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6/23-6/25 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 25, 2015 10:22:51 GMT -5
Once again. People are forgetting thus could be a spot start. Unless you want Johnson on three days
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 25, 2015 10:23:33 GMT -5
Looking forward to the day I never have to watch De Aza as a regular again.
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Jun 25, 2015 10:29:34 GMT -5
40 man just got tighter, so another move will need to come if they want to bring up Johnson, and another when Hanigan comes back. Still have plenty of relievers they can DFA, which seems the likely route with Aro being added.
OT, I hadn't realized that Margot needs to be added to the 40 man this winter (!). The rules really make it hard on the Rule 4 signees
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Post by thegoo13 on Jun 25, 2015 10:31:18 GMT -5
Once again. People are forgetting thus could be a spot start. Unless you want Johnson on three days Fine but the counter argument would have been to skip Johnson last night and for him to pitch on Sunday. As Chris or someone else pointed out this shows they wanted Masterson and not Johnson starting on Sunday. Personally I am in agreement with others here, seems to me we already know what isn't working here.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on Jun 25, 2015 10:32:37 GMT -5
I thought this FO understands what sunk cost means!! Has nothing to do with sunk costs. Has to do with them incorrectly thinking this is the better option over Johnson. Masterson is a sunk cost, guy needs to get DFA'd long time ago not given a major leagues start!
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danr
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Post by danr on Jun 25, 2015 10:36:00 GMT -5
When they brought Masterson up I thought it was pretty obvious that he would get a start or two. The reason why I think it is the right thing to do has not been mentioned by anyone. I don't know for a fact if the following is why this is happening, but it is why I would do it. If they did not give Masterson another chance or two it potentially would damage their ability to sign veterans in similar situations in the future. They knew when they signed Masterson that he was coming off an injury and that it might take some time for him to recover - if he was going to recover. A veteran player in this situation is going to expect some patience and a fair opportunity to recover. The Sox had to give him that. Part of it, of course, is they gave him a lot of money, but that is only part of it. He had to know that he wouldn't be dumped as soon as he pitched poorly.
They have followed the script. When he didn't do well - and his velocity did not come back - he was DL'd to rehab. They then gave him some starts in the minors and he did pitch fairly well in his last start. Now if he doesn't pitch well they can DFA him and no one can say they didn't give him a fair chance.
How a team treats its players is important to a team's chances of signing veterans below the star, big-money level, the kind of players who have always been important to the success of Sox teams. The Sox are doing the right thing with Masterson for the overall good of the franchise.
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Post by notguilty on Jun 25, 2015 10:40:17 GMT -5
Man, the two guys acquired for Lackey are ending up in AAA. Unbelievable how terrible that trade is turning out to be. I liked it at the time, so I can't really complain..
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Post by Nick Rabasco2 on Jun 25, 2015 10:40:33 GMT -5
Pedroia hits the DL on the exact same day he broke his foot in San Fran in 2010. June 25 hasn't been kind to him
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 25, 2015 10:42:38 GMT -5
Red Sox Option Joe Kelly, Designated for Asmt: Erik Kratz
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Post by Guidas on Jun 25, 2015 10:43:00 GMT -5
Masterson should be in the pen. Wright should get the spot start (and I say this hating knuckleballers in general). This front office continues to mystify. They haven't had my full confidence since Theo left and completely lost it with the Lester and Lackey trades last year. I love people who think they're the smartest guys in the room, no matter who else is in the room because they always reveal they're not pretty quickly. That's this Front Office, despite 2013, which is an anomalous outlier in the Cherrington Administration. It's not the Dave Stewart Administration, that's for sure, but it's not very good, either.
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Post by bigpupp on Jun 25, 2015 10:43:41 GMT -5
My guess is that Masterson gets only one start before he is sent to the bullpen and Johnson makes the start after that.
Oh, and any decision that involves Betts not being in CF is the absolute wrong decision.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 25, 2015 10:44:14 GMT -5
Man, the two guys acquired for Lackey are ending up in AAA. Unbelievable how terrible that trade is turning out to be. I liked it at the time, so I can't really complain.. I'll admit that I liked it too. Mainly, because of Craig. I thought his foot injury caused the drop-off last year. If you don't have your base, you can't hit. A lot more into it than that though it appears. Honestly, I didn't know much about Kelly. I don't think he has the control to be a closer. But, a good 1-2 inning option out of the pen ain't a bad thing. Throw gas to get ahead. Then, mix in a slider out of the zone. Don't save anything. Let it go. Maybe, he can find a niche there. Like countless other failed starters have. Just not good enough and secondary pitches to start now.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 25, 2015 10:45:46 GMT -5
Btw, excellent posts today. If we all agreed this place would be boring.
I actually believe this team can't win without Pedroia as a regular in the line-up. So, of course, watch them go on a 15-game winning streak now...
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 25, 2015 10:51:07 GMT -5
Hopefully Johnson slides into Masterson's spot sooner than later. He's done as a starter.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 25, 2015 10:52:08 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 25, 2015 10:53:25 GMT -5
I'm beyond ecstatic that they're giving Justin Masterson another chance to secure the Red Sox a top 5 draft pick.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 25, 2015 10:55:14 GMT -5
Hopefully Johnson slides into Masterson's spot sooner than later. He's done as a starter. Yeah, I think they're just giving a nice guy another crack. Kind of silly. But, it is what it is. I mentioned it 2 days ago.If you follow baseball, nearly every team will give the vet making a lot of money another chance. Nothing earth-shattering here. Also, not the only reason we suck. Porcello and Kelly are having disappointing seasons. And, for anyone wishing to respond with SIERA or XFIP, save the time and don't. No production in RF and 1b killed us. Blame Napoli and BC for signing Castillo.
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Post by jmei on Jun 25, 2015 10:56:44 GMT -5
Once again. People are forgetting thus could be a spot start. Unless you want Johnson on three days They could always keep Kelly in the rotation for one more start. I am not pleased that they're optioning Kelly, and especially displeased because they're doing to so give Justin Masterson at least one start in his place.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 25, 2015 10:57:52 GMT -5
15G winstreak. We can dream. Lots of movement now likely means more movement to come. Fixing the Kelly, Masterson, Bullpen, JBJ issues just the beginning I think.
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Post by notguilty on Jun 25, 2015 10:59:23 GMT -5
Masterson should be in the pen. Wright should get the spot start (and I say this hating knuckleballers in general). This front office continues to mystify. They haven't had my full confidence since Theo left and completely lost it with the Lester and Lackey trades last year. I love people who think they're the smartest guys in the room, no matter who else is in the room because they always reveal they're not pretty quickly. That's this Front Office, despite 2013, which is an anomalous outlier in the Cherrington Administration. It's not the Dave Stewart Administration, that's for sure, but it's not very good, either. Not to derail the thread, but I totally empathize with this. I think this FO lost a people this year. It's not just coming up last - in 2012 and I'd say, even 2014, you still had some faith that they knew what they were doing despite the hiccups. Even last year, when they brought AJP, you think, "ok, I don't like it, but this is the Sox FO, they know what they're doing". I used to love reading those "Best FOs/GMs in Baseball" articles, because I knew the Sox would be in there. I didn't have a problem not signing Lester to that contract; the logic of the Lackey trade made sense to me. This year is totally different. I don't understand the moves; or rather, I understand the supposed logic behind them (other than Breslow, ughh..), but for the most part, I find that logic faulty, behind trends, or not in the interest of winning games. I think they're behind the trends. I mean, it's obviously not all bad, but I just don't trust what they're doing any more; and with every other move, they kind of remind me why. This is like finding out that your mail order bride who looked so good on the pictures is actually not that pretty. It's a bit deflating. So you hold back to the memory you had of her being supposedly pretty. Since Cherington looks like a good, "smart" guy, I'll blame Allard Baird, lol. I think he has a lot to do with this.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Jun 25, 2015 11:00:48 GMT -5
Leaving aside Johnson, Joe Kelly is a better pitcher than Justin Masterson. Masterson's cooked, and his velo did not come back. No real excuse for this, imo.
This is a bad day. I held out hope, but a team without Pedroia in the lineup and with Masterson in the rotation is not one built for a run.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jun 25, 2015 11:02:33 GMT -5
That's just a terrible front office move. I typically have faith in the FO, but the past two years have given me pause. Trading RDLR, jerking around JBJ and Rusneys development, the Lackey trade, Drew stunting Xander's development, Breslow/Ross being on the team, now Masterson a terrible signing and STILL somehow given a shot. These types of moves have been occurring more often the past two years, even though there have been good things too. Even if it's a spot start, its one too many chances for Masterson. He could barely get AA hitters out. Give it to Wright or Kelly. Everyone keeps whining about the Miley deal. He's been a half run better while pitching in the AL. RDL is giving up homers at an alarming rate despite showing flashes of brilliance. They traded a high up-side kid who has a relatively low floor for a guy they're projecting to get to around 200 IP while having about a 4 ERA. He may not get to 200 IP, but he'll probably still finish with 31 GS and about 180 to go along with a low 4 ERA. That's quality back of the rotation stuff. I really don't have a problem with this move. It wasn't that long ago people were calling RDL a bullpen arm.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 25, 2015 11:21:15 GMT -5
Leaving aside Johnson, Joe Kelly is a better pitcher than Justin Masterson. Masterson's cooked, and his velo did not come back. No real excuse for this, imo. Agreed. And they must have been planning this, because they definitely knew this was happening last night, when they allowed Johnson to take his start in Pawtucket. Id be surprised if Masterson could handle even an awful team, and our schedule is tough in the coming weeks as it is.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Jun 25, 2015 11:28:01 GMT -5
Is there a Cy Young award in AAA? Maybe Joe Kelly will fulfill his prediction after all.
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Post by raftsox on Jun 25, 2015 11:36:55 GMT -5
This is the second consecutive year that it hasn't been though. It's also the second year in a row he's pitched in front of a bad defense. Also, sometimes a coin comes up tails twice in a row. It may or may not be the start of a trend, but I am worried. The defensive argument doesn't hold water, though. This year the team UZR is middle of the pack and slightly below average. Last year they were the third best in the league. In 2013 they were above average, but still in the middle of the pack. 2012 top 3. 2011 top 3. 2010 bottom third. 2009 slightly above average. 2008 top 3. I'm not really sure what to make of his future. His success is clearly tied to health and limiting home runs, but he also appears to be getting worse with runners on base. The past 2 seasons are the only two that show significant increases in wOBA with runners on and with RISP; correlating nicely with his worsening LOB% and increasing ERA-FIP.
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