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Post by jmei on May 6, 2015 12:55:06 GMT -5
Tom Brady, dirty dirty cheater.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 6, 2015 13:06:15 GMT -5
Tom Brady, dirty dirty cheater. I fear Brady will be suspended after reading about it. For at least a game or two. The trouble is, our opening night game is against Pittsburgh. |
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Post by ramireja on May 6, 2015 13:45:38 GMT -5
Everything is still so speculative. My best guess after reading the Wells Report, is that yes, Brady likes the footballs to be inflated towards the league minimum. Yes, he's aware of this and the people involved in this process. What I'm not convinced on, is that Brady deployed a scheme to ensure that the footballs were actually underinflated below the league minimum. That still seems farfetched to me.
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Post by chavopepe2 on May 6, 2015 13:54:37 GMT -5
Everything is still so speculative. My best guess after reading the Wells Report, is that yes, Brady likes the footballs to be inflated towards the league minimum. Yes, he's aware of this and the people involved in this process. What I'm not convinced on, is that Brady deployed a scheme to ensure that the footballs were actually underinflated below the league minimum. That still seems farfetched to me. Is there any evidence we don't know in the report? |
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Post by mgoetze on May 6, 2015 13:56:17 GMT -5
Email from Grigson to the league office:
The thing is still, if it's well known around the league, why do you have to conduct a sting operation during the ****ing AFC championship game and what's well known around the league about what all the other teams do?
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on May 6, 2015 15:12:05 GMT -5
The problem with the NFL's evidence is that it doesn't exist.
Thanks for guaranteeing SB #5, Mr. Wells.
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Post by mgoetze on May 6, 2015 15:15:48 GMT -5
Well, I've made it through the executive summary, and Brady looks pretty bad. He may yet regret giving away those guarantees in his contract, I'm sure Belichick doesn't appreciate being lied to.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 6, 2015 16:12:48 GMT -5
Well, I've made it through the executive summary, and Brady looks pretty bad. He may yet regret giving away those guarantees in his contract, I'm sure Belichick doesn't appreciate being lied to. Because Belichick will...... bench him? Cut him? |
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Post by mgoetze on May 6, 2015 16:23:18 GMT -5
Well, I've made it through the executive summary, and Brady looks pretty bad. He may yet regret giving away those guarantees in his contract, I'm sure Belichick doesn't appreciate being lied to. Because Belichick will...... bench him? Cut him? Not right away, but certainly he'll be more inclined to cut him if performance deteriorates than he would have previously, and we are talking 3 years and an old quarterback. |
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Post by grandsalami on May 6, 2015 16:24:25 GMT -5
Because Belichick will...... bench him? Cut him? Not right away, but certainly he'll be more inclined to cut him if performance deteriorates than he would have previously, and we are talking 3 years and an old quarterback. no. Just no |
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Post by jmei on May 6, 2015 17:28:05 GMT -5
Everything is still so speculative. My best guess after reading the Wells Report, is that yes, Brady likes the footballs to be inflated towards the league minimum. Yes, he's aware of this and the people involved in this process. What I'm not convinced on, is that Brady deployed a scheme to ensure that the footballs were actually underinflated below the league minimum. That still seems farfetched to me. It seems pretty implausible that an equipment manager would, on his own initiative, illegally deflate the footballs below the league minimum after they've been signed off on by the referees without the knowledge and consent of the guy who benefits from the whole thing. No, there's no smoking gun, but just like in the Hernandez trial, all the circumstantial evidence points in that direction. |
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Post by ramireja on May 6, 2015 17:51:09 GMT -5
Everything is still so speculative. My best guess after reading the Wells Report, is that yes, Brady likes the footballs to be inflated towards the league minimum. Yes, he's aware of this and the people involved in this process. What I'm not convinced on, is that Brady deployed a scheme to ensure that the footballs were actually underinflated below the league minimum. That still seems farfetched to me. It seems pretty implausible that an equipment manager would, on his own initiative, illegally deflate the footballs below the league minimum after they've been signed off on by the referees without the knowledge and consent of the guy who benefits from the whole thing. No, there's no smoking gun, but just like in the Hernandez trial, all the circumstantial evidence points in that direction. That leads me then to the question: Were the Pats playing with underinflated footballs for the entire year, or even further, for Brady's entire career? Because it seems equally implausible that Brady would request to have the footballs deflated to a level below that which is accustomed to. Now perhaps the answer to that is yes, this deflating procedure had been going on all year without a hitch. However, based on the texts, I think a plausible scenario is that Brady had been upset when the footballs were above the minimum PSI, or perhaps towards the max PSI, as I think one text in particular referred to footballs that were inflated at almost 16 PSI. Therefore I think Brady's demands may have been more focused on ensuring that the footballs were around 12 PSI and not any higher. I supposed what I'm not convinced on, is that Brady specially wanted the footballs deflated to an illegal level. I'd also normally agree with you that "it seems pretty implausible that an equipment manager would, on his own initiative, illegally deflate the footballs below the league minimum without the knowledge and consent of the guy who benefits from the whole thing" up until I read quotes like "F&$! Tom" and "Tom sucks...I'm gonna make that next ball a f#$^in balloon" |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on May 6, 2015 17:54:48 GMT -5
I think the most plausible explanation is that every QB has a very specific preference, and the equipment managers act accordingly. If that wasn't the case, Brady and Peyton wouldn't have fought for a change in the rule back in '06 (or whenever it occurred).
I think the remarkable thing here is that other QBs (Rodgers and Eli, to name two) are on record talking about how they push the envelope on this rule...and no one cares one bit. The league certainly couldn't be bothered to look into it, that's for sure.
This whole thing is too laughably stupid to even care about.
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Post by ramireja on May 6, 2015 17:59:48 GMT -5
I think the thing that isn't terribly clear to me, is to what extent the referees inflate/deflate as they give the final preparations. Some of the texts indicate that the refs have considerable influence and may inflate the footballs considerably after they've been delivered to them. To that degree, it seems like Tom had been working with these guys to ensure that the balls were close to 12 PSI, almost as a way to correct for the inflation carried out by the refs. Its still not clear to me that Tom would be requesting <12 PSI.
But yes, I agree with wcp3 that this is laughably stupid once you take a step back and analyze this in the context of the league's norms, and the impact or advantage that this might have on the game itself.
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Post by dridiot on May 6, 2015 18:27:39 GMT -5
Didn't they win the Super Bowl with rigorously tested footballs?
I mean, it's a game, run by an autocratic and laughably arbitrary league. Take whatever punishment comes their way, and move on.
I think Brady said, this isn't ISIS, which is self-serving sure, but it's true, no one's getting hurt (unlike with the concussions, and the domestic violence) the and in the end does this make football less fun to watch? For anyone? I don't think so. It just gives people something to gripe about, which is fine too I guess. The bottom line is I don't know anyone who is saying "I might stop watching football because the game lacks integrity."
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Post by jmei on May 6, 2015 19:02:30 GMT -5
This is fairly compelling and has led me to reconsider my view somewhat. I still think the evidence is pretty strong, but it's not ironclad.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on May 6, 2015 19:26:46 GMT -5
The nonexistent evidence is strong?
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Post by jmei on May 6, 2015 19:48:36 GMT -5
The texts are pretty compelling.
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Post by dridiot on May 6, 2015 20:35:10 GMT -5
The texts are pretty compelling. I agree it's pretty damning. I'm not really liking the wholesale denial by Pats fans. I mean, the fans didn't cheat, so there's no need for fans to be so defensive. If this were any other team we'd probably be like "yeah probably cheated." I was watching the AFC game in Oakland in a bar and the guy next to me brought up (what else) the tuck rule. My friend told him don't hate the player, hate the rule and he kinda laughed and was like, well, we should've won right? And my friend said yeah, you should've won, but we won. And the guy was cool with that. I mean, I think everyone recognizes that this stuff happens, but the denial just gives them more fuel to go on. Either way, fans are always going to jeer, but it's part of the game, right? The deflated balls don't take away the Super Bowl, which we won, that's the important thing |
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on May 6, 2015 20:37:17 GMT -5
Denying what? I have no doubt Brady mandates how much he wants the footballs inflated. No doubt at all.
But the report had pretty much nothing conclusive. It made a lot of assumptions and connected a lot of dots that were too far apart.
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Post by costpet on May 7, 2015 6:08:40 GMT -5
Say what you want, but this is not a court of law. It's a league thing and they can do what they want. Goodall will be under pressure to punish someone. He can't punish the flunkies who did it, but he can fine the team. And he can suspend Brady, which will probably happen. It's just a matter of how many games. I'm guessing 1-2. If it's more, he might just walk away from the game. He has plenty of money and doesn't need the grief. I think you should plan on Jimmy G. starting against Pittsburgh. Sad, but true.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,860
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Post by wcp3 on May 7, 2015 7:41:01 GMT -5
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Post by greatscottcooper on May 7, 2015 7:51:10 GMT -5
The texts and circumstantial evidence is strong if you believe in the narrative that Tom Brady cheated. Now I'm not saying he didn't, but all bias aside NONE of those texts directly mention anything about cheating. They just point out that Tom is a stickler about his balls and likes his balls a certain way. It makes perfect sense that a QB would be trying to get the ball boys to get the balls to his liking. That doesn't mean after the balls were checked they took additional air out.
This is what probably happened. The refs never checked the balls before the game (shame on them). The balls were all inflated between 12.10-13 PSI, with the mean being around 12.5. The refs signed off on the balls that were between 12.1-12.5 PSI those balls fell below a range were a drop in temperature of 23 degrees should allow them to go, 9-12 did not.
Media goes crazy.
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Post by jmei on May 7, 2015 8:06:44 GMT -5
This is what probably happened. The refs never checked the balls before the game (shame on them). There is a wealth of documentary and testimonial evidence presented in the Wells Report that Walt Anderson properly checked the footballs before the game. |
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Post by greatscottcooper on May 7, 2015 8:47:33 GMT -5
This is what probably happened. The refs never checked the balls before the game (shame on them). There is a wealth of documentary and testimonial evidence presented in the Wells Report that Walt Anderson properly checked the footballs before the game. What evidence? they never recorded any type of measurement. As far as I'm concerned the ref could just be covering his own ***. |
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