danr
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Post by danr on Jul 20, 2015 23:25:30 GMT -5
There are five catchers with Lowell.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 21, 2015 1:31:49 GMT -5
If anyone else is doing what I was doing and just noting in the box score that Benindenti is hitting just .256, that's .256 / .434 / .538.
Is there any reason (other than idiotic tradition) why these box scores still report batting average instead of OPS?
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jul 21, 2015 2:04:50 GMT -5
While traditional BA has vaue borh as a stat and a 100+ year tradition, why not enhace that stat and that tradition with the entire slash line? Evev ESPN, Turner, NESN, MASN and Fox are listing OBP. In this information age, the time has come for this information.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jul 21, 2015 2:06:18 GMT -5
Pardon the big thumb/ late nite typos.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 21, 2015 7:16:09 GMT -5
If anyone else is doing what I was doing and just noting in the box score that Benindenti is hitting just .256, that's .256 / .434 / .538.
Is there any reason (other than idiotic tradition) why these box scores still report batting average instead of OPS? Because baseball media doesn't want to waste their resources educating the common fan.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 21, 2015 7:26:03 GMT -5
Had a chat with folks in the know this weekend, and confirmed that just because a player is announced at a certain position when drafted, it doesn't mean the team asked for that - it might just be what they were in the database as. So from this same conversation, I was able to confirm that Tyler Spoon is converting to catcher and that Jagger Rusconi is going to play second base. I'd assume, then, that Downs is staying at first as well. This would also explain the strange roster construction when we thought all those guys were going to play outfield. And that helps explain why he's in the GCL.
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Post by shorething on Jul 21, 2015 7:37:53 GMT -5
If anyone else is doing what I was doing and just noting in the box score that Benindenti is hitting just .256, that's .256 / .434 / .538.
Is there any reason (other than idiotic tradition) why these box scores still report batting average instead of OPS? Isn't it obvious? Keith Law says OPS is a garbage stat; therefore it MUST BE.
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 21, 2015 7:48:22 GMT -5
Had a chat with folks in the know this weekend, and confirmed that just because a player is announced at a certain position when drafted, it doesn't mean the team asked for that - it might just be what they were in the database as. So from this same conversation, I was able to confirm that Tyler Spoon is converting to catcher and that Jagger Rusconi is going to play second base. I'd assume, then, that Downs is staying at first as well. This would also explain the strange roster construction when we thought all those guys were going to play outfield. And that helps explain why he's in the GCL. Right - just like Ben Moore last year.
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 21, 2015 7:54:40 GMT -5
If anyone else is doing what I was doing and just noting in the box score that Benindenti is hitting just .256, that's .256 / .434 / .538.
Is there any reason (other than idiotic tradition) why these box scores still report batting average instead of OPS? Isn't it obvious? Keith Law says OPS is a garbage stat; therefore it MUST BE. Law says that because OPS is a garbage stat because it over values SLG relative to OBP. He is correct; that is kind of SABR 101. However, the hyperbole involved in calling it a "garbage" stat makes people write silly things. It is still significantly better than AVG, much easier to understand than a properly weighted OPS (or any linear weight based stat, like RC+ or wOBA etc), and at this point ubiquitous.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 21, 2015 8:26:37 GMT -5
A question for stat heads. If the concept for batting prowess buys into the concept that BABIP is that a hit vs out is a random function of it being hit to a position where the fielder happens to be.
Why does this not apply to singles/doubles/triples? A liner pulled down the line or into a gap is just a hard single to the left fielder save for fortuitous placement. Obviously a double off the wall is different in scope, but that is to my impression, a minority of doubles triples.
So, if a double or triple vs a single is not the function of skill, why do we inflate OPS to double or triple the value of those hits?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 21, 2015 8:34:31 GMT -5
Video of Benintendi's HR last night:
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 21, 2015 8:39:25 GMT -5
A question for stat heads. If the concept for batting prowess buys into the concept that BABIP is that a hit vs out is a random function of it being hit to a position where the fielder happens to be. Why does this not apply to singles/doubles/triples? A liner pulled down the line or into a gap is just a hard single to the left fielder save for fortuitous placement. Obviously a double off the wall is different in scope, but that is to my impression, a minority of doubles triples. So, if a double or triple vs a single is not the function of skill, why do we inflate OPS to double or triple the value of those hits? Batter's have control over BABIP (i.e., there is a definite difference in skill between players in the majors leagues related to BABIP). There is also a difference in skill level for hardness of contact as well as FB/GB, all of which correlate with 2B (and HR) power. That's why you'll see people on this board discuss things like LD%, FB%, GB% for batters. (That said, the minor league LD% is very unlikely to be useful data until it is objectively coded - i.e., hitFX.)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 21, 2015 9:01:23 GMT -5
Scary happenings last night in Myrtle Beach - Teddy Stankiewicz took a line drive off the head in the first inning and left the game after being down for a few minutes.
Best wishes for a speedy recovery to Teddy. Keep an ear out for an interview with him on a coming podcast - really nice guy who was very engaging.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 21, 2015 9:34:38 GMT -5
“@salemredsox: Teddy Stankiewicz is fine after exiting the game today. The ball deflected off his right shoulder and he left for precautionary measures.”
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Post by jmei on Jul 21, 2015 9:56:43 GMT -5
A question for stat heads. If the concept for batting prowess buys into the concept that BABIP is that a hit vs out is a random function of it being hit to a position where the fielder happens to be. Why does this not apply to singles/doubles/triples? A liner pulled down the line or into a gap is just a hard single to the left fielder save for fortuitous placement. Obviously a double off the wall is different in scope, but that is to my impression, a minority of doubles triples. So, if a double or triple vs a single is not the function of skill, why do we inflate OPS to double or triple the value of those hits? It is well known in the sabermetric community that double/triples rate is one of the least stable year-to-year offensive stats out there. Eric and I had a long discussion about this with respect to Saltalamacchia's huge number of doubles in 2013 (it's in the Off-Topic Forum, I think). The fact that singles/doubles/triples have a high degree of randomness involved, especially for pitchers, is why the advanced pitching stats generally do not use them as inputs. OPS is "inflated" by doubles/triples just like it is "inflated" by a high BABIP. It's a measure of results, not a stat like FIP or xFIP or SIERA that is more of an estimator of true talent. You can build a hitting metric based on more reliable peripherals like BB%, K%, HR%, etc., and some have. Those metrics aren't as popular because, as joshv02 points out above, hitters' true talent skills can have a significant effect on their BABIP and extra-base-hit rate.
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Post by stevedillard on Jul 21, 2015 11:23:34 GMT -5
Well you can certainly see why exit velocity will become the most portant stat. Perhaps vector will be secondary as a bat plane makes a fly ball vs ground ball a skill. Hits vs outs almost becomes secondary.
All of which led me to a philosophical question, of whether we as fans would prefer a game in which outcome is governed purely by skill, rather than baseball, in which the outcome on a small sample of a game or a series is determined by fluke outcomes. Those become lore, like Dent homerring, Gibson homerring off eck (those are more aberrations than flukes), but for skill, McCovey's liner springs to mind as an unfair result. Would one want to design the game to get a purer result tied to skill, or is that the beauty of the game?
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Post by jmei on Jul 21, 2015 11:51:20 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 21, 2015 13:13:02 GMT -5
Someday we'll have a real xBABIP stat based on all of the data in HitFX. And from there we can have the hitter's equivalents of FIP and SIERA. There also needs to be adjustment for quality of opponent on an individual plate appearance level.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 21, 2015 13:29:52 GMT -5
Scary happenings last night in Myrtle Beach - Teddy Stankiewicz took a line drive off the head in the first inning and left the game after being down for a few minutes. Best wishes for a speedy recovery to Teddy. Keep an ear out for an interview with him on a coming podcast - really nice guy who was very engaging. I should note that while the game story describes him as being down for a few minutes, JJ Cooper of BA was at the game an said on twitter that he was down but sitting on the ground. Still very scary for sure, but not quite the Matt Clement/Brandon McCarthy "Oh God this looks really really bad." Again, not trying to belittle the situation at all here, and definitely best wishes to him on the recovery.
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duda
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Post by duda on Jul 21, 2015 13:34:43 GMT -5
first post in a while, daily visitor though. I have been waiting for some news on Karsten Whitson. I thought he was a good 11th round pick for the Sox, arm injuries and all. He pitched at the end of last season and to the best of my knowledge has not been seen or heard from since. Does anyone have any info on what potential injury he is likely dealing with?
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 21, 2015 14:26:03 GMT -5
He'll be in Greenville any minute now /Hatfield
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Post by shorething on Jul 22, 2015 7:55:32 GMT -5
Isn't it obvious? Keith Law says OPS is a garbage stat; therefore it MUST BE. Law says that because OPS is a garbage stat because it over values SLG relative to OBP. He is correct; that is kind of SABR 101. However, the hyperbole involved in calling it a "garbage" stat makes people write silly things. It is still significantly better than AVG, much easier to understand than a properly weighted OPS (or any linear weight based stat, like RC+ or wOBA etc), and at this point ubiquitous. I don't think it's SABR 101. I think OBP > SLG is accepted by the statistically inclined baseball community, but it's not obvious why. Anyway, of course there are dozens of way to dissect actual hitting performance to evaluate a hitter's true talent level. My point is that OPS is not a garbage stat. It's quite telling/informative. My personal preference would be to see AVG, OBP, and SLG.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 22, 2015 10:23:55 GMT -5
The whole 'debate' started because of a comment that OPS is better than batting average. There is no debate about that.
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