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What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 16, 2015 23:49:11 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not really a philosophical thing-- they've sometimes traded prospects/young players (Masterson, Rizzo, Reddick, Lowrie, Iglesias, De La Rosa) and sometimes kept them. The argument instead boils down to "be better at player evaluation." Which is a very fair basis to criticize Cherington and the rest of the front office for-- of the recent signings and acquisitions, most look bad (Hanley, Sandoval, Porcello, Miley, Breslow, Kelly, Craig). But those failures are failures of execution, not of strategy. This isn't Amaro and his unwillingness to rebuild (see: the Pinto trade or last year's trade deadline) or Jack Z and his obsession with right-handed power. I don't see a systemic bias, just a lot of individual bad decisions. ADD: the one thing you could maybe accuse them of is being overreactionary. Not enough offense and too many young players last year, so a few big contracts to veteran hitters last offseason. That's why I would be disappointed if they threw $200m at Price or Cueto this offseason. If you believe in a philosophy, one year of bad results shouldn't be enough to get you to abandon it. [ It is a philosophical thing. Most of the time attempting to trade your veteran talent for other veterans and supplementing that with expensive free agents won't work. You can't get out of last place by doing that. For that to work you need to evaluate the other team's veterans better than they do. Clearly the Tigers and Cadinals knew more about Kelly, Craig, and Porcello than we did.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 16, 2015 23:56:00 GMT -5
I do think that maybe they shouldn't have ignored the questions of defense Where were you in the offseason when everyone on this forum was excited about how good the defense was going to be this year? Don't really remember that, although it obviously looked far better than its been on paper. That being said, sticking Hanley in left was probably not very well thought out. Hindsight being 20/20, we probably would've been far better off going into the season with Jackie Bradley penciled into an outfield spot and only one of Sandoval/Hanley signed to play 3B. I got a little caught up in the hype of how good the offense was going to be at the time, but it's pretty obvious that having the outfield defense that Bradley, Mookie, anad Victorino/Castillo/whoever else ended up in RF would've given us would've made a huge difference, and might not have even cost us that much offensively.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2015 0:48:03 GMT -5
Nobody disagrees that they've clogged the payroll with several expensive pieces of cheese in the last year. But I think there are two under-rated and related factors playing a big role in the current crapshow. One is that they have had trouble turning touted prospects into actual productive ML players, especially in the pitching department. RDLR and Webster were supposed to have at least middle-of-the rotation potential and neither one fulfilled that with the RS. Boras managed to extract a big bonus from his buddy Theo for Renaudo, a 1S pick. The kid got to the show and we saw that he had mediocre stuff. Barnes was a No. 1 pick and now we're thinking that his ceiling may be what? Useful reliever? X and Mookie are coming along nicely, but JBJ is 25 and will probably get only one more extended opportunity with the big club. When Bryce Brentz was drafted (1S) we heard about his great power potential. He's barely even a prospect now. That brings me to the second point. Ben has said he prefers to hoard prospects rather than trade them for vets. The problem is he's held onto some of these kids to the point where they have no value. Cecchini, Coyle, Brentz, Renaudo and others all could have been used at one time as part of a package to bring in some useful veteran pieces.In hindsight, sure, but the whole reason they had value back then is because they looked like better prospects at the time, which is also a reason not to trade them. If Cecchini had been traded at the peak of his value, this board would have gone ballistic about BC gutting the farm and selling out the team's future. Complaints of the Red Sox "hoarding" prospects are really dumb. The young core this team is assembling is the only thing we have to feel good about. It's why the franchise isn't doomed to wander in the darkness for the next five years despite all the things going wrong right now. Can you imagine if Betts had been traded for Hamels? Being generous, they'd be seven games under .500 instead of ten, and they'd be older. Does anyone think that's a better scenario? That's rich. Give me a break. Cecchini has never had power and he's always been a question mark on defense. So, the guy's entire value has always been predicated on him being the second coming of Wade Boggs. Cecchini was, even at the time, EXACTLY the kind of prospect that you trade - Because even if the stars aligned perfectly for him, he was still going to be a flawed major leaguer. This isn't a question of winning popularity contests. It's a question of opportunity cost.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2015 6:14:32 GMT -5
On the one hand, you're second-guessing the inability to trade prospects who might otherwise wash out for useful veteran pieces. On the other, you're second guessing the trades of Ranaudo, RDLR and Webster for potentially useful veteran pieces. You do realize that most prospects do wash out, right? The fact that Brentz had power potential doesn't mean he's going to reach his potential. His hit tool has never improved from the time he was drafted. Somehow, that's Ben's fault? Sounds like Monday morning quarterbacking to me. If you learn to predict the future, let us know.Robbie Ross Jr. is a useful ML piece now? The Robbie Ross Jr. who has the ERA-plus of 84 and the WHIP of 1.55? Of course, he was coming off a huge 2014 (ERA-plus of 63, FIP of 4.74, WHIP of 1.7), so maybe that's what you're talking about. And you don't think they could have made better use of Renaudo as a chip to acquire assets back when he was a more highly-touted prospect? My criticism is that it seems that Ben has erred too much on the side of holding onto guys until their value drops rather than cashing them in earlier. And yes, of course most prospects wash out. The point is that it's important to have some ability to forecast which ones have the best shot to make it and which ones don't, all the while understanding that it's a very imprecise science. The best organizations are going to get it wrong sometimes. But you want to avoid putting Jeff Bagwell in a trade for a middle reliever when another prospect might get the deal done as often as you can. Regarding the bolded part, fans can't expect their FO to predict the future any more than JWH can expect his hedge fund managers to predict every asset that's going to soar and every one that's going to tank. But we should want our FO to be good at evaluating assets and making sound decisions based on those evaluations. Wow, as I write this the MFY are getting absolutely creamed in the first inning - an 8-spot for the Fish. This kind of thinking makes it a lot more likely that they miss out on guys they shouldn't have traded. We hold onto these prospects for that reason. So even if we wind up holding onto busts, we also get to keep Xander, Mookie, Blake and Eduardo instead of trading away Reddick (who would be nice to have right now) or Rizzo.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 17, 2015 6:25:37 GMT -5
I do think there were some prospects they could have sold high on. There were major questions about Checchini and Middlebrooks immediately following their breakout seasons on 2012 and 2013 respectively.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 17, 2015 6:54:23 GMT -5
I do think there were some prospects they could have sold high on. There were major questions about Checchini and Middlebrooks immediately following their breakout seasons on 2012 and 2013 respectively. Major questions that you saw, the Red Sox FO should have seen, but none of the other teams could possibly have noticed?
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Post by stevedillard on Jun 17, 2015 7:22:52 GMT -5
I think Marrero at 24 is getting to the point where there is no spot for him and any value starts to decline.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jun 17, 2015 7:23:32 GMT -5
I do think there were some prospects they could have sold high on. There were major questions about Checchini and Middlebrooks immediately following their breakout seasons on 2012 and 2013 respectively. Major questions that you saw, the Red Sox FO should have seen, but none of the other teams could possibly have noticed? It is surprising to me that nobody (Fangraphs, BP) has done an analysis of the expected return of prospects vs. veterans in trades. It should be relatively straight-forward just time-consuming.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 17, 2015 7:47:49 GMT -5
In hindsight, sure, but the whole reason they had value back then is because they looked like better prospects at the time, which is also a reason not to trade them. If Cecchini had been traded at the peak of his value, this board would have gone ballistic about BC gutting the farm and selling out the team's future. Complaints of the Red Sox "hoarding" prospects are really dumb. The young core this team is assembling is the only thing we have to feel good about. It's why the franchise isn't doomed to wander in the darkness for the next five years despite all the things going wrong right now. Can you imagine if Betts had been traded for Hamels? Being generous, they'd be seven games under .500 instead of ten, and they'd be older. Does anyone think that's a better scenario? That's rich. Give me a break. Cecchini has never had power and he's always been a question mark on defense. So, the guy's entire value has always been predicated on him being the second coming of Wade Boggs. Cecchini was, even at the time, EXACTLY the kind of prospect that you trade - Because even if the stars aligned perfectly for him, he was still going to be a flawed major leaguer. This isn't a question of winning popularity contests. It's a question of opportunity cost. Oh stop. He didn't have to be the next coming of Boggs; he could have been the next coming of Daniel Nava with sub-par defense at third and that would have been great. And again: I do think there were some prospects they could have sold high on. There were major questions about Checchini and Middlebrooks immediately following their breakout seasons on 2012 and 2013 respectively. Major questions that you saw, the Red Sox FO should have seen, but none of the other teams could possibly have noticed?
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Post by jmei on Jun 17, 2015 7:56:05 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not really a philosophical thing-- they've sometimes traded prospects/young players (Masterson, Rizzo, Reddick, Lowrie, Iglesias, De La Rosa) and sometimes kept them. The argument instead boils down to "be better at player evaluation." Which is a very fair basis to criticize Cherington and the rest of the front office for-- of the recent signings and acquisitions, most look bad (Hanley, Sandoval, Porcello, Miley, Breslow, Kelly, Craig). But those failures are failures of execution, not of strategy. This isn't Amaro and his unwillingness to rebuild (see: the Pinto trade or last year's trade deadline) or Jack Z and his obsession with right-handed power. I don't see a systemic bias, just a lot of individual bad decisions. ADD: the one thing you could maybe accuse them of is being overreactionary. Not enough offense and too many young players last year, so a few big contracts to veteran hitters last offseason. That's why I would be disappointed if they threw $200m at Price or Cueto this offseason. If you believe in a philosophy, one year of bad results shouldn't be enough to get you to abandon it. [ It is a philosophical thing. Most of the time attempting to trade your veteran talent for other veterans and supplementing that with expensive free agents won't work. You can't get out of last place by doing that. For that to work you need to evaluate the other team's veterans better than they do. Clearly the Tigers and Cadinals knew more about Kelly, Craig, and Porcello than we did. Eh, two moves don't make a philosophy, especially when they've simultaneously traded veterans for prospects as well (Rodriguez, Escobar/Hembree).
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 17, 2015 7:57:34 GMT -5
I do think there were some prospects they could have sold high on. There were major questions about Checchini and Middlebrooks immediately following their breakout seasons on 2012 and 2013 respectively. Major questions that you saw, the Red Sox FO should have seen, but none of the other teams could possibly have noticed? This idea that the market for players is perfectly efficient has got to stop. It's proven false all the time. Flawed players coming off remarkable seasons are often traded for more than they are worth. It happens all the time. i completely reject the idea that just because a players flaws are known that you can't sell high on the player. Front offices are run by humans who overreact to strong seasons and ignore evidence that the performance may not be sustainable.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 17, 2015 8:01:28 GMT -5
[ It is a philosophical thing. Most of the time attempting to trade your veteran talent for other veterans and supplementing that with expensive free agents won't work. You can't get out of last place by doing that. For that to work you need to evaluate the other team's veterans better than they do. Clearly the Tigers and Cadinals knew more about Kelly, Craig, and Porcello than we did. Eh, two moves don't make a philosophy, especially when they've simultaneously traded veterans for prospects as well (Rodriguez, Escobar/Hembree). But even the Peavy trade was for low ceiling upper minors arms who would perspectively help them the following year. It is a clear philosophy of the team to make moves that will perspectively help them the following year even when it's not prudent to do so.
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Post by jmei on Jun 17, 2015 8:12:42 GMT -5
Eh, two moves don't make a philosophy, especially when they've simultaneously traded veterans for prospects as well (Rodriguez, Escobar/Hembree). But even the Peavy trade was for low ceiling upper minors arms who would perspectively help them the following year. It is a clear philosophy of the team to make moves that will perspectively help them the following year even when it's not prudent to do so. Jake Peavy had a pretty bad start to the year and was on an expensive contract. They likely could not get anything better than two low-ceiling upper minors arms for him.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 17, 2015 9:42:27 GMT -5
Eh, two moves don't make a philosophy, especially when they've simultaneously traded veterans for prospects as well (Rodriguez, Escobar/Hembree). But even the Peavy trade was for low ceiling upper minors arms who would perspectively help them the following year. It is a clear philosophy of the team to make moves that will perspectively help them the following year even when it's not prudent to do so. What about the Miller deal? They dealt a guy who could've been easier to re-sign had they not traded him who definitely would've been useful in 2015 to a winning club for Eduardo Rodriguez, who they probably didn't expect to be ready for the majors at this stage. I feel pretty sure that the philosophy being implemented is search out the best deal you can get and take it. Fault the evaluation process all you want for getting Kelly and Craig for Lackey, or effectively winding up with Porcello for Lester, but there isn't a philosophy there of prioritizing the short term over the long term. You could very easily argue that if there were, they would've just bitten the bullet and given Lester $160mil in the offseason and kept Cespedes instead of getting Porcello and extending him
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 17, 2015 10:41:03 GMT -5
But even the Peavy trade was for low ceiling upper minors arms who would perspectively help them the following year. It is a clear philosophy of the team to make moves that will perspectively help them the following year even when it's not prudent to do so. What about the Miller deal? They dealt a guy who could've been easier to re-sign had they not traded him who definitely would've been useful in 2015 to a winning club for Eduardo Rodriguez, who they probably didn't expect to be ready for the majors at this stage. I feel pretty sure that the philosophy being implemented is search out the best deal you can get and take it. Fault the evaluation process all you want for getting Kelly and Craig for Lackey, or effectively winding up with Porcello for Lester, but there isn't a philosophy there of prioritizing the short term over the long term. You could very easily argue that if there were, they would've just bitten the bullet and given Lester $160mil in the offseason and kept Cespedes instead of getting Porcello and extending him The problem with Lester was not signing him before last season. Most think 6/120 would have gotten it done. We threw out the 4/70. Then, Detroit offered Scherzer 6/144m. He was headed to free-agency at that point.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 17, 2015 10:51:24 GMT -5
The problem with Lester was not signing him before last season. Most think 6/120 would have gotten it done. We threw out the 4/70. Then, Detroit offered Scherzer 6/144m. He was headed to free-agency at that point. Agreed, but my point was more that the FO doesn't have some philosophical aversion to thinking long-term. Once they screwed up the Lester negotiation, they didn't then say screw it and hamstring themselves financially for years by caving and giving him a huge long-term deal. They went out and decided to find cheapish, young starters with upside and years of team control, rather than cracking open the checkbook/stripping the farm system down for short-term success without thinking about the long-term. Since the Crawford signing, they haven't really given out one contract that looks/looked like a long-term albatross at the time, even though they've had plenty of opportunities (I'm reserving judgment on Sandoval and Hanley because there's a decent chance they end up performing roughly as expected over the lives of their deals)
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 17, 2015 11:06:14 GMT -5
The problem with Lester was not signing him before last season. Most think 6/120 would have gotten it done. We threw out the 4/70. Then, Detroit offered Scherzer 6/144m. He was headed to free-agency at that point. Agreed, but my point was more that the FO doesn't have some philosophical aversion to thinking long-term. Once they screwed up the Lester negotiation, they didn't then say screw it and hamstring themselves financially for years by caving and giving him a huge long-term deal. They went out and decided to find cheapish, young starters with upside and years of team control, rather than cracking open the checkbook/stripping the farm system down for short-term success without thinking about the long-term. Since the Crawford signing, they haven't really given out one contract that looks/looked like a long-term albatross at the time, even though they've had plenty of opportunities (I'm reserving judgment on Sandoval and Hanley because there's a decent chance they end up performing roughly as expected over the lives of their deals) I don't believe we've gone over 5 years with anyone other than Gonzo and Crawford since they bought the team. Gonzo's contract was fine given his performance. The ink wasn't dry on Crawford's before people started questioning his fit in Boston, and on the team. Already had Ellsbury and Pedey at the top of the line-up. I'm doubting any big signings given their history. It puts more pressure on the GM to come up with the correct short-term deals. My bad, Dice-k signed for 6
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 17, 2015 11:16:10 GMT -5
But even the Peavy trade was for low ceiling upper minors arms who would perspectively help them the following year. It is a clear philosophy of the team to make moves that will perspectively help them the following year even when it's not prudent to do so. Jake Peavy had a pretty bad start to the year and was on an expensive contract. They likely could not get anything better than two low-ceiling upper minors arms for him. Thst is a huge and untrue assumption on your part. They probably could have gotten higher ceiling arms from the low minors. Like it or not the evidence is clear. The Red Sox make moves that are aimed towards helping the the next seasons team regardless of the wisdom of doing so. It's a clear philosophy and I really don't see how it could realistically be argued otherwise.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jun 17, 2015 11:51:31 GMT -5
I am a great admirer of the St. Louis team and how they manage to be competitive year after year. In fact, I think in their entire history they only have finished last once or twice. Even through ownership and management changes they have kept the team competitive.
There was a time when most of their talent came from trades and free agent signings. Up until the early 2000s, their farm system was not highly ranked. But they made a decision to change and from then on have focused on building from within, occasionally making trades or signing a free agent. But basically relying on their farm system - and their development process - to produce most of their players. I think the 2011 team had 17 players from their farm system.
I don't know much about how they operate internally, but it seems pretty clear that they have management, scouting and coaching talent throughout their system. I think they are particularly good at evaluating their own players.
And despite the fact they seldom get a high draft choice, they have drafted well and their system continues to produce quality players.
The Red Sox are supposed to have a well-coordinated and managed farm system, but its production is not that great. Of course, this partly is due to some drafts simply not producing much talent. I went back through the drafts from 2005 to 2012 to see what quality players, players who became regulars in the majors, were produced.
(Note: In fairness, the draft is not the only source of amateur talent. The Sox have had some success getting players from the international pool, including Bogaerts and Tazawa.)
2005: Buchholz, Ellsbury, Lowrie 2006: Masterson, Reddick 2007: Middlebrooks, Rizzo 2008: Vazquez 2009: none 2010: Workman is the only one so far to see much time in the majors 2011: Swihart, Bradley, Betts and maybe Barnes (also Owens, and Shaw as likely futures) 2012: None yet, but possibles are Marrero, Johnson, Light and Buttrey
Of the standouts from these drafts, Buchholz, Ellsubry, Lowrie, Reddick, Rizzo Vazquez, Swihart, and Betts, four are playing for other teams.
The very recent drafts and international signings have produced quite a crop of extremely promising prospects, but nearly all are Greenville or below. There are very few players in A+, AA, or AAA who currently are projected to be regulars with the Sox.
Near-term (next year and the year after) better performance by the Sox is going to have to come from improved performance by existing players, and acquisition by trade and free agency of quality players.
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Post by thursty on Jun 17, 2015 12:20:49 GMT -5
I see this all the time on this board, i.e. the sophistry of "how can Ben be expected to know the future?" Of course it's expressed crassly, but how exactly are you to judge a GM? By how well they know the Basic Agreement? The intricacies of waiver regulations?
By that standard, every decision by every GM is inscrutable. How could Amaro know that signing Ryan Howard for 130m was a bad idea? Can he be expected to know the future?
Please. Player evaluation is the currency of being a GM; that entails being able to predict the future performance of player(s). Yeah, it's hard. But that is the job, all of this jejune sophistication notwithstanding.
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 17, 2015 12:31:03 GMT -5
Jake Peavy had a pretty bad start to the year and was on an expensive contract. They likely could not get anything better than two low-ceiling upper minors arms for him. Thst is a huge and untrue assumption on your part. They probably could have gotten higher ceiling arms from the low minors. Like it or not the evidence is clear. The Red Sox make moves that are aimed towards helping the the next seasons team regardless of the wisdom of doing so. It's a clear philosophy and I really don't see how it could realistically be argued otherwise. What evidence? You've basically cited one or two trades, while ignoring all of their other moves, their approach to free agency, and most of all, their decision to not trade prospects. If they were so philosophically dedicated to short-run success, wouldn't they have traded Xander mid-season of 2013 for an ace or an established bat? Wouldn't a Hamels/ace trade already have been done? There's a huge flaw in your argument. They make the moves they think are going to lead to sustainable success. They might not be making the right moves, but that's not the same question. There's absolutely no evidence that they have some kind of consistent philosophy to win now at all costs. They've made moves that could help them stay competitive in the short run without mortgaging the future. Beyond all the contradicting elements there, the evidence you're presenting doesn't even prove your point. Maybe they could've gotten higher ceiling low minors arms (although that's also a "huge assumption" on your part), but the fact that they elected to go with guys in the higher minors just signifies that they're somewhat risk averse when trading. If they'd gotten high-ceiling low minors arms, there's a pretty good chance they never would've gotten to AAA, let alone the majors. You can look at it as trying to win now, but it could just as easily be an effort to avoid risk
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 17, 2015 12:46:40 GMT -5
Thst is a huge and untrue assumption on your part. They probably could have gotten higher ceiling arms from the low minors. Like it or not the evidence is clear. The Red Sox make moves that are aimed towards helping the the next seasons team regardless of the wisdom of doing so. It's a clear philosophy and I really don't see how it could realistically be argued otherwise. What evidence? You've basically cited one or two trades, while ignoring all of their other moves, their approach to free agency, and most of all, their decision to not trade prospects. If they were so philosophically dedicated to short-run success, wouldn't they have traded Xander mid-season of 2013 for an ace or an established bat? Wouldn't a Hamels/ace trade already have been done? There's a huge flaw in your argument. They make the moves they think are going to lead to sustainable success. They might not be making the right moves, but that's not the same question. There's absolutely no evidence that they have some kind of consistent philosophy to win now at all costs. They've made moves that could help them stay competitive in the short run without mortgaging the future. Beyond all the contradicting elements there, the evidence you're presenting doesn't even prove your point. Maybe they could've gotten higher ceiling low minors arms (although that's also a "huge assumption" on your part), but the fact that they elected to go with guys in the higher minors just signifies that they're somewhat risk averse when trading. If they'd gotten high-ceiling low minors arms, there's a pretty good chance they never would've gotten to AAA, let alone the majors. You can look at it as trying to win now, but it could just as easily be an effort to avoid risk [ Some people on this board need to use some basic common senses. When was the last time the Red Sox traded for a player who was not projected to help the club the following year...short of trading DFAs or guys they just dumped. They have only once traded a major league player signed for the following year for prospects and even in that case they quickly turned both the savings and the prospects for more major league players. The idea that the Red Sox never had a chance to trade for players that were further away defies common sense. It's as if some of you are incapable of making any conclusions unless you have transcripts of phone conversations. The evidence is clear. The Red Sox only acquire non amateur talent that is projected to help the major league team within one year. Where is the evidence that they do otherwise?
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Post by ctfisher on Jun 17, 2015 13:11:09 GMT -5
Some people on this board need to use some basic common senses. When was the last time the Red Sox traded for a player who was not projected to help the club the following year...short of trading DFAs or guys they just dumped. They have only once traded a major league player signed for the following year for prospects and even in that case they quickly turned both the savings and the prospects for more major league players. The idea that the Red Sox never had a chance to trade for players that were further away defies common sense. It's as if some of you are incapable of making any conclusions unless you have transcripts of phone conversations. The evidence is clear. The Red Sox only acquire non amateur talent that is projected to help the major league team within one year. Where is the evidence that they do otherwise? I noticed you've changed the hypothesis but whatever. First off: last July, when they got Eduardo Rodriguez. Pretty simple, don't have to think too hard on that one. The fact that he's in the majors right now is immaterial, he wasn't projected to be when they acquired him. And why would you trade a player signed the following year if he's a good player? That makes no sense for a team with resources unless the team is a total teardown, and there's not much reason to think that it is with a bunch of young talent under team control for the next several years. Also, I'm not sure what trade you're referring too when they acquired prospects, but the one that comes to mind is the Punto trade, and those savings resulted in a World Series win, so I don't see why they'd change their philosophy. You cited them trying to the same thing since 2010 "and it hasn't worked." Really? Cause almost every other team in the majors would beg to differ and tell you that one championship in 4 seasons is a pretty solid result, especially when you have a lot of young talent still developing. Ok so you want them to take more risks; do you really think Jake Peavy was going to bring us back a future ace? Or even someone who profiled as a major league starting pitcher? He had an ERA well over 5 at the time he was traded if I remember correctly, and a history of injuries. Beyond that, in general, why would you trade established major league talent under team control for prospects when you have a stacked system with a lot of near-major league ready talent, and key pieces in place? That's not how the front office does business, you're right. They're not going to take a boom-or-bust guy (which most prospects, at their core, are) over proven commodities. That still doesn't mean they're prioritizing the present over the future, because as I said before, if they were, we wouldn't have one of the 5 best farm systems in the game.
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Post by jmei on Jun 17, 2015 13:37:47 GMT -5
The Red Sox haven't made many trades of veterans period, so the fact that they have not done so for lower-minors talent is not really that strong of an argument.
Not a trade, but committing $63m to Yoan Moncada rather than spending it on the major league roster seems like pretty strong evidence of long-term thinking.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jun 17, 2015 14:10:08 GMT -5
The Red Sox haven't made many trades of veterans period, so the fact that they have not done so for lower-minors talent is not really that strong of an argument. Not a trade, but committing $63m to Yoan Moncada rather than spending it on the major league roster seems like pretty strong evidence of long-term thinking. But that's in acquiring amateur talent which is completely different. Acquiring amateur free agent talent has no effect on the rest of the organization because you aren't choosing it over other talent. You can bet that if a player like Moncada required veteran talent to acquire, they never would have made such a deal. No one said that they don't think long-term at all. It is however very clear that when they are trading and acquiring professional players that they choose players whom they believe will help the team within one year. There is just no evidence otherwise.
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