT -5
Why "oh god?" Size at the veteran minimum for one year? If he does anything at all he's worth it.
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Post by tjb21 on Sept 21, 2012 14:50:50 GMT -5
No downside to signing the human victory cigar.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 21, 2012 16:13:39 GMT -5
May be grasping here but the negative for me is that Melo's best chance of becoming something may hinge on spending time with KG and learning how to play with intensity.
I would think this move all but ensure's he spends most of his time in the D-League.
Again, that's probably a reach.
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Post by jmei on Sept 21, 2012 21:07:00 GMT -5
Why "oh god?" Size at the veteran minimum for one year? If he does anything at all he's worth it. This is like the Scott Podsednik signing to me. I guess technically there's no downside, and Scotty Pods ended up being a small sample size wonder, but Darko has always had a terrible entitled attitude (sulked on the bench in Detroit rather than let it motivate him, weak work ethic, etc.), and I don't want that to rub off on Melo or for it to lead KG to break him.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 22, 2012 8:40:07 GMT -5
or for it to lead KG to break him. Why? THIS WOULD BE SO FUN!
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 22, 2012 8:45:59 GMT -5
I would think this move all but ensure's he spends most of his time in the D-League. You think? This is from Chris Forsberg the other day, but adjusted after Dooling retired: GUARANTEED CONTRACTS FOR 2012-13 (13) Guards: Rajon Rondo ($11 million), Avery Bradley ($1.6 million), Jason Terry ($5 million), Courtney Lee ($5 million) Forwards: Paul Pierce ($16.8 million), Brandon Bass ($6 million), Jeff Green ($8.4 million), Jared Sullinger ($1.3 million*) Center: Kevin Garnett ($11.6 million), Chris Wilcox ($854,389**), Jason Collins ($854,389**), Darko Milicic ($854,839**), Fab Melo ($1.3 million*) NON- OR PARTIALLY GUARANTEED 2012-13 CONTRACTS (3) Kris Joseph ($473,604); Jamar Smith ($473,604), Dionte Christmas ($473,604) TRAINING CAMP INVITES (1) Rob Kurz His point in that piece was that Joseph, Smith, and Christmas were fighting for the last roster spot. I guess that's a lot of bodies at center, but I think Milicic is more insurance in case Melo isn't ready than someone that's going to push him to the D-League if he could have hung in Boston.
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Post by jmei on Sept 22, 2012 11:06:36 GMT -5
or for it to lead KG to break him. Why? THIS WOULD BE SO FUN! Yeah, but they're going to have to suspend KG after he tears out Darko's throat with his bare hands on national TV.
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Post by texs31 on Sept 24, 2012 7:53:14 GMT -5
Chris,
I guess Darko and Fab fight for the last few C minutes. I just assume since Darko has no where to go, Fab to the D would be the best "roster management".
Either way, it's trying to find a downside to a move that has little.
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Post by jmei on Dec 15, 2012 17:43:49 GMT -5
Would you trade Jeff Green, Brandon Bass, and Courtney Lee for Paul Gasol, assuming Gasol's knee tendinitis heals by January 15th and Avery Bradley returns and is fully healthy?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 17, 2012 11:50:26 GMT -5
Without question.
The guy that interests me the most, though, is Al Jefferson. He's a terrific complement to KG, and I don't think Utah has any interest in bringing him back after this season.
Gortat is another interesting, cheaper name that's been thrown around. He would certainly help with the rebounding, but I don't like the idea of moving KG off of center. Overall, he makes a ton of sense, though.
Don't expect Josh Smith's name to come up too much - Atlanta is very interested in signing him long term.
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Post by jmei on Dec 17, 2012 12:12:02 GMT -5
The biggest problem with the roster is the lack of an above-average or even average defensive big man behind KG. No other big on the roster has the length/athleticism or shot-blocking ability to (a) hedge and recover on the pick-and-roll and (b) provide good enough help defense on the second level when perimeter players get beat.
While Jefferson is a great offensive player and rebounder and a decent post defender, he doesn't have the length or athleticism to solve the Celtics' defensive problems. Gortat is a good shot-blocker and defender (although he has struggled on that end this season), and he would be ideal as the third big man in the rotation who subs in for KG at around the seven minute mark in the 1Q and 3Q. The problem is, it will likely require either Sullinger or Bradley (or both), along with one of Green/Lee/Bass to acquire Gortat, and I'm not sure if the price is worth it.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 17, 2012 13:42:58 GMT -5
Jefferson is a legit 6'10, and he's a pretty good athlete to boot. His defense stinks, but you would have to think someone with his talent would at least be competent on that end playing for Doc.
(If Ray Allen could be an average defender in Boston, pretty much anyone can be.)
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Post by jmei on Dec 17, 2012 14:17:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure Jefferson is a good athlete. His pre-draft measurements were pretty terrible-- no step vert was a very mediocre 28.5 and his lane agility was an atrocious 13.08. That's much worse than guys like Bass (31.5, 11.62) and Wilcox (31, 11.43) and even worse than guys like Melo (29.5, 12.14) and Sullinger (29.5, 12.77) who are noted bad athletes. Yes, Jefferson was drafted out of HS eight years ago and has slimmed down a bit since then, but he's 27 now and not many guys get more athletic once they move from their early 20s. Most scouting reports would back me up on this one--Jefferson is a borderline all-star because of superb post technique, footwork, and strength, but he's a below-average athlete for an NBA big.
Moreover, defense matters a lot more for big men than for guards. You can integrate below-average guards into the defense (Ray Allen, Nate Robinson, Jason Terry, etc.) if you have great defensive bigs backing them up (you can have them funnel players towards the baseline, etc). But it's really tough to play good team defense if you have slow-footed, unathletic bigs who have to make three or four quick rotations per possession and can't keep up physically or mentally.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 17, 2012 14:29:53 GMT -5
After watching him for eight years (I have league pass, so I watch Utah play at least a dozen times a year), I feel pretty confident saying he isn't a bad athlete. He's not Dwight Howard or even Chris Wilcox, but at 6-foot-10, he moves plenty well enough to be a competent defender.
I mean, Big Baby managed to be average defensively in Boston. Big Al is four inches taller and a tick more athletic.
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Post by jmei on Dec 17, 2012 14:35:44 GMT -5
Baby had above-average quickness and great feet, plus he always took a ton of charges. I don't watch Jefferson play too much, so I'll defer to you on that one. I just know the basketball blogosphere has regarded Jefferson as a pretty bad defender for years now (see here and here, for instance), which is pretty much in line with what little I've seen of him. Jefferson does have more blocks than I would expect, and he has pretty good 7'2" wingspan.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 17, 2012 14:49:19 GMT -5
I actually think great is an understatement with regard to Big Baby's feet. For that reason, I wish we got to see how good of a football player he could have been. Jefferson is definitely a bad defender - I'll never contend that. I've only argued that with his size and athletic ability, there's no reason he couldn't turn himself into an average defensive player...something he would HAVE to do to get extended playing time in Boston. If Doc and co. could manage to turn guys like Stiemsma and Ryan Hollins into competent NBA big men, I have little doubt they could do the same about Big Al's defense. And because we're spending all this time debating this, there's probably a 0.5% chance of the Celtics adding Jefferson at the deadline.
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Post by jcn92 on Dec 22, 2012 22:01:53 GMT -5
Is anybody potentially interested in acquiring DeMarcus Cousins? Since last night's Cousins incident where he didn't come out of the locker room after half time, continuing his streak of clashes with coaches in Sacramento, I have seen a few people bring up the Celtics as a possible destination. Bill Simmons has been tweeting about acquiring Cousins and sending him to "KG Camp" saying that Cousins "can be saved".
I think the trade would be a good one, although I would not want to give up Sullinger. The defense and rebounding has continued to be atrocious and I would hope that bringing in a true five would help take pressure off of KG and improve the Celt's defense. At the same time I could see Doc, Pierce, and KG mentoring Cousins. I don't think there was ever a veteran on Sacramento who could mentor him or take him under his wing.
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Post by jmei on Dec 22, 2012 23:07:13 GMT -5
The Red Sox basically have two desirable trade assets-- Sullinger and Bradley. Their picks won't be terribly valuable and while Terry, Bass, and Lee are useful for salary-matching purposes, none are really in high demand in the league. To get a high-upside player like Cousins or even a lesser big man like Gortat or Pau Gasol, you're going to have to give up Sullinger or Bradley (and maybe even both), especially if you include Jeff Green's bloated contract.
As for the defense, there are two problems-- (a) the perimeter players are getting beat off the dribble or in the P-n-R way too easily (Rondo, Terry, Pierce are the worst culprits) and (b) there is only one above-average defensive big man who can cut off penetration and defend the rim. I'm not sure Cousins helps with either, although he might provide a bridge to the next great Celtics team and that alone might be worth making a deal.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 23, 2012 2:12:17 GMT -5
The Red Sox basically have two desirable trade assets-- Sullinger and Bradley. Ironic part is that Sullinger's the only one that makes this statement incorrect.
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Post by jcn92 on Dec 24, 2012 1:18:06 GMT -5
The Celtics signed Jarvis Varnardo from Sioux Falls Skyforce of the D-League. I don't anticipate Varnardo getting any significant minutes but am happy to see him make his NBA debut. He was a beast in college setting the all time blocks record while at Mississippi State and has a 7'4 wing span. He was averaging 4 blocks a game in the D-League. Who knows, maybe he surprises and is a big contributor on defense.
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Post by jmei on Dec 24, 2012 11:32:01 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if he became the first big off the bench by the end of January. The other bigs on the roster are that bad on D.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,865
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Post by wcp3 on Dec 26, 2012 16:21:38 GMT -5
I doubt there are any bigger Bradley fans on this board than me, but I would trade Bradley/Sullinger/+ for Cousins in a heartbeat.
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