|
Post by grandsalami on Dec 8, 2015 21:20:49 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by burythehammer on Dec 9, 2015 7:54:26 GMT -5
I would do Erod, Devers, Swihart, Johnson for Jose F. The Marlins probably wouldn't which is ok, that's why you deal from a position of power. The Marlins don't have to trade him but they would not get a better deal than this from anybody. That's way too much, IMO. By this time next year, Devers could be a top 5 prospect and ERod and Swihart could both have 3+ WAR major league seasons under their belt, easily.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 9, 2015 8:54:06 GMT -5
I can't believe what the D-backs gave the Braves for Shelby Miller. What would that have equated to our prospects?
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,018
|
Post by nomar on Dec 9, 2015 9:29:58 GMT -5
I think that trade should just about set our rotation in stone.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywater on Dec 9, 2015 9:37:23 GMT -5
I think that trade should just about set our rotation in stone. Absolutely. The Red Sox and other teams now see how ridiculous the trade market is now. We are going to start seeing the free agent dominos fall now I presume.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Dec 9, 2015 9:38:39 GMT -5
It's almost a shame it's not time to rebuild.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywater on Dec 9, 2015 9:52:45 GMT -5
It's almost a shame it's not time to rebuild. Wade Miley and Shelby Miller have the very similar steamer projections for next year. One got traded for a young cost controlled starting centerfielder, a top 50 pitching prospect and the #1 overall pick in the 2015 MLB Draft. The other got traded for a reliever. I mean I understand the upside but deal lord.
|
|
|
Post by mannofsteele on Dec 9, 2015 9:58:47 GMT -5
It's almost a shame it's not time to rebuild. Wade Miley and Shelby Miller have the very similar steamer projections for next year. One got traded for a young cost controlled starting centerfielder, a top 50 pitching prospect and the #1 overall pick in the 2015 MLB Draft. The other got traded for a reliever. I mean I understand the upside but deal lord. Miller is 3 years younger, more life on his fastball, has a better primary secondary pitch in his curve. Shelby Miller has infinitely more upside than Miley. I don't even know where you get this comparison. I agree that Arizona paid through the roof to get him, but I'm sorry Wade Miley is a #3-4 starter at best.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Dec 9, 2015 9:59:18 GMT -5
Makes the Sox offseason look all the better!!
Only time will tell but from my view point the Sox are big winners. Very happy to see the ML lineup still intact, especially the OF. The potential to be one of the best groups in baseball is real, hopefully their patience with JBJ continues to pay off. As I had always maintained, how could he have an OPS of 850 at AAA and not at least be serviceable at the next level. Doesn't make sense.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 9, 2015 10:08:52 GMT -5
It's almost a shame it's not time to rebuild. Wade Miley and Shelby Miller have the very similar steamer projections for next year. One got traded for a young cost controlled starting centerfielder, a top 50 pitching prospect and the #1 overall pick in the 2015 MLB Draft. The other got traded for a reliever. I mean I understand the upside but deal lord.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 9, 2015 10:16:41 GMT -5
It's almost a shame it's not time to rebuild. Wade Miley and Shelby Miller have the very similar steamer projections for next year. One got traded for a young cost controlled starting centerfielder, a top 50 pitching prospect and the #1 overall pick in the 2015 MLB Draft. The other got traded for a reliever. I mean I understand the upside but deal lord. Once again, Miley got traded - along with Aro - for two players. I'm going to dig all these posts up and throw them out there once Elias comes on board. He's not dead meat, he's a swing man who's had periods when he's done very well as a starter. And, as has been pointed out, he doesn't have much mileage on his arm.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywater on Dec 9, 2015 10:21:14 GMT -5
Wade Miley and Shelby Miller have the very similar steamer projections for next year. One got traded for a young cost controlled starting centerfielder, a top 50 pitching prospect and the #1 overall pick in the 2015 MLB Draft. The other got traded for a reliever. I mean I understand the upside but deal lord. Miller is 3 years younger, more life on his fastball, has a better primary secondary pitch in his curve. Shelby Miller has infinitely more upside than Miley. I don't even know where you get this comparison. I agree that Arizona paid through the roof to get him, but I'm sorry Wade Miley is a #3-4 starter at best. Upside is somewhat limited here based on years of control. Both have 3 relatively cheap years. Both are under 30. Yeah raw stuff Miller has an edge but performance wise, it's not as big of a gap as you are suggesting. My point was that Shelby Miller is better - albeit somewhat marginally - and yet the difference in packages was astronomical.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,018
|
Post by nomar on Dec 9, 2015 10:20:47 GMT -5
Also lets not pretend that Shelby Miller doesn't have a different connotation to his name than Miley. Right or wrong, people see the difference in ERA and think Miller is a #2 pitcher. To be fair he throws harder and has more upside, but still their real value should be a lot closer than it is. That's baseball for you though. No DH consistency is always going to skew people's opinions on pitchers.
|
|
|
Post by mgoetze on Dec 9, 2015 10:32:37 GMT -5
Had a good chuckle at the FG headline: "Diamondbacks Pay for Ace, Get Shelby Miller".
|
|
|
Post by dirtywater on Dec 9, 2015 10:34:06 GMT -5
Wade Miley and Shelby Miller have the very similar steamer projections for next year. One got traded for a young cost controlled starting centerfielder, a top 50 pitching prospect and the #1 overall pick in the 2015 MLB Draft. The other got traded for a reliever. I mean I understand the upside but deal lord. Once again, Miley got traded - along with Aro - for two players. I'm going to dig all these posts up and throw them out there once Elias comes on board. He's not dead meat, he's a swing man who's had periods when he's done very well as a starter. And, as has been pointed out, he doesn't have much mileage on his arm. For the record, I'm not against the Miley trade. I realize we got Elias too who defintiely adds value to the deal. I guess I was trying to be blunt and left him out of my point. Regardless, I don't think any of the secondary stuff in the trade even puts it in the same stratosphere as the Miller haul.
|
|
|
Post by savage365 on Dec 9, 2015 10:34:53 GMT -5
I chuckle at the comments of these pages always about how the Red Sox gave up too much. The people on this page would have claimed that the Red Sox gave up too much when they traded Pavano and Armas for Pedro.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywater on Dec 9, 2015 10:38:31 GMT -5
I chuckle at the comments of these pages always about how the Red Sox gave up too much. The people on this page would have claimed that the Red Sox gave up too much when they traded Pavano and Armas for Pedro. We can laugh at just about any trade in a vacuum. Every team can look back on deals that went lopsided for or against. You forgot about the immortal Casey Fossum. Looking at his bref page is fun. Welcome to the board btw.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 9, 2015 10:52:49 GMT -5
I wonder if Elias was Seattle's Barnes or Webster...Good stuff, just ran out of patience for him to put it together. Maybe Bannister can help him get there. Can't hurt for him to have a fellow countryman the same age as him in Castillo. Might help Castillo as well.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,018
|
Post by nomar on Dec 9, 2015 11:03:49 GMT -5
Am I a huge homer for thinking Benintendi is a better prospect than Swanson, but just wasn't drafted #1 so is ranked lower? Benintendi strikes out less, has a lot more power, is just as fast and both are probably 55 defenders at premium positions. I know shortstop is a weaker hitting position than CF, but not enough to make Swason project as well as Benintendi does.
|
|
|
Post by xanderdu on Dec 9, 2015 11:17:05 GMT -5
Here at the biosphere, there's no one to be found. No players, execs, or media in sight after a walk around the resort. Either they partied hard last night, or their all holed up trying to get things done. Eerily quiet in the lobby and convention dpace. Even the ML B Network set has nothing but Harold Reynolds doing photo Ops for people. Never seen it this slow in any of my 3 visits to the WM. Hang on folks, it could be another wild day of signings from Nashville
|
|
|
Post by ethanbein on Dec 9, 2015 11:18:22 GMT -5
Am I a huge homer for thinking Benintendi is a better prospect than Swanson, but just wasn't drafted #1 so is ranked lower? Benintendi strikes out less, has a lot more power, is just as fast and both are probably 55 defenders at premium positions. I know shortstop is a weaker hitting position than CF, but not enough to make Swason project as well as Benintendi does. It's close, but I would probably rather have Benintendi than Swanson.
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Dec 9, 2015 11:26:04 GMT -5
I chuckle at the comments of these pages always about how the Red Sox gave up too much. The people on this page would have claimed that the Red Sox gave up too much when they traded Pavano and Armas for Pedro. I'd just point out that there is a difference between a good trade and a trade that works out well (in retrospect). At the time of the deal, moves are judged based on the value of the assets at the time of the deal (that goes for signings, trades, drafts, etc). In 2000, it would've been bad to draft Tom Brady with the 1st pick overall (at the time), because that wasn't his value and you could've gotten him for less (in this case, a 6th round pick). The fact that he turned out to be the GOAT doesn't change what his value was at the time of the transaction.
|
|
|
Post by sox fan in nc on Dec 9, 2015 11:32:33 GMT -5
I can't see DD really doing anything else but trying to unload Panda or Hanley at a fair price. I think we've spent our allotment of money & prospects. Also, it sounds like PanHan are working out & making progress physically, so even trying to move them seems remote.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Dec 9, 2015 11:36:22 GMT -5
Am I a huge homer for thinking Benintendi is a better prospect than Swanson, but just wasn't drafted #1 so is ranked lower? Benintendi strikes out less, has a lot more power, is just as fast and both are probably 55 defenders at premium positions. I know shortstop is a weaker hitting position than CF, but not enough to make Swason project as well as Benintendi does. Shortstop is a much more premium position than center field (five run difference in positional adjustments), and I think Swanson's a better defender at SS than Benintendi is at CF. Agree that Benintendi is the better hitter and that the gap between them is much smaller now than it was when the draft occurred-- Benintendi's continued strong showing has mitigated some of the one-year-wonder risk that he was saddled with back in June.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,018
|
Post by nomar on Dec 9, 2015 11:42:43 GMT -5
Am I a huge homer for thinking Benintendi is a better prospect than Swanson, but just wasn't drafted #1 so is ranked lower? Benintendi strikes out less, has a lot more power, is just as fast and both are probably 55 defenders at premium positions. I know shortstop is a weaker hitting position than CF, but not enough to make Swason project as well as Benintendi does. Shortstop is a much more premium position than center field (five run difference in positional adjustments), and I think Swanson's a better defender at SS than Benintendi is at CF. Agree that Benintendi is the better hitter and that the gap between them is much smaller now than it was when the draft occurred-- Benintendi's continued strong showing has mitigated some of the one-year-wonder risk that he was saddled with back in June. Fair enough. Ironically, however, I've seen Benintendi's glove get more plus reviews than Swanson at SS. Way too early to tell though. Benny did have a -2.5 FRAA in Greenville though in a small sample size.
|
|