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What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
danr
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Post by danr on Jun 19, 2015 12:30:55 GMT -5
I haven't seen the sense of trading for De Aza. He isn't a player the Sox would have in a pennant race, and since they aren't in the race, they should be playing guys who are going to be around next year, namely Castillo and JBJ.
There should be a rotating four person outfield of Hanley, Betts, Castillo and JBJ, with Holt getting an occasional start when he isn't playing one of the infield positions. Hanley would only play about seven innings when he is in the outfield, and he should be platooned with Ortiz at DH to cut down his outfield time.
They talk about the time Castillo lost but they aren't giving him much playing time. They need to find out if he really is who they thought he was, and now is a good time to do that.
I understand not putting too much pressure on JBJ and I think this would be a good way to lessen it but still give him the big league reps he needs.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 19, 2015 12:34:48 GMT -5
I don't understand why Farrell always benches Castillo on days after he had a good game. He doesn't understand the concept of building on momentum or confidence. There's no point in playing De Aza over Castillo.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 19, 2015 13:11:42 GMT -5
I don't think not playing Ortiz at 1B is because he can't play it. When he does play it, he usually does it very acceptably - which actually is a bit impressive considering how seldom he plays it. However, the primary reason he hasn't played it regularly is to prevent him from being injured. As I recall, early on when he did play 1B more regularly he had injury problems and it was decided to make him a full-time DH to keep his bat in the lineup. Now, at his age, I doubt he would hold up very long as even a part-time 1B. It's too bad because with Napoli not hitting and Hanley botching LF, it would make the team better if Hanley were the DH and Ortiz was the 1B. Exactly. It makes no sense to talk of putting David Ortiz at 1b very often. About 10 games per year there is his maximum. He would probably break down if he were to play there more often and his bat is a lot more valuable, even now, than his glove, so there's no sense in risking injury to him just to have a body at 1b. I know there are a lot of people who want Ortiz gone, but I would say, he's one of the Red Sox best source of power against righties. Take him out of the lineup and that leaves Sandoval as your primary source of power against righties, which is a scary thing. Honestly, if the Sox had to choose between dumping Ortiz and Ramirez, I'd rather see the Sox get out from under Ramirez's deal. I'm sure Hanley can be a productive DH in the upcoming years, but I'd rather have Ortiz short-term and try to replace his offense a year or two down the road. We're talking DH. Anybody with a decent stick can do it, and I don't think it should necessarily have to cost $20 million plus per year. But this is all theoretical nonsense anyways. No NL team will want Hanley, and no other team in the AL will look to pay $22 million over the next 4 years for a DH. The Sox would have to subsidize that contract and they're not going to do that, so he's not going anywhere. David Ortiz's contract will vest and he'll be back next year in search of his 500th homer, a milestone that will help him in his case for Cooperstown. He's not going to be traded, nor does he want to. He is a Boston icon and at this point doesn't belong in another uniform any more than Derek Jeter would have other than the Yankees. The Sox will have both of them next year, and they need both of their bats, as Ortiz can still hit righties well, and Hanley can still generate offense. Ortiz, perhaps, and Farrell or whoever is managing them might have to convince Hanley to try 1B or else they'll have to suffer with him in LF. Meanwhile a domino effect is that with Hanley stuck in LF, the Sox might never find out what they have in JBJ or Castillo. Both of those guys need to be in the majors now playing every day. The Sox need to know what they have with these guys. I don't know that Bradley has much left to prove in AAA and they can most certainly use his defense. We need to know if he can be a viable major league hitter. Wasting ABs in the minors at this point doesn't answer that question. We need to see him every day in Boston. Rusney is 28 years old and what should have been the best years of his career probably are years where he didn't play. Now he's starting to hit the downslope of his prime and the Sox still have no clue about him, and compound the issue, by giving ABs to a reserve mediocrity such as DeAza, which is really aggravating. Castillo needs to play every day. It's almost like - why did they sign this guy if they're not going to use him? Was it in response to losing out on Jose Abreu? The outfield should primarily be Betts/Bradley/Castillo or Castillo/Bradley/Betts. With the Sox dead in the water, this would be a perfect time to find out about them, plus these guys, if nothing else, can cover ground in the outfield, which would be a big help to the pitching staff. Having Hanley in LF gums up the works. Having him DH removes the best power lefty bat that mashes RH pitching out of the lineup. I hope he can play 1b and that he doesn't pout about it because we know he doesn't want to do this, and of course, we have no idea if he can even handle 1b.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 19, 2015 14:26:32 GMT -5
I know Ortiz is fading, and it makes me sad. But still, there is no one else currently on the team I would rather see at bat in a critical situation, although Pedroia is close and Bogaerts is getting closer. No player on the Sox has the persona, the charisma, whatever that Ortiz has. The stadiums buzz every time he comes to bat. No other hitter on the Sox, or for that matter, on very many other teams, generates that kind of electricity, excitement and/or anticipation.
I hope someone steps up and takes the place that he has occupied.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 19, 2015 14:27:31 GMT -5
I know Ortiz is fading, and it makes me sad. But still, there is no one else currently on the team I would rather see at bat in a critical situation, although Pedroia is close and Bogaerts is getting closer. No player on the Sox has the persona, the charisma, whatever that Ortiz has. The stadiums buzzes every time he comes to bat. No other hitter on the Sox, or for that matter, on very many other teams, generates that kind of electricity, excitement and/or anticipation. I hope someone steps up and takes the place that he has occupied. Pedroia? He's historically been not so clutch. Granted, it's mostly just by chance IMO
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 19, 2015 14:29:53 GMT -5
I know but when he is in one of his hot streaks - which until this year we had not much in a while - he is fun to watch at bat.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 19, 2015 14:48:25 GMT -5
He doesn't understand the concept of building on momentum Well, that's good. We wouldn't want him to "understand" something that doesn't exist, right?
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 19, 2015 14:59:34 GMT -5
I know there are a lot of people who want Ortiz gone, but I would say, he's one of the Red Sox best source of power against righties. Take him out of the lineup and that leaves Sandoval as your primary source of power against righties, which is a scary thing. Honestly, if the Sox had to choose between dumping Ortiz and Ramirez, I'd rather see the Sox get out from under Ramirez's deal. I'm sure Hanley can be a productive DH in the upcoming years, but I'd rather have Ortiz short-term and try to replace his offense a year or two down the road. We're talking DH. Anybody with a decent stick can do it, and I don't think it should necessarily have to cost $20 million plus per year. I mean, you seem to be aware of Castillo's age, so you probably know that Ramirez is 31 and Ortiz is 39, right? That's a significant difference. How short term are we talking here? Next year Ortiz will be 40 - it's possible he just won't be able to catch up to 92+ mph fastballs anymore. Things can go downhill really fast at that age. Meanwhile, regardless of how bad it was, we already spent the money on Ramirez. It's a sunk cost. "Anyone with a decent stick" can DH? Would you be happy with Daniel Nava as our full-time DH? Ramirez' bat is more than just decent, it projects (Steamer/ZiPS average) at 124 wRC+ going forward. That's a top-45-in-the-majors bat. Why would you rather have a league-average bat there?
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nomar
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Posts: 11,533
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Post by nomar on Jun 19, 2015 15:29:40 GMT -5
He doesn't understand the concept of building on momentum Well, that's good. We wouldn't want him to "understand" something that doesn't exist, right? It absolutely exists when you're adjusting to the majors. I'm not saying if Johnny Gomes goes deep off of a LHP, you play him the next day. But if Castillo hits a HR and a single in the last inning of one game, benching him for De Aza the next is just stupid.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 19, 2015 15:40:37 GMT -5
Well, that's good. We wouldn't want him to "understand" something that doesn't exist, right? It absolutely exists when you're adjusting to the majors. I'm not saying if Johnny Gomes goes deep off of a LHP, you play him the next day. But if Castillo hits a HR and a single in the last inning of one game, benching him for De Aza the next is just stupid. Castillo also misplayed at least 3 balls that game and may have tweaked something trying to stop his charge on the ball that went over his head.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 19, 2015 15:58:57 GMT -5
I know there are a lot of people who want Ortiz gone, but I would say, he's one of the Red Sox best source of power against righties. Take him out of the lineup and that leaves Sandoval as your primary source of power against righties, which is a scary thing. Honestly, if the Sox had to choose between dumping Ortiz and Ramirez, I'd rather see the Sox get out from under Ramirez's deal. I'm sure Hanley can be a productive DH in the upcoming years, but I'd rather have Ortiz short-term and try to replace his offense a year or two down the road. We're talking DH. Anybody with a decent stick can do it, and I don't think it should necessarily have to cost $20 million plus per year. I mean, you seem to be aware of Castillo's age, so you probably know that Ramirez is 31 and Ortiz is 39, right? That's a significant difference. How short term are we talking here? Next year Ortiz will be 40 - it's possible he just won't be able to catch up to 92+ mph fastballs anymore. Things can go downhill really fast at that age. Meanwhile, regardless of how bad it was, we already spent the money on Ramirez. It's a sunk cost. "Anyone with a decent stick" can DH? Would you be happy with Daniel Nava as our full-time DH? Ramirez' bat is more than just decent, it projects (Steamer/ZiPS average) at 124 wRC+ going forward. That's a top-45-in-the-majors bat. Why would you rather have a league-average bat there? Yes, I know their ages so I don't need to be spoken down to. I also know Hanley Ramirez has an injury prone history and I don't know that he'll age as well as Papi did. Do you really know that? So I don't know how effective he'll be two years from now. Two years from now, there might actually be a better option that Nava or Hanley Ramirez to slot in the DH spot. If I can only keep one guy on the Sox, I keep Ortiz. I'll take him over Ramirez in the short-term, but I think this is a dumb exercise as neither is leaving anyways. At least if Ortiz gets pathetic he'll retire soon. If Hanley is an injury problem or declines more rapidly than you expect we're stuck with his contract longer. Like you said, he's a sunken cost.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 19, 2015 17:43:16 GMT -5
Well, that's good. We wouldn't want him to "understand" something that doesn't exist, right? It absolutely exists when you're adjusting to the majors. I'm not saying if Johnny Gomes goes deep off of a LHP, you play him the next day. But if Castillo hits a HR and a single in the last inning of one game, benching him for De Aza the next is just stupid. I don't disagree that Castillo needs reps now. But "momentum" is still bull****. Why would he learn more the day after getting a hit than the day after striking out twice and flying out twice?
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 19, 2015 18:17:39 GMT -5
Maybe momentum isn't the right word, but it is a fact that baseball players almost universally hit well in streaks. Few, if any, hit near their average week in and week out. So when a player does well it might mean the beginning of good streak.
For example, if Pedroia gets three hits in a game the odds are good that he will go several games getting more than one hit a game. Look at what Napoli did that one week, which moved his BA by more than 50 points if I recall correctly.
Few baseball players perform well if they don't play regularly. Holt is a very notable exception.
It isn't likely that Castillo is going to show his potential unless he gets to play regularly. The only reason I can think of for him not being in the lineup tonight is that he must be injured.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 19, 2015 18:46:37 GMT -5
It absolutely exists when you're adjusting to the majors. I'm not saying if Johnny Gomes goes deep off of a LHP, you play him the next day. But if Castillo hits a HR and a single in the last inning of one game, benching him for De Aza the next is just stupid. I don't disagree that Castillo needs reps now. But "momentum" is still bull****. Why would he learn more the day after getting a hit than the day after striking out twice and flying out twice? I think it's more about comfortability and confidence than learning when I say "momentum". Those two aren't everything obviously, but the kid needs reps, especially if his replacement is De Aza.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 19, 2015 19:07:13 GMT -5
Maybe momentum isn't the right word, but it is a fact that baseball players almost universally hit well in streaks. Few, if any, hit near their average week in and week out. So when a player does well it might mean the beginning of good streak. You say this as if it were some special property of baseball. It's not - it's inherent to any Bernoulli experiment. If you toss a coin 10 times you are exactly as likely to get HHHHHTTTTT as you are to get HTHTHTHTHT. Or, for that matter, HHHHHHHHHH. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is utter bull**** that has been refuted many times over.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 19, 2015 19:11:47 GMT -5
any splits on batter OPS:
following a game in which player was in the starting lineup vs. following a day in which a player did not play
... how bout when a team has an off day ... is there a drop in OPS in the next game? or an uptick because they are rested?
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Post by bookiemetts on Jun 19, 2015 21:07:49 GMT -5
You say this as if it were some special property of baseball. It's not - it's inherent to any Bernoulli experiment. If you toss a coin 10 times you are exactly as likely to get HHHHHTTTTT as you are to get HTHTHTHTHT. Or, for that matter, HHHHHHHHHH. Except in this example, the coin has no knowledge of what happened in previous tosses, like a batter would. We don't really know what's going on in a player's head during at-bats or how their body is feeling. Consecutive at-bats are not entirely independent events, and do not occur in the same, controlled environment over and over. I won't pretend to know anything about whether the streak hitting is true, but just pointing a few things out.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jun 20, 2015 2:26:29 GMT -5
Maybe momentum isn't the right word, but it is a fact that baseball players almost universally hit well in streaks. Few, if any, hit near their average week in and week out. So when a player does well it might mean the beginning of good streak. You say this as if it were some special property of baseball. It's not - it's inherent to any Bernoulli experiment. If you toss a coin 10 times you are exactly as likely to get HHHHHTTTTT as you are to get HTHTHTHTHT. Or, for that matter, HHHHHHHHHH. Wrong, wrong, wrong. This is utter bull**** that has been refuted many times over. I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Sure there is a lot of random variation, but I believe batters' perceptual motor systems are not coins. Hitters can be streaky or consistent. You can look at in season variation on the individual level and see if any career trends pop up. That can be quantified, even if there is still a lot of noise. I agree that Pedroia getting a hit (or three) in a one game sample is not predictive. For instance, maybe he faced Yohan Pino that game, or had three squibbers. I just think Dan was maybe trying to get at riding a hot streak, which seems reasonable enough.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 20, 2015 5:49:15 GMT -5
I took it that Dan meant something more like the following: not playing every day ... too many days off will throw a guy off his rhythm. Could be because he is not in a comfort zone.
which is why pinch-hitters underperform what they do when they are starting players. Theoretically.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 20, 2015 6:57:08 GMT -5
I took it that Dan meant something more like the following: not playing every day ... too many days off will throw a guy off his rhythm. Could be because he is not in a comfort zone.
which is why pinch-hitters underperform what they do when they are starting players. Theoretically. Rafael Devers hit a pinch hit HR to tie the game a couple days ago. He's always in his rhythm.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 20, 2015 7:33:39 GMT -5
Except in this example, the coin has no knowledge of what happened in previous tosses, like a batter would. We don't really know what's going on in a player's head during at-bats or how their body is feeling. Consecutive at-bats are not entirely independent events, and do not occur in the same, controlled environment over and over. I won't pretend to know anything about whether the streak hitting is true, but just pointing a few things out. The thing is, just because you think "hey I got a couple of hits last game, I'm sure I'll get a hit here today" ... doesn't actually help you get a hit. If you believe otherwise, bring the evidence.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jun 20, 2015 7:37:19 GMT -5
Except in this example, the coin has no knowledge of what happened in previous tosses, like a batter would. We don't really know what's going on in a player's head during at-bats or how their body is feeling. Consecutive at-bats are not entirely independent events, and do not occur in the same, controlled environment over and over. I won't pretend to know anything about whether the streak hitting is true, but just pointing a few things out. The thing is, just because you think "hey I got a couple of hits last game, I'm sure I'll get a hit here today" ... doesn't actually help you get a hit. If you believe otherwise, bring the evidence. No, but over the course of a season, a players physical condition is constantly variable. He could go on a run where he's feeling physically healthier and that is a very real thing. The issue is I have no confidence in a manager to be able to discern when a player is actually hot and when there is just random variation.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 20, 2015 7:39:58 GMT -5
I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Sure there is a lot of random variation, but I believe batters' perceptual motor systems are not coins. Hitters can be streaky or consistent. You can look at in season variation on the individual level and see if any career trends pop up. That can be quantified, even if there is still a lot of noise. It has been shown that, for the general population of MLB hitters, streaks are not predictive (See Chapter 2 of The Book). It's possible that there are individual hitters (Napoli?) for whom it is different - if you want to present some research on that I would love to read it. The point is that streaks are a natural occurrence in Bernoulli sequences even without any fluctuation in true talent level. If you think they are caused by something other than random variation, you are likely deluding yourself.
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Post by bookiemetts on Jun 20, 2015 8:30:43 GMT -5
Except in this example, the coin has no knowledge of what happened in previous tosses, like a batter would. We don't really know what's going on in a player's head during at-bats or how their body is feeling. Consecutive at-bats are not entirely independent events, and do not occur in the same, controlled environment over and over. I won't pretend to know anything about whether the streak hitting is true, but just pointing a few things out. The thing is, just because you think "hey I got a couple of hits last game, I'm sure I'll get a hit here today" ... doesn't actually help you get a hit. If you believe otherwise, bring the evidence. I didn't just mean that it's, "I'm sure I'll get a hit today", I was thinking more like, "It's been working when I stand here in the batter's box against these types of pitchers" type of thinking. It isn't just a mental thing, players are learning the pitchers and may be adjusting their approach or swing. Edit: And I'm not saying that streaks can't be caused by random variation, but it is possible that there's a little something else going on.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 20, 2015 17:52:30 GMT -5
I wrote that most hitters are streaky and tend to bunch their hits together. I said that if Pedroia got three hits in a game there was a good probability he would follow with a streak of games in which he got more than one hit a game. That statement was challenged and said to be untrue.
Well folks, it is true, at least this year, but not every time for Pedroia, just most of the time. It also is true for some other hitters, but not for all of them.
What is true for most of the Red Sox hitters is that they bunch their hits in mini streaks and also go for periods when they hit very little. May was a disaster in part because most of the Sox hitters had bad streaks during the month.
I've done a spread sheet of the hitting of ever Sox hitter by game so far this season and the facts generally support my statement. The details:
Pedroia had three hits on opening day but he did not immediately go into a hitting streak. He went hitless for two games and then had a mini streak of nine hits in the next six games, including another three-hit game. He had another three hit game on April 26 that began an eight game hitting streak in which he collected 12 hits. His next three hit game was May 22 and that ignited a nine game streak in which he had 15 hits. On June 3 he had four hits that began a streak of 12 games in which he got 21 hits before his knee injury.
Pedroia is the poster boy of streak hitting, usually begun with a three or four hit game.
However, Betts also appears to be a similar type of streak hitter. His first three hit game was April 27. That set off a 13-game hitting streak in which he had 19 hits of the total of 37 he had between the beginning of the streak and the end of May. He got 15 more hits in an 11-game period at the end of the month, including a three hit game.
On June 16 he had another three hit game, followed by one hit on the 17th, two on the 18th and four last night.
Bogaerts also has been a streak hitter this season. He had three hits on April 9, four the next game and five in the next three games, for a total of 12 hits in five games. He only had eight other hits in the month of April.
However, it doesn't always happen. He had four hits again on May 24 but went four games without a hit afterwards - his longest hitless streak of the season. He ended that hitless streak with three hits on May 31, followed by two hits the next game, and three the game after that. Then after one game without a hit he had a eight-game hitting streak started by another three hit game. So he had three three-hit games in the space of five games.
Ramirez, with 22 multi-hit games and Sandoval, with 21, are second and third to Pedroia's 24 and while Sandoval has a current eight game hitting streak, neither seems to be typical of streak hitters. In fact, Sandoval has had two four hit games, without much following them.
Because both Ortiz and Napoli have not been hitting much for most of the season, they really can't be assessed very well. However, there was an eight game period in May when Napoli got 12 of the total of 21 hits he had in the entire month.
Ortiz has inconsistent results. He got three hits on April 18 in the midst of an 11 game streak in which he got only a total of seven hits. He got three hits again on May 11 and then went three games without a hit. However, going into tonight's game he has an eight-game hitting streak.
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