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2016 Red Sox Spring Training News/Discussion
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Post by dirtywater43 on Mar 25, 2016 4:25:50 GMT -5
That'll get you a Trevor Bauer probably with that package, maybe another throw in. I hope you weren't expecting Carrasco with that set of players. Carrasco is starting with a JBJ package followed with probably a lot more. Ohh and Salazar isn't being traded for anything less than a Mookie Betts, which is why we can stop dreaming about Salazar right now. OK.....JBJ + Owens + Travis for Carrasco....I think I'd have to pull that trigger. OF will get crowded next year when AB/Moncada being close to ready....Carrasco is signed for another 5 years on Miley dollars (until age 34) last 2 of those years team options @ 9 mil. I'd go with Mookie CF, Young LF, Castillo RF...Murphy & Holt/Shaw on the bench. Decent 4th OF'ers are not the hardest thing to find if injuries occur. I think you're closer but still come up short unfortunately. The Indians would probably want Devers instead of Travis. The Indians don't have to trade Carrasco either and probably wouldn't want to unless they're blown away.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 25, 2016 5:34:44 GMT -5
Please take the trade discussions somewhere else.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 25, 2016 7:02:15 GMT -5
Put me in the camp that says unless we are totally blown away by an offer, we shouldn't be trading anybody for at least 2-3 months into the season. That includes excess outfielders and catchers. I wouldn't make a trade just to make a trade, but if we have a need we should fill it. 2-3 months is a long time if you have a bunch of injuries early on. Trading an OF would create a need in the OF. That's why this doesn't make any sense at all. Imagine trading Castillo and then JBJ tears his ACL. WTF happens then? Mookie back to CF and ? in RF? Chris Young facing every RHP in RF? Disaster. All so we can have a 12th starting pitcher? Castillo is getting a lot of crap lately, but he's still easily an above replacement level player because of his defense. Chris Young playing every day would be a downgrade from Castillo, and an even bigger one if he has to play anything other than LF.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 25, 2016 8:07:08 GMT -5
Yeah, this team's outfield is potentially really shaky already. They're not in a position to trade any of those guys away.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Mar 25, 2016 8:23:10 GMT -5
I'm not comfortable with our depth at any level of the org to make a trade for a starting pitcher who would actually be an upgrade. I hope we don't make a trade.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 25, 2016 10:33:27 GMT -5
In what world is Salazar worth Betts?? I just don't see it. I get Salazar would cost a bunch of prospects, but one of the best young players in the game? So far Betts has shown he's just a notch above Salazar. Now Castillo, Owens and Travis for Bauer is only a good trade if you think Castillo is a bust and you want to just dump his large contract. I just think Owens alone if given a chance is very close to the pitcher Bauer is. He isn't worth a Mookie Betts to the Red Sox but the Indians don't have to trade him and that's what they would ask for. That's the piece you're missing here. I'm not sure that's nearly as true as you think. Cleveland has fiscal uncertainty and is stuck in the netherworld of having a pretty good, but not excellent, team. They could be enticed to trade Salazar if they thought the return was sufficient in terms of MLB-ready players who would be solid, if not spectacular, performers. They need a number of low-cost options, and they would still have two very good SP.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 25, 2016 10:36:26 GMT -5
I'm not comfortable with our depth at any level of the org to make a trade for a starting pitcher who would actually be an upgrade. I hope we don't make a trade. I agree...they have a few holes created from ST, and their depth is adequate in the OF but has several questions. I think they really need to get into the regular season and see how the injuries progress, how the team gets going, etc. If they get a desperate team making a great offer, maybe, but this team doesn't need more holes.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 25, 2016 15:19:20 GMT -5
It's the stupid time of year where the reporters are the story, but whatever.
Jon Heyman Verified account @jonheyman
A few teams have talked to padres about James shields. O's are one. Red sox have talked to SD about SP; shields logical
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 25, 2016 16:20:48 GMT -5
A few teams have talked to padres about James shields. O's are one. Red sox have talked to SD about SP; shields logical Crossing my fingers that the talks are along the lines of "hey, you guys agreed to send us Shields along with Kimbrel and we totally forgot about it until just now".
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Post by telson13 on Mar 25, 2016 16:21:36 GMT -5
It's the stupid time of year where the reporters are the story, but whatever. Jon Heyman Verified account @jonheyman A few teams have talked to padres about James shields. O's are one. Red sox have talked to SD about SP; shields logical At this point, though...who would the use? Kelly looks terrific. Buchholz is who he is. Porcello isn't likely going anywhere. And Rodriguez (when healthy) is probably the #2. So even a Shields-Panda deal would require a SP move. Buchholz maybe? Idk...this is a weird time of ST, as you say. Everyone clambering to find a story. Not that getting Shields for Panda and putting Shaw at 3rd would necessarily be a bad thing, but who's the b/u 3b then? Holt? Hanley? This team has depth, but a lot of questions. I kinda like them as constituted until some of those questions have more defined answers.
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Post by mgoetze on Mar 25, 2016 16:28:24 GMT -5
Yeah, logical to a reporter who doesn't need to get bogged down in details like the fact the Sox play half their games at Fenway Park.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 25, 2016 16:35:55 GMT -5
Yeah, logical to a reporter who doesn't need to get bogged down in details like the fact the Sox play half their games at Fenway Park. Yeah, but if it's Fenway Park on the planet Bizarro, it is logical. And apparently Batman v Superman is worth seeing there, too.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 25, 2016 16:48:41 GMT -5
A few teams have talked to padres about James shields. O's are one. Red sox have talked to SD about SP; shields logical Crossing my fingers that the talks are along the lines of "hey, you guys agreed to send us Shields along with Kimbrel and we totally forgot about it until just now". It's the stupid time of year where the reporters are the story, but whatever. Jon Heyman Verified account @jonheyman A few teams have talked to padres about James shields. O's are one. Red sox have talked to SD about SP; shields logical At this point, though...who would the use? Kelly looks terrific. Buchholz is who he is. Porcello isn't likely going anywhere. And Rodriguez (when healthy) is probably the #2. So even a Shields-Panda deal would require a SP move. Buchholz maybe? Idk...this is a weird time of ST, as you say. Everyone clambering to find a story. Not that getting Shields for Panda and putting Shaw at 3rd would necessarily be a bad thing, but who's the b/u 3b then? Holt? Hanley? This team has depth, but a lot of questions. I kinda like them as constituted until some of those questions have more defined answers. I honestly do not believe James Shields could start for us even if he volunteered. That's how bad a fit he is for the ballpark. Let's see ... an average 3.71 ERA projection, which is 4.04 in the AL East, which is 4.32 with a normal park adjustment. Add the badness of fit and he has to be around Miley's 4.46, and we correctly got rid of him.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 25, 2016 16:58:00 GMT -5
What about Tyson Ross? That might be more "logical."
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Post by telson13 on Mar 25, 2016 17:05:20 GMT -5
What about Tyson Ross? That might be more "logical." Why? Who is he going to replace in the rotation? Kelly? Porcello (not happening)? Buchholz? That's maybe 1.5 wins, tops 2. Could easily be nothing. And after the Shelby Miller trade, it looks like you'd have to give up a ton for a small improvement. Unless they could somehow package Elias, Johnson, and (a) prospect(s) outside of the top 5, it's just not worth it...unless they were to trade Buchholz and/or do a three-team deal with him as the major piece.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Mar 25, 2016 17:07:18 GMT -5
Im not saying it will happen and if I did it would go in thr trade proposal subforum but I'm only saying they may be discussing it, maybe Buchholz gets injured again.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 25, 2016 17:09:22 GMT -5
Crossing my fingers that the talks are along the lines of "hey, you guys agreed to send us Shields along with Kimbrel and we totally forgot about it until just now". At this point, though...who would the use? Kelly looks terrific. Buchholz is who he is. Porcello isn't likely going anywhere. And Rodriguez (when healthy) is probably the #2. So even a Shields-Panda deal would require a SP move. Buchholz maybe? Idk...this is a weird time of ST, as you say. Everyone clambering to find a story. Not that getting Shields for Panda and putting Shaw at 3rd would necessarily be a bad thing, but who's the b/u 3b then? Holt? Hanley? This team has depth, but a lot of questions. I kinda like them as constituted until some of those questions have more defined answers. I honestly do not believe James Shields could start for us even if he volunteered. That's how bad a fit he is for the ballpark. Let's see ... an average 3.71 ERA projection, which is 4.04 in the AL East, which is 4.32 with a normal park adjustment. Add the badness of fit and he has to be around Miley's 4.46, and we correctly got rid of him. Yeah, my basic retort to any proposed pitching acquisition. Most pitchers represent either an even trade with the rotation guys they have now, or are actually a predictable downgrade. If they're an upgrade, the cost is prohibitive for liable minimal improvement.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Mar 25, 2016 17:12:53 GMT -5
If we traded significant prospects for Tyson Ross, the Padres would owe us big time for singlehandedly funding their rebuild.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 25, 2016 17:15:30 GMT -5
I'd be happiest just seeing them go into the season and see how things shake out. They took a couple ST hits, but Barnes looks good, and so does Shaw. Starters look as expected or better (Kelly). Finish up ST without any more injuries hopefully, and let April prompt any moves, if necessary.
Here's hoping Price continues looking sharp today.
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Post by iakovos11 on Mar 25, 2016 17:53:42 GMT -5
Maybe it's complete BS. Some agent getting the Sox involved?
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Mar 25, 2016 19:07:33 GMT -5
I'm just saying abstractly, we maximize value for someone like JBJ or Castillo as centerfielders and we already have 3 legitimate plus defensive center fielders. We can't play all of them in CF at once and we have Young, Holt, even Hanley, Shaw, or Murphy as depth beyond Mookie. It's always a risk to trade depth but it's a reasonable risk potentially in this instance.
Especially if you think Castillo may well be an albatross contract before he's done. He's essentially a negative drain as a 4th OF on any team if that is where he ends up and we all know that could well happen. I think the odds are 50/50. I don't like those odds on a $10 mil / year multi year deal.
To me, JBJ is less expensive and less risk overall but he may well be maxed out already as well. In such instances maybe an appropriate calculated risk is to unload Castillo's contract to some team of different opinion. Maybe that transaction doesn't happen later in the year if he doesn't hit. Considering our overall situation, I'm unloading Castillo's contract now if possible. I recognize that he may still prove to be of plus value and even a bargain before he's through but I can't honestly project that going forward with confidence. And if some team needs a CF right now they might be willing to do that gamble. We might even get a return player of decent value.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 25, 2016 20:53:48 GMT -5
I think the Sox have decided they like having the talent patrolling the outfield. In the abstract, it might seem like a good idea to stick those guys out there, the reality is left field in Fenway is tougher than it looks. We got a taste of that last season. They have lots of pitching. I don't think they'll be looking for more by trading away the pieces they have.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 26, 2016 0:49:02 GMT -5
What about Tyson Ross? That might be more "logical." Ross is a guy who has thrived by being ordinary against the best hitters and dominating the weak ones. 833, OPS allowed, career, to 3 & 4 hitters 797, same, Porcello 613, OPS allowed to 7 through 9 hitters (non-pitchers) 714, Porcello You'll pay for a #2 starter, but he'll be a #3 against tougher AL lineups and a #4 in the post-season against elite ones. Incidentally, the '04 Cardinals rotation ranked 4th in the NL in ERA, but all of their guys fit this description, and I correctly predicted they'd struggle big-time against us for that reason.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Mar 26, 2016 1:52:04 GMT -5
He isn't worth a Mookie Betts to the Red Sox but the Indians don't have to trade him and that's what they would ask for. That's the piece you're missing here. I'm not sure that's nearly as true as you think. Cleveland has fiscal uncertainty and is stuck in the netherworld of having a pretty good, but not excellent, team. They could be enticed to trade Salazar if they thought the return was sufficient in terms of MLB-ready players who would be solid, if not spectacular, performers. They need a number of low-cost options, and they would still have two very good SP. Trading young cost controlled talented starting pitching isn't in the best interest of any team. You can guarantee that if the Sox wanted Salazar, that the conversation is starting with Mookie. The Indians don't have to trade him and they could have 3 cost controlled starters instead and could find a league average outfielder elsewhere without having to give up a Salazar. They still have to sell tickets, and the cost of getting rid of Salazar on a basis of thinking of the "team not being very good" isn't going to sell fans in Cleveland. It's the same reason why the A's didn't trade Sonny Gray this year, even though that organization should of and had the perfect gm there to trade Gray.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Mar 26, 2016 1:56:41 GMT -5
I'm just asking the question. If it was just James Shields for Pablo Sandoval, would that be better than just having Pablo?
I'm not sure. Maybe the Sox are just better having to dfa Pablo if he doesn't work out this year or the start of next year.
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