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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 9:11:13 GMT -5
There is a wealth of documentary and testimonial evidence presented in the Wells Report that Walt Anderson properly checked the footballs before the game. What evidence? they never recorded any type of measurement. As far as I'm concerned the ref could just be covering his own ***. Multiple game officials and Jim "the deflator" McNally witnessed Anderson testing the footballs, and there are marks on the game balls indicating that they had been cleared. Honestly, this is getting into 9/11 truther territory. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on May 7, 2015 9:52:28 GMT -5
What evidence? they never recorded any type of measurement. As far as I'm concerned the ref could just be covering his own ***. Multiple game officials and Jim "the deflator" McNally witnessed Anderson testing the footballs, and there are marks on the game balls indicating that they had been cleared. Honestly, this is getting into 9/11 truther territory. Ouch, that's a low blow. I'm going to have to go re-read the report in more detail. Admittedly I focused more on the science and the numbers; which themselves created more questions than they answered. |
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on May 7, 2015 10:07:27 GMT -5
What evidence? they never recorded any type of measurement. As far as I'm concerned the ref could just be covering his own ***. Multiple game officials and Jim "the deflator" McNally witnessed Anderson testing the footballs, and there are marks on the game balls indicating that they had been cleared. Honestly, this is getting into 9/11 truther territory. But why not record the PSI if you knew you'd be testing them at halftime? And why not recheck the PSIs after the game balls supposedly went missing. Seems like common sense. This is not me making excuses for the Pats at all; it's more of a criticism of Anderson for being terrible at his job, and get another black mark on the NFL's handling of...uh...everything. (And I'm not a conspiracy guy, but it lends some credence to the notion that this was a sting operation.) |
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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 11:00:02 GMT -5
As discussed in the report, game officials never customarily record the PSI when they test the balls prior to the game, because it had never been an issue up to that point.
When the pre-game testing occurred, the officials did not know that they would be testing the balls again at halftime. The halftime testing only occurred because the Colts felt that the intercepted ball was underinflated and requested that NFL personnel test the balls at halftime.
The officials did not recheck the PSIs after the balls went missing prior to the game because at that point, the game was starting in 5 minutes and they weren't going to hold up the start of a playoff game because they were prematurely taken to the field. Honestly, if they had delayed the game to recheck the balls at that point, it would be far more suggestive of a sting operation.
I did not find anything in the report which cast Walt Anderson or the rest of the referees in any negative light whatsoever. It may well have been somewhat of a sting by NFL officials (insofar as they knew about the Colts' suspicions ahead of time and did not warn the Patriots ahead of time), but there is very little indication that Anderson is "terrible at his job."
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on May 7, 2015 11:24:25 GMT -5
As discussed in the report, game officials never customarily record the PSI when they test the balls prior to the game, because it had never been an issue up to that point. When the pre-game testing occurred, the officials did not know that they would be testing the balls again at halftime. The halftime testing only occurred because the Colts felt that the intercepted ball was underinflated and requested that NFL personnel test the balls at halftime. The officials did not recheck the PSIs after the balls went missing prior to the game because at that point, the game was starting in 5 minutes and they weren't going to hold up the start of a playoff game because they were prematurely taken to the field. Honestly, if they had delayed the game to recheck the balls at that point, it would be far more suggestive of a sting operation. I did not find anything in the report which cast Walt Anderson or the rest of the referees in any negative light whatsoever. It may well have been somewhat of a sting by NFL officials (insofar as they knew about the Colts' suspicions ahead of time and did not warn the Patriots ahead of time), but there is very little indication that Anderson is "terrible at his job." You've reached some bizarre conclusions. The officials were warned ahead of time by the Colts, so it's incredibly naive to think they weren't planning on testing the footballs at halftime. The Colts interception was probably just the convenient excuse they needed. And by that same token, if suspicions were already raised, then wouldn't it make sense to delay the game if the game balls mysteriously went missing? (Or, even better, not allow the game balls to go missing). If the integrity of the game really mattered that much, you delay the game for a few minutes AND catch the Patriots in the act. |
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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 11:59:10 GMT -5
I thought you said you weren't a conspiracy theorist? Occum's razor would come in handy here.
The referees were never warned specifically by the Colts about underinflation of the Patriots' game balls. Page 48 of the report details how an NFL official mentioned in passing to Anderson that there were concerns about the game balls (note: nothing specific mentioned about the inflation of the balls) and that Anderson should be sure to follow proper pre-game procedures (note: nothing specific mentioned about the Patriots in particular). That was the extent of Anderson's knowledge about any such concerns prior to the game.
As such, there would have been no reason for him to write down the pregame PSIs, since, as mentioned, it's not something the referees customarily write down. Similarly, there would have been no reason to delay the game because the game balls were missing for five minutes. Yes, it raised a minor red flag, but given what Anderson knew about the situation at the time, it would have been extraordinarily aggressive to delay the start of the game to re-test the air pressure solely based off that minor discrepency.
Like I said: you can criticize the NFL executives (Gardi, Kensil, et. al.), and their actions do seem suggestive of some sort of sting. But Anderson and the other referees did nothing wrong.
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Post by mgoetze on May 7, 2015 12:17:16 GMT -5
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Post by benjaminbuttons on May 7, 2015 16:52:36 GMT -5
None of you seem like the Stoolie type, but Portnoy on Felger and Mazz tomorrow should be electric.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 7, 2015 19:23:33 GMT -5
I would have loved to be a fly on the wall around Ted Wells the last few months. Regardless of what you think happened, I have no doubt that Wells took a lot more of a biased prosecutorial approach to this report than an unbiased journalistic approach.
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Post by jimed14 on May 8, 2015 8:43:46 GMT -5
Lost in this absurdly stupid deflategate non-scandal is the fact that the NFL actually allows teams to handle the balls at all. If it's so #$#*$&*$&@#$ important to the integrity of the game, why do they? Hint, it's not a meaningful advantage.
As I said about 8 pages ago, every team does this at every level. It doesn't matter. What is unfair about it? Why is there even a rule about it? What is next? Brady jaywalking?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 8, 2015 10:21:17 GMT -5
Moved this to its own thread.
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Post by jmei on May 8, 2015 10:41:23 GMT -5
Yeah, I definitely think there is a lot of truth to this being exaggerated by it being the Patriots, who have a history of both success and shadiness. In the grand scheme of things, this was a pretty minor violation, certainly no worse than the Falcons piping in artificial crowd noise or the various teams who have tried to circumvent the salary cap.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 8, 2015 11:06:09 GMT -5
CBS is saying Brady could be suspended for up to a year.
And people wonder why I like the MLB and NBA more than the NFL.
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Post by jimed14 on May 8, 2015 11:08:03 GMT -5
CBS is saying Brady could be suspended for up to a year. And people wonder why I like the MLB and NBA more than the NFL. That's just absurd. |
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 8, 2015 11:31:42 GMT -5
CBS is saying Brady could be suspended for up to a year. And people wonder why I like the MLB and NBA more than the NFL. That's just absurd. I'm honestly kind of shocked how strong the hatred is for the Patriots even on mainsteam media outlets. Its kind of depressing. |
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Post by beasleyrockah on May 8, 2015 11:56:23 GMT -5
I think the most unfair part of this situation is Brady's refusal to turn over texts/emails qualifying as conduct detrimental and being the grounds for his possible suspension. Why should he trust all his private messages and pictures to be protected and kept private by these random investigators? The league office had leaks every day about the investigation, I wouldn't trust them to snoop around my private messages and I'm not a superstar QB. Regardless of Brady's guilt/innocence, I think it's far more likely he wanted to keep his private messages private than trying to cover up texts/emails about cheating. Can anyone imagine Brady texting about breaking rules (and even if he was that stupid I think he'd use a burner or an alternate email)? The league office is never transparent in their process, yet players need to make their entire personal lives accessible. I'm sick of hearing from the "if you don't have any to hide" crowd, I'm pretty sure everyone has conversations with friends and family they wouldn't want to share with strangers.
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Post by benjaminbuttons on May 8, 2015 13:05:03 GMT -5
CBS is saying Brady could be suspended for up to a year. And people wonder why I like the MLB and NBA more than the NFL. Im expecting it to be a game and i honestly think it might be a blessing in disguise. We get a look at Jimmy G. and Brady returns from his suspension with a battery in his back. |
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Post by ray88h66 on May 8, 2015 13:47:31 GMT -5
I'm hoping for a short suspension and not a year. I'll guess 4 games.
Not getting into the fairness or lack there of. I think the home town blinders are on and most can't step back and see how the rest of country sees this. I do worry the punishment will be harsher because of the Pat's past.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 8, 2015 15:36:38 GMT -5
Patriots are bracing for 6-8 games according to Tom E Curran.
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Post by jimed14 on May 8, 2015 15:38:08 GMT -5
Why is it a rule?
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on May 8, 2015 15:55:17 GMT -5
The Wells report says the referees inflated the Patriots balls to between 13 and 13.5 psi at halftime. Given the cold and rain science would suggest that there would have been some psi loss in the second half. However, there were a number of Patriots balls which were measured higher than 13.5 psi post AFCCG. How is that plausible?
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 8, 2015 16:07:18 GMT -5
The Wells report says the referees inflated the Patriots balls to between 13 and 13.5 psi at halftime. Given the cold and rain science would suggest that there would have been some psi loss in the second half. However, there were a number of Patriots balls which were measured higher than 13.5 psi post AFCCG. How is that plausible? Air pressure measurement is a far less precise science than this report represents? |
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on May 8, 2015 16:18:27 GMT -5
My car tires lose pressure in the winter when it is cold. Doesn't seem plausible to me that psi would increase when balls were inflated at approximately 72 degrees indoors and then kept outside for 2 hours at 50 degrees and raining.
This was a bag job from the beginning with the conclusion written around a bunch of assumptions and incomplete information.
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Post by dridiot on May 8, 2015 17:56:59 GMT -5
Lost in this absurdly stupid deflategate non-scandal is the fact that the NFL actually allows teams to handle the balls at all. If it's so #$#*$&*$&@#$ important to the integrity of the game, why do they? Hint, it's not a meaningful advantage. As I said about 8 pages ago, every team does this at every level. It doesn't matter. What is unfair about it? Why is there even a rule about it? What is next? Brady jaywalking? I think this is the only good real defense here, which is, how important is the rule? It's either not important or the NFL looks really bad. The problem is Brady mishandled this one so, so badly. Now he looks bad, the NFL can play this off like it's a horrible thing and reinforce this perception by punishing him. It does sound an awful lot like he lied, and tried to cover it up. Sometimes trying to cover up a transgression looks worse than the actual transgression. It's all about perceptions with the NFL. |
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Post by onbase on May 30, 2015 14:46:43 GMT -5
I got curious what the reaction / thinking was over here among the statistically inclined, and I must say I'm really surprised. For starters, I've seen no mention of Mike Reiss's observation about the validity of comparing pressure change averages of 11 Pats balls and only 4 Colts balls. Then there's the matter of which gauge was used when. One measured consistently higher than the other and yet in the Wells report it appears they may have compared the average pressure loss of the Pats balls as measured by the "high" gauge before the game compared to the "low" gauge measurement at half time. Comparing measurements taken by the same gauge before and after has the average psi loss well within the predictable range for the game's weather conditions. You don't have to buy wellsreportcontext.com/ in its entirety, but what's actually probable? I'm not convinced there was any intentional deflation at all. First the evidence says there's no advantage to be gained, second the numbers don't prove intention, third - would Tom Brady allow the two yahoos we've come to know via their middle school level texting to help him cheat? For what it's worth, I admire the hard work and talent, but don't particularly like TB. I like baseball. |
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