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What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 12, 2016 15:20:53 GMT -5
The skills for judging high fly balls are not the same as the quick reactions needed for ground balls, not at all. Anyone who's played the game will vouch for that. Judging him solely by last year's worst-of-his-career defensive WAR, a lost soul out there in leftfield, is a little shortsighted. He's never been great, but he wasn't exactly the worst SS in the world either, typically coming in somewhere around a game below average. The defensive stats are not the most reliable numbers in the world, but I've watched him make fantastic plays, as well as lose his focus and muff easier ones. He has the reactions, and they may work well enough at first base. My darker vision is that he hurts himself trying to make a play at the tarp, or up against the stands. That, I think, is a bigger concern.
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Post by larrycook on Jan 12, 2016 22:17:42 GMT -5
I really think that when he hit that wall the first time, 2 things happened. First, he was hurt more than he let on and second he lost a ton of confidence.
A move to first may not be the best thing for the team, but hopefully he can be an average first baseman defensively in 2016 while bouncing back offensively.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 13, 2016 12:08:20 GMT -5
Hanley has learned how to do the most difficult thing in all of sports, and do it an elite level. More difficult than playing quarterback in the NFL? Really? (Also, perhaps an easier to compare example, playing goalie in soccer or handball seems more difficult as well. Volleyball backfield defense could be in the conversation. Or extreme kayaking.)
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jan 13, 2016 12:18:41 GMT -5
Hanley has learned how to do the most difficult thing in all of sports, and do it an elite level. More difficult than playing quarterback in the NFL? Really? (Also, perhaps an easier to compare example, playing goalie in soccer or handball seems more difficult as well. Volleyball backfield defense could be in the conversation. Or extreme kayaking.) I think this goes to the "hitting a round ball with a round bat" deal. IMO this is the hardest thing to do in all of sports.
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Post by rafael on Jan 13, 2016 14:39:03 GMT -5
Playing goalie in football and handball is WAY easier than hitting a baseball.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Jan 13, 2016 15:18:32 GMT -5
Not that one case can speak for them all, but Michael Jordan, who's sometimes called the greatest athlete (or one of them) of all time, didn't exactly tear it up in his short baseball career.
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texs31
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Post by texs31 on Jan 13, 2016 15:54:53 GMT -5
How many things can you do successfully 30% of the time and be considered one of the best?
Yup. It's hard.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jan 13, 2016 17:09:18 GMT -5
Motivating yourself to practice and learn something is not independent of your natural skills at it. The biggest motivator for continued practice is success. You have to be able to say to yourself, hey, I have the skills to do this, I'm learning it, I'm getting better, and if I continue practicing, I will become good. If, instead, you are saying to yourself, I can't do this, I don't seem to have the basic skills, the obvious next thought is, further practice seems almost pointless. Put more simply, your further practice time is a function of how encouraging versus discouraging your past practice has been. Hanley has learned how to do the most difficult thing in all of sports, and do it an elite level. I sincerely doubt that his makeup is lacking in the general desire to practice and learn. After the discouraging debacle of trying to learn LF, being given a chance to learn something that he actually has the skills to learn might well be a very different story. Sure, in theory and in general, that's all true. In this particular case, it's pure conjecture. It may be correct conjecture, but there's no real evidence for it either way. Hanley had some questions about his makeup and, ah, stick-to-itiveness back when he was in Portland (and earlier, I just ran across it personally in Portland). And questions about effort have dogged him, even though he seems to work out very aggressively and keep himself in shape very well. Now, it's entirely possible that he doesn't deal with things that are particularly hard for him - relative to other players - as well as some, and that's what's going on here. He's naturally talented at hitting, so even though it's hard in an absolute sense, it's easier for him than others. But, when he looks bad compared to the people around him (like in learning the outfield), he's more likely to shut down. I dunno, all of this is a little too far into remote psychoanalysis. As I said, I actually expect the experiment to work and for him to be ok at first (Miguel Cabrera can handle it, after all), but I just think there's ample reason for concern and no real way of assuaging those concerns until he gets out there and looks good at first base.
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Post by mgoetze on Jan 13, 2016 17:26:57 GMT -5
Playing goalie in football and handball is WAY easier than hitting a baseball. Have you ever blocked a penalty kick? How about a penalty kick from a professional player? Anyone can just stand in front of a goal, just like anyone can stand in a batting cage and hit a 60 mph middle-middle fastball. That's not what I'm talking about.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 13, 2016 18:11:36 GMT -5
How many things can you do successfully 30% of the time and be considered one of the best? Yup. It's hard. There are an almost unlimited number of things in sports that the very best athletes accomplish in far fewer than 30% of their attempts. Sacking a quarterback. Scoring a goal in a World Cup match. Winning a F1 race. Breaking almost any sort of world record. Hell, you can come up with examples in baseball. What about robbing a home run? What about striking a batter out? A 25% strikeout rate is harder to come by than a .250 batting average... Hitting a baseball is super hard, but the "hardest thing in sports" thing is silly and meaningless.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Jan 13, 2016 19:31:33 GMT -5
The hardest thin is sport is clearly understanding how scoring in Cricket is done.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jan 13, 2016 20:26:05 GMT -5
Ted Williams' somewhat self-serving claim that hitting a round ball with a round bat was hardest thing in sports came back when most other major-league sports were fairly primitive.
Possibly we could say that, given a round bat and a round ball, the hardest thing in sports is to bat 600 times and get on base half the time. After 1900 it's only been done by Ruth (5x), Williams (2x), Mantle and Hornsby (those two once each), and some guy on steroids with a giant head.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 13, 2016 20:54:41 GMT -5
The hardest thin is sport is clearly understanding how scoring in Cricket is done. Actually, according to one book, Wilt Chamberlain is.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 13, 2016 21:04:03 GMT -5
WHAT no Brennan Boesch love??
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Post by ryantoworkman on Jan 13, 2016 21:46:51 GMT -5
John Havlicek was All American at Ohio State in Basketball and baseball. I remember years ago, during a Superstars broadcast he was asked why he chose basketball over baseball. He answered that nothing in sports was harder than hitting a baseball thrown by the most talented atheletes.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 13, 2016 22:06:43 GMT -5
It's kind of just down to the athlete, right? If you're Tom Brady, hitting a baseball is much harder than hitting a receiver 20 yards downfield. That's not the case if you're Dustin Pedroia.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jan 14, 2016 0:52:05 GMT -5
What is this, National Specious Comparison Week?
First of all, the phrase "thing in sports" is usually meant to refer to a single skill, and furthermore, one which is central to the sport, and to succeeding at it. That eliminates a lot of the proposed alternatives.
Hitting a receiver 20 yards downfield passes that test (no pun intended). I'm unaware, however, that Tom Brady needed to try to do that 1500 to 2000 times in a series of minor professional leagues, against increasingly tougher competition, before he could do that in the NFL without suffering humiliating failure.
Hitting a baseball is so much harder than the other central skills of the major U.S. sports (except pitching, which is second) that it's almost embarrassing to the others. In no other sport do the best college athletes routinely need 2 to 4 more years of minor league experience, without which they would be entirely overmatched in the pros. In no other sport is there even a set of graded minor leagues to progress through, and which attract many elite athletes in lieu of college. Playing baseball objectively has a much more difficult set of skills to master.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jan 14, 2016 2:39:34 GMT -5
Come on folks, baseball is by far the hardest sport in which to excel, especially as a position player. No other sport requires as many different skills to be successful. Hitting a round ball with a round bat is just one of them. Fielding a ball coming at you at 90-100 MPH is another. Throwing a runner out is another. Catching a fly ball hit from 380 feet away is another.
Baseball requires fast reflexes, great muscle memory, arm strength, good legs, great eyesight and great instincts. Other sports like football and hockey may be tougher on the body but the skills required to be successful are more limited. I think hockey might be the second toughest sport because it is so fast.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 14, 2016 7:22:34 GMT -5
WHAT no Brandon Boesch love?? I think Over the Monster put it best yesterday when they said, "Welcome to the team, Brennan Boesch. As we say to all players in your position, we hope to never see you in Fenway." link
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Post by sox fan in nc on Jan 14, 2016 9:48:57 GMT -5
Come on folks, baseball is by far the hardest sport in which to excel, especially as a position player. No other sport requires as many different skills to be successful. Hitting a round ball with a round bat is just one of them. Fielding a ball coming at you at 90-100 MPH is another. Throwing a runner out is another. Catching a fly ball hit from 380 feet away is another. Baseball requires fast reflexes, great muscle memory, arm strength, good legs, great eyesight and great instincts. Other sports like football and hockey may be tougher on the body but the skills required to be successful are more limited. I think hockey might be the second toughest sport because it is so fast. Just to add to that skill, hitting that ball that is coming @ 95 mph & IS MOVING. Tim Wakefield talked about this when he watched from a distance, it didn't look as difficult as when you were at the plate & then it was insanely more difficult. I go to minor league games (Hi-A) & sit off the catchers shoulder & I don't know how the reaction time is met by the hitter. I think it's like .03 seconds to DECIDE whether or not to swing.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jan 14, 2016 9:58:09 GMT -5
The biggest counter argument is that Luke Scott could kind of do it well, so everyone should be able to because Luke Scott is the world's least valuable human.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 14, 2016 10:22:20 GMT -5
I don't really care too much about this argument, but I find hitting a golf ball where it's supposed to go is a lot harder than hitting a baseball used to be when I was in my 20s. Then again, a golf swing is totally unnatural when you're used to swinging a bat.
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Post by ramireja on Jan 14, 2016 10:23:49 GMT -5
The biggest counter argument is that Luke Scott could kind of do it well, so everyone should be able to because Luke Scott is the world's least valuable human. You know, I hadn't really thought about it like this.....but now that I do....well, you're completely right.
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Post by bigpupp on Jan 14, 2016 11:42:41 GMT -5
Not that one case can speak for them all, but Michael Jordan, who's sometimes called the greatest athlete (or one of them) of all time, didn't exactly tear it up in his short baseball career. I mean, the stats weren't amazing, but to take a 31 year old who has never played professionally and put him in AA he did pretty damn well for himself. Even stole 30 bases that year. I would love to know what he could have done had played professionally out of high school.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jan 14, 2016 15:00:45 GMT -5
I don't really care too much about this argument, but I find hitting a golf ball where it's supposed to go is a lot harder than hitting a baseball used to be when I was in my 20s. Then again, a golf swing is totally unnatural when you're used to swinging a bat. I can almost always feel my golf swing reverting to some sort of baseball swing motion, which probably contributes significantly to any struggles keeping it straight, especially off the tee. I've played a hell of a lot more baseball than golf in my life, so it makes sense. If I played golf every weekend and hit the range every week, I'm sure it would become more "natural" and less of a baseball swing feel
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