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Post by James Dunne on Feb 24, 2016 13:41:41 GMT -5
Guys I heard Adrian Gonzalez went to church Sunday instead of showing to the park early.
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Post by mredsox89 on Feb 24, 2016 13:53:46 GMT -5
If Hanley and/or Pablo play like complete garbage in April, then sure, these complaints are valid. But they haven't even suited up for a ST game yet. I'm not sure what more we could want from Hanley (assuming he did spend a lot of time with a personal 1B coach this offseason). With Sandoval, I'd imagine the leash is pretty short on him unless he somehow is in much better shape than he looks (it has happened before).
Now both may be an unmitigated disaster, again, Sandoval likely fare more so than Ramirez, but I'd like to wait until they at least pretend to play before completely thrashing them
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 24, 2016 15:08:49 GMT -5
Reports out of camp is that Hanley is goofing around and laughing while not putting extra work at first base already. Is anybody else worried? I kind of am, I want this guy succeed here at first for just one year. The Sox could really use his bat potential this year. God this stinks Oh no, he laughed? Anything but that... This is reaching self-parody level. Every little thing he (and Sandoval) do going forward are going to be subject to confirmation bias by the talk radio crowd. If you're convinced that they're lazy dispassionate jerks, you'll see everything through that lens. What? No I said I want Hanley to succeed, not fail. If he's not going to try and handle the position, then it is indeed scary because the Sox do need his bat. It's just not a good look and I hope it's not a preview for things to come.
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Post by kman22 on Feb 24, 2016 15:16:14 GMT -5
Oh no, he laughed? Anything but that... This is reaching self-parody level. Every little thing he (and Sandoval) do going forward are going to be subject to confirmation bias by the talk radio crowd. If you're convinced that they're lazy dispassionate jerks, you'll see everything through that lens. What? No I said I want Hanley to succeed, not fail. If he's not going to try and handle the position, then it is indeed scary because the Sox do need his bat. It's just not a good look and I hope it's not a preview for things to come. Where is it that are you seeing these reports?
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 24, 2016 15:33:28 GMT -5
Exactly, jmei. There's not much for unbiased opinions here, everything Hanley & Pablo through a certain colored lens. You want guys loose and able to laugh and joke. The guys are human. The glove issue is BS used by Hanley haters. Let's just see what happens. I'm NOT going to apologize for him, but I'm going to give him a chance to prove himself at 1B. Open mind. Actually, I see the talk show bunch as the lazy, dispassionate jerks. I also think it is ok to laugh while getting paid to play a kid's game. My concern about Hanley as an average 1B has virtually disappeared watching him take reps, listening to him intelligently describe his course of traiinng to adapt to 1B, and the fact that he worked with Sox-approved coaches and trainers while taking reps at 1B for the last 6 weeks. One should never, ever, ever incorporate pot-stirring, intentionally negative, talking head transitory opinions into our own. These Sox are too good to focus on their inevitable warts.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 24, 2016 15:50:45 GMT -5
What? No I said I want Hanley to succeed, not fail. If he's not going to try and handle the position, then it is indeed scary because the Sox do need his bat. It's just not a good look and I hope it's not a preview for things to come. Where is it that are you seeing these reports? Every sideline reporter that has been watching Hanley consistently right now is saying same thing. Whether it's Dan Rouche, Mike Giardi, Lou Merloni, Sean McCadam. All of them are saying the same exact thing. They're watching Shaw take serious reps while they take it easy on Hanley. Then while Hanley is taking those reps, he's goofing around like a 5 year old. I personally saw a video where Hanley was taking throws at first base while having a baseball in his mouth. It's not good what's coming out of camp so far. That's all. I hope he can still do it. We will find out by the first couple of games if he can be competent or not.
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Post by tonyc on Feb 24, 2016 15:53:42 GMT -5
Jimed, while I've agreed with the vast majority of your fine posts, I'll have to agree to disagree here at least in part. Yes, this amount of wealth and consumption versus the rest of the world is an unfortunate reality, which perhaps Pablo could be construed to symbolize. However, this is not a fictitious problem, and no amount of wealth- or personal trainers or dietitians can necessarily provide an easy fix for the many- roughly a third of our nation- struggling with this disease. While we may offer a mulligan of compassion toward the more obvious physical illnesses, our culture is less inclined to do so with neurologically imbedded challenges- which this is, and I have similarly even seen professionals treat psychological ailments with stigma. Alienation, of other people and beings, in it's many guises- and I'm certainly not immune either- is at the heart of all individual and societal ills.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 24, 2016 19:50:21 GMT -5
Then you may need to rethink your approach to language and save "hate" for something way more meaningful. I try to stay away from the word myself.
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Post by kjkramer on Feb 24, 2016 21:27:54 GMT -5
John Tomase @jtomase 7m7 minutes ago Pablo Sandoval just said his body fat percentage was 23% last year and is down to 17% now. "I'm proud of that," he said. "I worked hard." (for those who cant see it) Wow!!!! Why are they covering for him?? Is he that fragile? I know a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT about bodY fat percentages. I have lifted weights and competed and have been a personal trainer for over 25 years now. He is no where close to 17%!! I estimate him to be 24-27 percent. No way is he under 23% bf. That is the bare minimum that I feel he is and the bottom number that I would basically bet my house on. I am fairly confident he is about 24% BF and as high as 28% A 17%bf guy is leaner then one would think. I do not get the lies and the use of specifics. 17% Really? Nope!! Here is a link. Go look yourself www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Feb 24, 2016 21:40:56 GMT -5
John Tomase @jtomase 7m7 minutes ago Pablo Sandoval just said his body fat percentage was 23% last year and is down to 17% now. "I'm proud of that," he said. "I worked hard." (for those who cant see it) Wow!!!! Why are they covering for him?? Is he that fragile? I know a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT about bodY fat percentages. I have lifted weights and competed and have been a personal trainer for over 25 years now. He is no where close to 17%!! I estimate him to be 24-27 percent. No way is he under 23% bf. That is the bare minimum that I feel he is and the bottom number that I would basically bet my house on. I am fairly confident he is about 24% BF and as high as 28% A 17%bf guy is leaner then one would think. I do not get the lies and the use of specifics. 17% Really? Nope!! Here is a link. Go look yourself www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/Here are some pics of people with various % of body fat. The idea that you can have a belly that size and be at 17% body fat is pretty funny. paindatabase.com/body-fat/
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Post by kjkramer on Feb 24, 2016 21:59:18 GMT -5
Wow!!!! Why are they covering for him?? Is he that fragile? I know a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT about bodY fat percentages. I have lifted weights and competed and have been a personal trainer for over 25 years now. He is no where close to 17%!! I estimate him to be 24-27 percent. No way is he under 23% bf. That is the bare minimum that I feel he is and the bottom number that I would basically bet my house on. I am fairly confident he is about 24% BF and as high as 28% A 17%bf guy is leaner then one would think. I do not get the lies and the use of specifics. 17% Really? Nope!! Here is a link. Go look yourself www.builtlean.com/2012/09/24/body-fat-percentage-men-women/Here are some pics of people with various % of body fat. The idea that you can have a belly that size and be at 17% body fat is pretty funny. paindatabase.com/body-fat/I do not get the lies for what reason? i have been a little shocked on BF tests on some clients but the only thing "shocking" here is their claims and why? MOST people would consider most people at 15-17 percent bodyfat to be fairly lean. Most people with any muscle at 17% would look fairly lean. Muscle skews the percents lower but not much. On paper and looking at descriptors and comparing him to pictures online... he would be 30-35 percent. I am lowballing 23% as a muscle skewed low limit. That would be an extreme low guess. Again..... i think they are covering for him to keep him mentally in the game and hoping for return on the investment but i have HUGE issues with the lies by all the SOx staff. Huge issues with the lies!!! just say NOTHING. let it die.. say nothing and let it go and hope he performs.... the lies have me shocked and wondering why. Why come out with 17? unless they meant 27%? I would buy 27%
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 25, 2016 3:18:39 GMT -5
Please do good at first base Hanley. At least be competent there. The Sox could really use you. Fingers and toes crossed. Too bad I can only hope.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Feb 25, 2016 6:39:49 GMT -5
Then you may need to rethink your approach to language and save "hate" for something way more meaningful. I try to stay away from the word myself. There's nothing more meaningfull to me in this world than Red Sox Baseball and Pablo Sandoval substantialy hurts my baseballing enjoyment so no, I'll keep hating the fat dude
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Feb 25, 2016 23:32:58 GMT -5
I think the lack of effort from guys like Sandoval and Hanley is an indictment of Farrell. They know he plugs in the veterans into the lineup and favors player who have accumulated the most service time.
Farrell worked when he was given players that didn't need the extra motivation but players seem to be have been tuning him out. Hanley's lack of effort had Pedroia assuming the role of player-coach since Farrell doesn't seem to want or be able to do it.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 26, 2016 0:42:26 GMT -5
Jimed, while I've agreed with the vast majority of your fine posts, I'll have to agree to disagree here at least in part. Yes, this amount of wealth and consumption versus the rest of the world is an unfortunate reality, which perhaps Pablo could be construed to symbolize. However, this is not a fictitious problem, and no amount of wealth- or personal trainers or dietitians can necessarily provide an easy fix for the many- roughly a third of our nation- struggling with this disease. While we may offer a mulligan of compassion toward the more obvious physical illnesses, our culture is less inclined to do so with neurologically imbedded challenges- which this is, and I have similarly even seen professionals treat psychological ailments with stigma. Alienation, of other people and beings, in it's many guises- and I'm certainly not immune either- is at the heart of all individual and societal ills. Isolation is the key...this is a great point, Tony. A lot of the advances in neurobiological/neuropsychiatric studies regarding addiction are showing that the habitual behaviors that result in addiction are tied largely to social isolation. Predisposition to addiction is highly genetically linked...I believe the genotype (polygenic) in a Harvard study suggested a 50% prevalence in the susceptible population, which jumped to something like 90% when exposed to substances of abuse during the teenage years (when frontal lobe/executive function is most plastic). Overeating is a clear maladaptive coping mechanism which runs on the same dopaminergic pathway that is compulsively fed in gambling, sex, or drug addictions. The way to deal with it isn't simple by any means, and is unrelated to wealth.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 26, 2016 2:18:24 GMT -5
Jimed, while I've agreed with the vast majority of your fine posts, I'll have to agree to disagree here at least in part. Yes, this amount of wealth and consumption versus the rest of the world is an unfortunate reality, which perhaps Pablo could be construed to symbolize. However, this is not a fictitious problem, and no amount of wealth- or personal trainers or dietitians can necessarily provide an easy fix for the many- roughly a third of our nation- struggling with this disease. While we may offer a mulligan of compassion toward the more obvious physical illnesses, our culture is less inclined to do so with neurologically imbedded challenges- which this is, and I have similarly even seen professionals treat psychological ailments with stigma. Alienation, of other people and beings, in it's many guises- and I'm certainly not immune either- is at the heart of all individual and societal ills. Isolation is the key...this is a great point, Tony. A lot of the advances in neurobiological/neuropsychiatric studies regarding addiction are showing that the habitual behaviors that result in addiction are tied largely to social isolation. Predisposition to addiction is highly genetically linked...I believe the genotype (polygenic) in a Harvard study suggested a 50% prevalence in the susceptible population, which jumped to something like 90% when exposed to substances of abuse during the teenage years (when frontal lobe/executive function is most plastic). Overeating is a clear maladaptive coping mechanism which runs on the same dopaminergic pathway that is compulsively fed in gambling, sex, or drug addictions. The way to deal with it isn't simple by any means, and is unrelated to wealth. In other words, Panda has been coping with his issues, both real time and genetic, in ways which render his wide body obese. Most Americans, whether obese or anorexic, can identify. Pablo has dealt with it for at least a decade by finding ways to succeed while compensating for those extra pounds. For a few years, at least, he actually turned those pounds into super-hero-dom, as the Kung Fu Panda with 3 WS rings and a WS MVP. I suspect he is pre-disposed to compensate for personal failure and the venom of the Boston mediots and their lemming-like fans by, of course, eating. He has been and can be a very good player, and he looks good @ 3b so far. Let's hope that first-pitch hit off David Price is sufficient to get his mojo back, and calm the haters for a day or two (sorry radio, I have never heard you like this before).
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 26, 2016 11:59:15 GMT -5
I don't want this to come across at all as elitist or anything like that, but in running a business that routinely helps people lose 10-20 lbs in about 30 days without the after effect fluxuations there are two things I feel need to be said:
- There are so many reasons someone can be overweight it is impossible to diagnose it here. It can be a stress coping mechanism, it could be poor habits from youth, it could be that he simply doesn't care at all. But the last one is almost certainly not true, it nearly never is. Usually people feel hopeless about it, because they've tried before and the problem never got fixed.
- If the team really wanted him to lose weight, there are real solutions out there today that they should have researched and helped him with. If we can do it for the average person on the street, I'm amazed the Red Sox haven't found a solution to their $95 million investment. To me the organization is just as much at fault as the player, unless they laid out a specific strategy and he didn't follow it.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 26, 2016 12:03:07 GMT -5
LOL, psychoanalysis by media reports.
I prefer the simple explanation, calories in > calories out.
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Post by gatorgreenwell on Feb 26, 2016 12:30:53 GMT -5
Can someone who is a bit more tech savvy than myself post a side by side of Panda at the end of last yr and now? I feel like at the end of last year, he was ENORMOUS. Like rotund. Now he's still fat, but not quite as obese.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 26, 2016 19:56:44 GMT -5
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Post by raftsox on Feb 26, 2016 21:06:24 GMT -5
Here are some pics of people with various % of body fat. The idea that you can have a belly that size and be at 17% body fat is pretty funny. paindatabase.com/body-fat/I do not get the lies for what reason? i have been a little shocked on BF tests on some clients but the only thing "shocking" here is their claims and why? MOST people would consider most people at 15-17 percent bodyfat to be fairly lean. Most people with any muscle at 17% would look fairly lean. Muscle skews the percents lower but not much. On paper and looking at descriptors and comparing him to pictures online... he would be 30-35 percent. I am lowballing 23% as a muscle skewed low limit. That would be an extreme low guess. Again..... i think they are covering for him to keep him mentally in the game and hoping for return on the investment but i have HUGE issues with the lies by all the SOx staff. Huge issues with the lies!!! just say NOTHING. let it die.. say nothing and let it go and hope he performs.... the lies have me shocked and wondering why. Why come out with 17? unless they meant 27%? I would buy 27% This really isn't true. BF% isn't an indicator of athleticism, so let's not forget that. Then, for a strong person you actually can have lean limbs and back, but a high concentration of fat in the gut region. Look at nfl linemen or strongmen or Olympic weightifters (heavyweights) for example. Also, gut muscle diameter increases with heavy lifting. You can't assume he's Nomar on SI thin to begin with.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 26, 2016 23:14:18 GMT -5
Isolation is the key...this is a great point, Tony. A lot of the advances in neurobiological/neuropsychiatric studies regarding addiction are showing that the habitual behaviors that result in addiction are tied largely to social isolation. Predisposition to addiction is highly genetically linked...I believe the genotype (polygenic) in a Harvard study suggested a 50% prevalence in the susceptible population, which jumped to something like 90% when exposed to substances of abuse during the teenage years (when frontal lobe/executive function is most plastic). Overeating is a clear maladaptive coping mechanism which runs on the same dopaminergic pathway that is compulsively fed in gambling, sex, or drug addictions. The way to deal with it isn't simple by any means, and is unrelated to wealth. In other words, Panda has been coping with his issues, both real time and genetic, in ways which render his wide body obese. Most Americans, whether obese or anorexic, can identify. Pablo has dealt with it for at least a decade by finding ways to succeed while compensating for those extra pounds. For a few years, at least, he actually turned those pounds into super-hero-dom, as the Kung Fu Panda with 3 WS rings and a WS MVP. I suspect he is pre-disposed to compensate for personal failure and the venom of the Boston mediots and their lemming-like fans by, of course, eating. He has been and can be a very good player, and he looks good @ 3b so far. U Let's hope that first-pitch hit off David Price is sufficient to get his mojo back, and calm the haters for a day or two (sorry radio, I have never heard you like this before). I think it's likely he has an addiction, yes. People somehow think of food addiction as easier to address than drug addiction. I'm not sure that's the case. They use the *exact* same neural pathways. While it's true that the *amount* of dopamine release is a lot less with food, food is also always available and is socially acceptable. Even if it's not addiction, there's quite a bit of research that's been coming out lately that indicates that metabolic rate actually *is* largely genetically determined, and by virtue of this, body habitus. Panda has always been chunky, essentially obese, but surprisingly athletic. That's just his body type. I imagine once he stops playing baseball, if he really does habitually overeat, he'll get huge. But I look at him when he first came up, and he looked pretty much like he does now. When I was that age (well, 21), I was 6', 160# and ran about a 4:20 mile. I only worked out 3 hours a day (mostly lifing, and running was largely sprinting, not distance), but I ate about 6000-7000 calories. I'm willing to bet Panda gets a similar amount of exercise in-season as I did. He's just at the other end of the metabolic spectrum. Dude's just chubby, and he probably uses eating as his addiction instead of in-flight beers, and chicken (and Margo Adams). I mean, when Doc Gooden and Darryl Strawberry were hooked on cocaine, did they not care about their careers? They were addicts...addiction *runs* on survival instinct. Not getting the drug signals in your brain the sense of "I'm gonna die if I don't do this." It's a lot deeper than "not caring." And Panda's denial that he has an issue, and seeking out an environment away from (3000 miles, too) the place where he thinks he's being forced to confront that issue...that sounds like addiction to me. I just wish him the best, and even though I didn't like the signing at the time, I really hope he convinces me that I was wrong.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 27, 2016 0:34:50 GMT -5
There's lots of money to be made in America by telling Americans with rampant obesity problems what they want to hear. Here's a picture of a bucket of lard that doesn't care if it's a bucket of lard: Here's a picture of a bucket of lard that doesn't want to be a bucket of lard: Somehow, they seem the same... ADD: It should be noted that the top bucket was measured by the Red Sox PR staff and contains 17% fat.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 27, 2016 1:39:02 GMT -5
...and there's certainly no money in talking about metabolism, lousy diet for any number of overweight kids, and genetics. You are what you eat, as a child, and that's where your body will take you later. You're welcome to ignore that science. I understand there is lots of money in that these days.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 27, 2016 3:06:16 GMT -5
...and there's certainly no money in talking about metabolism, lousy diet for any number of overweight kids, and genetics. You are what you eat, as a child, and that's where your body will take you later. You're welcome to ignore that science. I understand there is lots of money in that these days. Last I saw, this is a sports site, we're not talking about kids, we're talking about a professional athlete paid millions to be in the best shape he can be. I have zero sympathy for that or anyone else who is intelligent enough that it's a conscious decision.
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