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What Can Be Done to Fix the Sox?
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Post by soxfan4life on Jun 24, 2015 14:43:44 GMT -5
I don't think trading any of our farm players would be the answer.Once they find out wheat they can do.Then they can figure out what to do.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Jun 24, 2015 15:05:02 GMT -5
Of the players in the system now - so not counting this year's 1st pick - Devers seems to be the one most likely to become a superstar. Since there are so few superstars these days, I think he is totally untouchable.
Klaw's latest scouting report on Devers (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post/_/id/4037/scouting-red-soxs-moncada-other-class-a-prospects) is very positive. Not very positive on Moncada. I think he also is the first to say that Devers has superior defensive skills and can stick at 3B. Barring injuries he is going to be the Sox 3B in three years or maybe a little sooner.
Dubon and Guerra are the Greenville players who could be traded and would have value, especially Guerra.
I think the Sox may try to solve the 1B problem this year, but I don't have any idea what they might, or even, could do. There aren't that many really good 1Bs and very few, if any, who could be acquired. Sam Travis might have a chance in two years, but seems unlikely to be ready next year. He's got to prove himself in AA and AAA and those are big jumps. Witte has cooled off, but should be given a shot at AAA. Travis Shaw can handle the job defensively but hasn't had a chance yet to show if he can hit. If they can't make a good trade, playing him at 1B frequently the rest the season might be the best option.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 25, 2015 9:14:24 GMT -5
Some people are against this but if Hanley is not gonna improve in left field ,how can you not entertain him trying first. Ortiz is gonna get a mulligan for next year. So you have first open and only one can DH. I don't want to sacrifice defense it killed this team. Every time he hits the wall he can't finish the game.
I would like to see them try to figure some stuff out in the second half of the year. Give Shaw some at bats . Maybe Travis down the road . He has done a lot in a small time frame.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 25, 2015 9:26:13 GMT -5
Some people are against this but if Hanley is not gonna improve in left field ,how can you not entertain him trying first. Ortiz is gonna get a mulligan for next year. So you have first open and only one can DH. I don't want to sacrifice defense it killed this team. Every time he hits the wall he can't finish the game. I would like to see them try to figure some stuff out in the second half of the year. Give Shaw some at bats . Maybe Travis down the road . He has done a lot in a small time frame. Defense in LF and 3b have hurt us. We've been o everywhere else. If we keep JBJ in RF, should be a nice improvement there. We like plus defense at that position. Really important at Fenway. Drew and Victorino were basically CF's who played RF for us. I can live with Hanley in LF for one more year against righties. He's gonna DH against lefties. Use a defensive replacement late in games. Your 1b is much more involved in team defense than your LF. Keep Hanley away from the ball as much as possible. The 2015 1b isn't in our organization right now.
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Post by soxfan4life on Jun 25, 2015 10:59:56 GMT -5
I think the Sox need to be more athletic.Since they are not hitting homers guys like Napoli,Ramirez and Sandoval and up until recently,Ortiz.Even when these guys get on,you need at least two more hits to score these guys not to mention how they clog the bases preventing the faster guys from taking extra bases.I also think its time to see what their farm players can do both postion players and pitchers.Bringing up Brian Johnson to take Kelly's next turn in the rotation would be a great start.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jun 25, 2015 12:11:06 GMT -5
Some people are against this but if Hanley is not gonna improve in left field ,how can you not entertain him trying first. Ortiz is gonna get a mulligan for next year. So you have first open and only one can DH. I don't want to sacrifice defense it killed this team. Every time he hits the wall he can't finish the game. I would like to see them try to figure some stuff out in the second half of the year. Give Shaw some at bats . Maybe Travis down the road . He has done a lot in a small time frame. Hanley has been improving at LF, and it's pretty obvious that he won't get any meaningful time at first base midseason. If Hanley at 1B is an option it's not going to happen till the offseason. Nothing supporting this thought, but I think Hanley would have a tough time trying to pick bad throws while keeping his foot on the bag. Napoli has done a great job as a target at first base.
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Post by jdb on Jun 25, 2015 12:47:37 GMT -5
If he's a DH long term I don't see why we would move him to 1B next year just to have the growing pains he's having now in LF. At least in LF he doesn't others like his D at first would on the rest of the IF.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 25, 2015 23:48:33 GMT -5
The Pirates want another pitcher. Buchholz for Tyler Glasnow and an intriguing second low-A arm. If the Sox are going to trade Buch, with his cushy contracts and the way he's pitched this year, they'd better get a top-30 prospect back. Maybe they could add another piece and squeeze Taillon out since he's post-injury. Or heck, try for Austin Meadows...it would quiet down some of the "we shoulda gotten him instead of Trey Ball" howling.
As much as Breslow's driven us all nuts, he's still only giving up just under a hit per inning and might have some value to a contender for a low-A lottery ticket. Same for Layne, although I like his variable angles and his potential future with the Sox.
As bad as Napoli's been, I still think someone out there will want to take a flier on him and might give up a high-A B-grade prospect for him. Maybe not top-100, but maybe 150-range or so. Especially if the Sox contribute some salary relief.
They've gotta clear out the OF situation; I'd really like to see Hanley get some reps at DH against LHPs and at 1b against righties. JBJ really deserves a legit second shot, after being top-3 in the IL in OBP/OPS. If he can start using the Wall, I can see him keeping up his doubles pace in the majors. Plus, stupid-good D in RF. He would allow Mookie to shade towards LF and cover some for Hanley if he's still over there.
Gotta wonder if an NL team might take a shot on Miley, too. He's had a few stinkers but has been otherwise OK and would be a good fit for a big-park team like the Mets or Giants (or Dodgers/Padres). I wonder if the Pads could be convinced to part with Kimbrel for a reasonable package. Johnson deserves his shot at the rotation and Wright hasn't done anything to show that he isn't MLB-caliber.
This team obviously isn't going anywhere, so let the young guys play and develop, and stock the farm up as best as possible, then hope the $ savings from trades can get them Cueto in the off-season. E-Rod looks like the real deal as a potential 1a/2, at least with some seasoning. If Johnson can be a passable 4, and Porcello a 3, they can fill the 5 with a body from Kelly/Owens/Wright and have a pretty good rotation. Swihart's starting to hit, as are Mookie and Bogey, and if JBJ can hit .250 with a few doubles they'll have good D and can reasonably expect some improved play from those young guys next year.
By late 2016, Margot and Travis may be knocking on the door. Kopech should be in AA. If/when Benintendi signs, he'll likely be in high A. I wouldn't rule out Espinoza looking at a promotion from low to high A at that point either. And Devers may be edging towards AAA. They don't have a big hitter other than Devers in the pipeline for the near future though, so they need to see what they've got in the current crop and go speed/D/pitching if the offense lacks a truly dangerous hitter. Though, fwiw, I think Bogaerts and Betts could both become #3 types by next year or 2017 at the outside.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 26, 2015 5:07:12 GMT -5
it would quiet down some of the "we shoulda gotten him instead of Trey Ball" howling. After all, Ben's job is to keep SoxProspects forum users happy, right? Seriously, I would have no idea who the **** Austin Meadows is if you guys didn't keep on mentioning him.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Jun 26, 2015 6:17:07 GMT -5
it would quiet down some of the "we shoulda gotten him instead of Trey Ball" howling. After all, Ben's job is to keep SoxProspects forum users happy, right? Seriously, I would have no idea who the **** Austin Meadows is if you guys didn't keep on mentioning him. Um, I think you should read what he wrote again. It was pretty obviously tongue in cheek.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 26, 2015 6:30:17 GMT -5
As much as Breslow's driven us all nuts, he's still only giving up just under a hit per inning and might have some value to a contender for a low-A lottery ticket. Only if a GM looks at ERA and WHIP, not FIP, xFIP and SIERA. Alternatively, I'd bet he'd clear waivers if he were outrighted.
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Post by soxfan4life on Jun 26, 2015 14:25:42 GMT -5
I think that once the Sox get through the rays and Blue Jays series,I think the Sox brass will have a better idea if they will be sellers or buyers at the trade deadline.If things don't go well,they will still have a chance mathematically but I think it would be safe to start planning for next year though I think that time is already here.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 26, 2015 15:23:44 GMT -5
it would quiet down some of the "we shoulda gotten him instead of Trey Ball" howling. After all, Ben's job is to keep SoxProspects forum users happy, right? Seriously, I would have no idea who the **** Austin Meadows is if you guys didn't keep on mentioning him. Wow, you whiffed on my sarcasm like Wily Mo on a back-door slider.
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Post by telson13 on Jun 26, 2015 15:27:32 GMT -5
As much as Breslow's driven us all nuts, he's still only giving up just under a hit per inning and might have some value to a contender for a low-A lottery ticket. Only if a GM looks at ERA and WHIP, not FIP, xFIP and SIERA. Alternatively, I'd bet he'd clear waivers if he were outrighted. Dave Stewart is proof that A) there are GMs out there who aren't wedded to the more complex analytics, and B) those guys still have a reasonably strong presence in MLB. So yeah, while I agree with you, they're better off trying to get *something* in return, no?
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 27, 2015 7:23:44 GMT -5
Only if a GM looks at ERA and WHIP, not FIP, xFIP and SIERA. Alternatively, I'd bet he'd clear waivers if he were outrighted. Dave Stewart is proof that A) there are GMs out there who aren't wedded to the more complex analytics, and B) those guys still have a reasonably strong presence in MLB. So yeah, while I agree with you, they're better off trying to get *something* in return, no? I guess, but I wouldn't count on it. Even Dave Stewart could find a better pitcher for free.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 28, 2015 0:57:52 GMT -5
Some people are against this but if Hanley is not gonna improve in left field ,how can you not entertain him trying first. Ortiz is gonna get a mulligan for next year. So you have first open and only one can DH. I don't want to sacrifice defense it killed this team. Every time he hits the wall he can't finish the game. I would like to see them try to figure some stuff out in the second half of the year. Give Shaw some at bats . Maybe Travis down the road . He has done a lot in a small time frame. Hanley has been improving at LF, and it's pretty obvious that he won't get any meaningful time at first base midseason. If Hanley at 1B is an option it's not going to happen till the offseason. Nothing supporting this thought, but I think Hanley would have a tough time trying to pick bad throws while keeping his foot on the bag. Napoli has done a great job as a target at first base. How about moving Pedroia to first base next year. It theoretically should cut down on potential injuries and allows us to Move mookie to second and have Bradley in cf, Castillo in right and rameriez in left.
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Jun 28, 2015 1:24:34 GMT -5
Hanley has been improving at LF, and it's pretty obvious that he won't get any meaningful time at first base midseason. If Hanley at 1B is an option it's not going to happen till the offseason. Nothing supporting this thought, but I think Hanley would have a tough time trying to pick bad throws while keeping his foot on the bag. Napoli has done a great job as a target at first base. How about moving Pedroia to first base next year. It theoretically should cut down on potential injuries and allows us to Move mookie to second and have Bradley in cf, Castillo in right and rameriez in left. I don't see this ever happening if anything he moves to DH way way down the line. Mookie will always be apart of the outfield unfortunately. By the time anything remotely possible Moncada would be ready and if by that time I don't see the Red Sox moving Mookie back to 2nd. Now if Moncada is destined to 1st, 3rd, or LF. Maybe. But moving Pedroia to first decreases his value and his too short to play there regularly.
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Post by jmei on Jun 28, 2015 8:38:27 GMT -5
I moved some Buchholz trade discussion to that thread in the trade proposal subforum. Gentle reminder that specific trade discussion should go in that forum. Thanks.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2015 10:10:44 GMT -5
Hanley has been improving at LF, and it's pretty obvious that he won't get any meaningful time at first base midseason. If Hanley at 1B is an option it's not going to happen till the offseason. Nothing supporting this thought, but I think Hanley would have a tough time trying to pick bad throws while keeping his foot on the bag. Napoli has done a great job as a target at first base. How about moving Pedroia to first base next year. It theoretically should cut down on potential injuries and allows us to Move mookie to second and have Bradley in cf, Castillo in right and rameriez in left. Maybe you should start a thread "What Can Be Done To Further Ruin the Sox?"
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Post by congusgambler33 on Jun 28, 2015 12:01:16 GMT -5
How to fix the Red Sox? How about getting anyone from the cardinals organization to come here and tell us how its done.....Even the washroom attemdant.
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Post by chud on Jun 28, 2015 12:47:33 GMT -5
How to fix the Red Sox? How about getting anyone from the cardinals organization to come here and tell us how its done.....Even the washroom attemdant. Or especially their computer forensics people...I hear they're really talented...too soon?
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Post by soxcentral on Jun 28, 2015 12:50:12 GMT -5
How to fix the Red Sox? How about getting anyone from the cardinals organization to come here and tell us how its done.....Even the washroom attemdant. I get the angst, its been another tough year. But we have won more WS in the last 10 years than 28 of the 29 other organizations, including the Cardinals. Our own washroom attendant would be pretty popular in most other organizations.
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Post by arzjake on Jun 28, 2015 13:43:37 GMT -5
How to fix the Red Sox? How about getting anyone from the cardinals organization to come here and tell us how its done.....Even the washroom attemdant. I get the angst, its been another tough year. But we have won more WS in the last 10 years than 28 of the 29 other organizations, including the Cardinals. Our own washroom attendant would be pretty popular in most other organizations. You make a Valid point BUT. Last place in 12, again in 14 and 15 looking like another last place finish is just not acceptable in Boston. Cards, Giants always stay respectable and contend. I believe much has to do with Farrell and player development with his Staff. Matheny takes over for Larussa Cards contend, Bochy has won 3 in last 6 years, Madden has Chicago turned around. Hurdle in Pitt and a few other Managers who contend seem to work well with young Players and role players based on there Team's record and roster last few years. Maybe its a coincidence? I don't know. Go back and look at what Francona did here especially in 07, 08 with combination of youth and veterans. I believe in todays game you need a Manager with a track record despite what the record in the standings look like. Farrell never had it, maybe were seeing why in front of our eyes. Bad defense, lack of focus, lack of something makes me think Farrell goes.. Call Gardenhire for 16.
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Post by chud on Jun 28, 2015 15:36:22 GMT -5
[/quote]You make a Valid point BUT. Last place in 12, again in 14 and 15 looking like another last place finish is just not acceptable in Boston.[/quote]
And herein lies a big part of the problem with the Red Sox...How do we separate our obvious goal to win every year (that's why we follow year in and year out right?!), with the realistic view that it's an impossible goal to achieve every year considering the cyclical nature of winning, and factoring in the passionate fan base and need for NESN ratings (i.e. The Monster), the cost of chasing the ring every year that can dig a deeper hole than admitting some years (maybe several in a row) just need to be reloading/developmental years...I think Theo started a good process of focusing the fan base on the farm system through the media (another way of saying, "look what's just over the horizon")
So, in 2015, the Sox have some young talent and some established talent, but the roster is a bit of a mess w/ too many OF, too many outs in the lineup (some of which was due to youth and some due to underachieving vets...), and too many inconsistent pitching performances. Every time they win a series the momentum ends the next series...We've learned that the AL East actually isn't all that bad comparatively, and the Sox are staring up at every team in the AL...While nothing is impossible, seems like this isn't going to be the year...the question is, isn't that ok after 3 WS in the past 10 years or so? I'd argue "yes", but still want to discuss the issues/problems i see as that's what i like to do...and i'm sure is why we're all here...but there's no such thing as "losing" not being acceptable in any giving market, it's an inevitability...sooner or later it has to happen albeit it is never a goal to achieve...maybe the more money you have, you can stave it off longer, but unless you have an unlimited budget, the cost of continuing to chase the ring will also catch up with you at some point and then ultimately push your time in between winning cycles off that much further...
So need to prepare to sell anything good we have (which won't be here when we're ready to compete again for a WS) which can bring back future/young talent that will be around when we can realistically compete for a championship again (which isn't that far away with young talent we supposedly have)...but need to build like the cubs and hold off on the expensive FA signings until we ready to pull the trigger again on making a WS run...
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Post by raftsox on Jun 28, 2015 17:01:29 GMT -5
Maybe momentum isn't the right word, but it is a fact that baseball players almost universally hit well in streaks. Few, if any, hit near their average week in and week out. So when a player does well it might mean the beginning of good streak. For example, if Pedroia gets three hits in a game the odds are good that he will go several games getting more than one hit a game. Look at what Napoli did that one week, which moved his BA by more than 50 points if I recall correctly. Few baseball players perform well if they don't play regularly. Holt is a very notable exception. It isn't likely that Castillo is going to show his potential unless he gets to play regularly. The only reason I can think of for him not being in the lineup tonight is that he must be injured. There's a reason pinch hitting stats are worse than regular-at-bat stats. That being said I couldn't tell you if the front office/manager knows something we don't. Or if they're evaluating BOTH players for the future.
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