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Reminiscing about the Lou Gorman Years
ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 20, 2016 14:58:46 GMT -5
How many home runs did Jeff Bagwell hit in a full season at AA before he was traded? My recollection is that it was 3. giant park, not a helpful parallel Hey, if Lou Gorman didn't know it then, you can't expect azblue to know it now! Sam Horn, Scott Cooper, and Greg Blosser lost an average .049 / .045 / .116 when they moved to Beehive from high-A. The first two somehow escaped Lou's attention (Blosser was the year after Bagwell). Add that to Bagwell's line in his season at Beehive and you get .382 / .467 / .573. Which, given that he hit .294 / .387 / .437 in the Astrodome the next year, is probably just about how good a season he actually had.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 21, 2016 11:13:26 GMT -5
How many home runs did Jeff Bagwell hit in a full season at AA before he was traded? My recollection is that it was 3. 4, in Beehive Stadium in New Britain, which was an absolute cavern back then. Mo Vaughn hit 8. But Portland is a smaller stadium, it's not nearly the power graveyard Beehive was. Point taken, though...Hanley didn't have many HR in the minors, either. Nor did Youk. Travis seems capable of developing his approach to generate more HR. How that affects his OBP remains to be seen.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 21, 2016 11:18:29 GMT -5
giant park, not a helpful parallel Hey, if Lou Gorman didn't know it then, you can't expect azblue to know it now! Sam Horn, Scott Cooper, and Greg Blosser lost an average .049 / .045 / .116 when they moved to Beehive from high-A. The first two somehow escaped Lou's attention (Blosser was the year after Bagwell). Add that to Bagwell's line in his season at Beehive and you get .382 / .467 / .573. Which, given that he hit .294 / .387 / .437 in the Astrodome the next year, is probably just about how good a season he actually had. I was a teenager at the time, and even I knew Beehive was a hitters' graveyard. I went cataplectic when they traded Bagwell, because he absolutely raked there (and was just one year out of Hartford). Scott Cooper sucked, and Gorman should've known it.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 21, 2016 12:53:25 GMT -5
Hey, if Lou Gorman didn't know it then, you can't expect azblue to know it now! Sam Horn, Scott Cooper, and Greg Blosser lost an average .049 / .045 / .116 when they moved to Beehive from high-A. The first two somehow escaped Lou's attention (Blosser was the year after Bagwell). Add that to Bagwell's line in his season at Beehive and you get .382 / .467 / .573. Which, given that he hit .294 / .387 / .437 in the Astrodome the next year, is probably just about how good a season he actually had. I was a teenager at the time, and even I knew Beehive was a hitters' graveyard. I went cataplectic when they traded Bagwell, because he absolutely raked there (and was just one year out of Hartford). Scott Cooper sucked, and Gorman should've known it. Yeah, I remember those days. I was about your age at that point and I remember how heavy the air was at New Britain. It felt like playing in the Grand Canyon. The Sox used to skip some prospects over AA. I don't think Greenwell ever played at New Britain. I do remember seeing Clemens dominate there in 1983 and watching him knowing that the Sox had themselves a future star (and I have to say that Anderson Espinoza is the most exciting pitching prospect the Sox have had since Clemens!). I was actually at Fenway Park on Aug 31st, 1990, and they announced the Bagwell for Larry Andersen deal on the jumbotron, and I swear I thought I heard an audible groan throughout the ballpark. It was a fun night as the Sox beat up the Yankees 7-2 behind Luis Rivera's grandslam and then they humiliated the last place Yankees and Andy Hawkins 15-1 the next day, but I'll never forget the feeling of when the trade was announced at Fenway. And as it turned out the Astros would have settled for Scott Cooper, Kevin Morton (I liked him at that time), or Dave Owen (WHO?), and Gorman, of course, chose to let that single hitting, defensively challenged 3b go to Houston instead!
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Post by telson13 on Mar 21, 2016 13:16:48 GMT -5
I was a teenager at the time, and even I knew Beehive was a hitters' graveyard. I went cataplectic when they traded Bagwell, because he absolutely raked there (and was just one year out of Hartford). Scott Cooper sucked, and Gorman should've known it. Yeah, I remember those days. I was about your age at that point and I remember how heavy the air was at New Britain. It felt like playing in the Grand Canyon. The Sox used to skip some prospects over AA. I don't think Greenwell ever played at New Britain. I do remember seeing Clemens dominate there in 1983 and watching him knowing that the Sox had themselves a future star (and I have to say that Anderson Espinoza is the most exciting pitching prospect the Sox have had since Clemens!). I was actually at Fenway Park on Aug 31st, 1990, and they announced the Bagwell for Larry Andersen deal on the jumbotron, and I swear I thought I heard an audible groan throughout the ballpark. It was a fun night as the Sox beat up the Yankees 7-2 behind Luis Rivera's grandslam and then they humiliated the last place Yankees and Andy Hawkins 15-1 the next day, but I'll never forget the feeling of when the trade was announced at Fenway. And as it turned out the Astros would have settled for Scott Cooper, Kevin Morton (I liked him at that time), or Dave Owen (WHO?), and Gorman, of course, chose to let that single hitting, defensively challenged 3b go to Houston instead! Dave Owen...wow. I liked Morton alright, too. Kind of an earlier Casey Fossum. The internal talent evaluation on Gorman's staffs was really terrible. They got lucky with Clemens (who was really self-made), but had a series of stupid mistakes in Tudor, Ojeda, and Bagwell. Bagwell bothered me the most because he was so clearly a good hitter...Gorman just didn't have the sense to look at the stadium (or the ridiculous OBP...the same thinking that left Boggs rotting in the minors two years too long). I think the Sox have improved tremendously on internal evaluation. And, most of baseball has gotten a lot better at drafting and signing talent. So my tendency with a guy like Travis is to be optimistic. It's just a sense, but it seems the washout rate for quality players (based on pre-professional hype) is lower, and the failures declare earlier in their careers. Basically, I see Travis's hitting prowess and consistency as very positive predictors, more so than the raw stats alone.
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Post by jamesmcgillstatue on Mar 21, 2016 14:03:34 GMT -5
No excuses made here for Gorman, but the Red Sox had a siloed organization at the time. Most of Gorman's department heads, minor league managers and scouts were holdovers from Haywood Sullivan's administration and Sullivan was still a general partner in 1990, if pushed to the sidelines by Harrington and Mrs. Yawkey. One of Gorman's only hires, Steve Schryver, who came from the Mets (like Lou), didn't fit in with the holdovers and was gone in a year or two.
The Baseball America 1990 Directory does not list any "pro scouts" as part of the Red Sox' org chart -- just scouting director Eddie Kasko, advance scout Frank Malzone, and Latin American supervisor Willie Paffen. IIRC, Sam Mele was one of their Major League scouts, though he's lumped in as an area scout on their BA page. Wayne Britton was still listed as an area scout, although he was likely a crosschecker by that point. The responsibilities for pro scouting were likely mixed in with the amateur scouts, with the New Britain manager (Butch Hobson) probably also responsible for reporting on his charges.
The Red Sox were also known to be extremely traditional in their minor league instruction strategy -- no field coordinators, only a roving pitching coach (Lee Stange) and batting coach (Terry Crowley). Their philosophy was "roll the ball out onto the field and let them play." To be fair to the Red Sox, though, they had excellent amateur scouts (Digby, Stephenson, Doyle, Enos, etc.) and BA's 1990 directory shows that only a few clubs had then created a professional scouting department distinct from amateur and Major League scouting corps.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 21, 2016 14:36:06 GMT -5
No excuses made here for Gorman, but the Red Sox had a siloed organization at the time. Most of Gorman's department heads, minor league managers and scouts were holdovers from Haywood Sullivan's administration and Sullivan was still a general partner in 1990, if pushed to the sidelines by Harrington and Mrs. Yawkey. One of Gorman's only hires, Steve Schryver, who came from the Mets (like Lou), didn't fit in with the holdovers and was gone in a year or two. The Baseball America 1990 Directory does not list any "pro scouts" as part of the Red Sox' org chart -- just scouting director Eddie Kasko, advance scout Frank Malzone, and Latin American supervisor Willie Paffen. IIRC, Sam Mele was one of their Major League scouts, though he's lumped in as an area scout on their BA page. Wayne Britton was still listed as an area scout, although he was likely a crosschecker by that point. The responsibilities for pro scouting were likely mixed in with the amateur scouts, with the New Britain manager (Butch Hobson) probably also responsible for reporting on his charges. The Red Sox were also known to be extremely traditional in their minor league instruction strategy -- no field coordinators, only a roving pitching coach (Lee Stange) and batting coach (Terry Crowley). Their philosophy was "roll the ball out onto the field and let them play." To be fair to the Red Sox, though, they had excellent amateur scouts (Digby, Stephenson, Doyle, Enos, etc.) and BA's 1990 directory shows that only a few clubs had then created a professional scouting department distinct from amateur and Major League scouting corps. I remember the "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" heave-ho to Sullivan. I agree that Gorman chose an unfortunate situation for himself. And he was actually pretty good at evaluating major league talent coming back. But they really struggled with core development, and they had a penchant for trading away great talents for minimal return (with the exception of Easler, who nevertheless was only around for two years). But yeah, their amateur scouting was excellent. Unfortunately, the understanding of the role of the minor league system as core development just wasn't there at all under Gorman. Which is odd, given the Clemens-Boggs-Rice-Evans-Hurst-Boyd-Tudor-Ojeda-Lynn bunch from the early 70s to early '80s. They were just always hamstringing themselves one or two players short of a great team, and then struggling to spend ($ or prospects) to get that "one guy" who they'd had two or three years earlier and just traded away for an aging veteran who was supposed to put them over the top. The Andersen acquisition, on the heels of Wllie McGee to the A's ("where would we play him?!") was the pinnacle of their reactionary strategy. When the well inevitably dried up under Gorman, and the core that he inherited and afforded him his success aged and declined, they became a truly awful team from '91-'94. I remember those days well enough that I can appreciate Cherington's approach to the minors, even if his MLB team construction was...ahhh...suboptimal.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 21, 2016 17:39:39 GMT -5
I was a teenager at the time, and even I knew Beehive was a hitters' graveyard. I went cataplectic when they traded Bagwell, because he absolutely raked there (and was just one year out of Hartford). Scott Cooper sucked, and Gorman should've known it. Yeah, I remember those days. I was about your age at that point and I remember how heavy the air was at New Britain. It felt like playing in the Grand Canyon. The Sox used to skip some prospects over AA. I don't think Greenwell ever played at New Britain. I do remember seeing Clemens dominate there in 1983 and watching him knowing that the Sox had themselves a future star (and I have to say that Anderson Espinoza is the most exciting pitching prospect the Sox have had since Clemens!). I was actually at Fenway Park on Aug 31st, 1990, and they announced the Bagwell for Larry Andersen deal on the jumbotron, and I swear I thought I heard an audible groan throughout the ballpark. It was a fun night as the Sox beat up the Yankees 7-2 behind Luis Rivera's grandslam and then they humiliated the last place Yankees and Andy Hawkins 15-1 the next day, but I'll never forget the feeling of when the trade was announced at Fenway. And as it turned out the Astros would have settled for Scott Cooper, Kevin Morton (I liked him at that time), or Dave Owen (WHO?), and Gorman, of course, chose to let that single hitting, defensively challenged 3b go to Houston instead! According to Gammons, they asked for either Morton, Owens, or Scott Taylor, and Gorman's reply was essentially, we can't afford to trade one of out three LHSP prospects because we need to have one pan out, and they're all a bit iffy, but we can certainly give you one of our 3B prospects because we'll be left with a solid MLB starter either way. Seriously. This is like being strapped for cash, and you have sitting in your big garage three slightly aging pickups up on blocks, and a new Lexus and a new Honda Accord, and someone offers you $3K for any of the three pickups, and you say, nah, I gotta get one of those pickups running but I can't really use two sedans. Take the Lexus, I think the Accord looks better.
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Post by jamesmcgillstatue on Mar 21, 2016 19:06:34 GMT -5
No excuses made here for Gorman, but the Red Sox had a siloed organization at the time. Most of Gorman's department heads, minor league managers and scouts were holdovers from Haywood Sullivan's administration and Sullivan was still a general partner in 1990, if pushed to the sidelines by Harrington and Mrs. Yawkey. One of Gorman's only hires, Steve Schryver, who came from the Mets (like Lou), didn't fit in with the holdovers and was gone in a year or two. The Baseball America 1990 Directory does not list any "pro scouts" as part of the Red Sox' org chart -- just scouting director Eddie Kasko, advance scout Frank Malzone, and Latin American supervisor Willie Paffen. IIRC, Sam Mele was one of their Major League scouts, though he's lumped in as an area scout on their BA page. Wayne Britton was still listed as an area scout, although he was likely a crosschecker by that point. The responsibilities for pro scouting were likely mixed in with the amateur scouts, with the New Britain manager (Butch Hobson) probably also responsible for reporting on his charges. The Red Sox were also known to be extremely traditional in their minor league instruction strategy -- no field coordinators, only a roving pitching coach (Lee Stange) and batting coach (Terry Crowley). Their philosophy was "roll the ball out onto the field and let them play." To be fair to the Red Sox, though, they had excellent amateur scouts (Digby, Stephenson, Doyle, Enos, etc.) and BA's 1990 directory shows that only a few clubs had then created a professional scouting department distinct from amateur and Major League scouting corps. I remember the "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" heave-ho to Sullivan. I agree that Gorman chose an unfortunate situation for himself. And he was actually pretty good at evaluating major league talent coming back. But they really struggled with core development, and they had a penchant for trading away great talents for minimal return (with the exception of Easler, who nevertheless was only around for two years). But yeah, their amateur scouting was excellent. Unfortunately, the understanding of the role of the minor league system as core development just wasn't there at all under Gorman. Which is odd, given the Clemens-Boggs-Rice-Evans-Hurst-Boyd-Tudor-Ojeda-Lynn bunch from the early 70s to early '80s. They were just always hamstringing themselves one or two players short of a great team, and then struggling to spend ($ or prospects) to get that "one guy" who they'd had two or three years earlier and just traded away for an aging veteran who was supposed to put them over the top. The Andersen acquisition, on the heels of Wllie McGee to the A's ("where would we play him?!") was the pinnacle of their reactionary strategy. When the well inevitably dried up under Gorman, and the core that he inherited and afforded him his success aged and declined, they became a truly awful team from '91-'94. I remember those days well enough that I can appreciate Cherington's approach to the minors, even if his MLB team construction was...ahhh...suboptimal. It's funny to say this of an organization that came within a strike of winning the 1986 world championship (as underdogs against a Mets team that won 108 games), and then won division titles in 1988 and 1990, but from my perspective the Red Sox were a very dysfunctional organization all during the Sullivan-LeRoux-Yawkey/Harrington era played out from 1980, when Lynn and Fisk left town, through the autumn of 1993 when Gorman was fired, Sullivan was bought out, and Duquette was hired away from Montreal and given carte blanche to run the baseball side of the ball club. I blame this dysfunction, more than Gorman, for the decline of the team in the early 1990s. You're right: Gorman chose an unfortunate situation because while he had the title of general manager, he was not allowed to shape the organization into a modern one. His background was impeccable, too: he trained under Harry Dalton in Baltimore, which pioneered standardized minor-league instruction (at least in the American League) and produced a home-grown dynasty; then Gorman (with the support of Ewing Kauffman and Cedric Tallis) built a top-tier player development organization with the Royals from scratch; and, after Seattle, where as GM of an expansion team with no money for free agent signings (unlike the Marlins of 1997 and the D-Backs of 2001) he predictably struggled, he built a first-class player development and scouting group with the Mets from 1980-83. Granted, they had very high draft picks, but they hit on guys up and down the draft and were a very productive farm system. Here, he was hired during the middle of the LeRoux-Sullivan/Yawkey 1984 power struggle and, as I said before, kept in place the department heads (Kasko and Ed Kenney Sr.) Sullivan had depended on. Both men were highly respected locally and in the media, but neither of them believed in the instruction-intensive player development concept that Dalton had in place in Baltimore. (And paging through old Baseball Blue Blook Red Sox guides of the mid-1980s, the number of slow, RHH, college senior first-basemen is staggering -- Dick Gernert and Norm Zauchin and Jack Baker types redux!)) It's interesting to note that Duquette was also a Harry Dalton guy, a fellow Amherst alum who broke into the game in Dalton's front office in Milwaukee. When DD began changing the guard in the Red Sox' scouting and player development groups, and longtime Red Sox hires abruptly retired or were moved sideways, the grumbling was pretty loud. (I think Lee Stange filed a lawsuit.) Duquette made it all worse, of course, with his tone-deaf and control-freak tendencies (I think the guy wrote his own Wiki page, it was so laudatory -- at least when I read it last a few years ago). But the Red Sox did not have a system-wide field coordinator of instruction in place until Duquette hired Bob Schaefer in 1994. (A guy the Duke would later clash with, and fire, of course.) So, anyway, Travis! Whatever he turns out to be, at least he'll be in an organization that will (I trust) project him a little more accurately than what it might have done had he been born a generation earlier ...
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Post by tonyc on Mar 21, 2016 19:12:59 GMT -5
Amen to all the Gorman comments. He was even rumored to have been close to dumping a young Mo Vaughn for an aging Syd Fernandez, and later admitted to buying into the Redsox fandom mentality of going for it every year- so good for Cherington indeed. I'll admit I incorrectly chided Gorman at the time he dumped Schiraldi for a supposedly injured Lee Smith. As soon as Duquette replaced him I was ecstatic and felt they would win a series some day- I always prayed for one in my lifetime!
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Post by telson13 on Mar 21, 2016 22:15:52 GMT -5
I remember the "don't let the door hit your ass on the way out" heave-ho to Sullivan. I agree that Gorman chose an unfortunate situation for himself. And he was actually pretty good at evaluating major league talent coming back. But they really struggled with core development, and they had a penchant for trading away great talents for minimal return (with the exception of Easler, who nevertheless was only around for two years). But yeah, their amateur scouting was excellent. Unfortunately, the understanding of the role of the minor league system as core development just wasn't there at all under Gorman. Which is odd, given the Clemens-Boggs-Rice-Evans-Hurst-Boyd-Tudor-Ojeda-Lynn bunch from the early 70s to early '80s. They were just always hamstringing themselves one or two players short of a great team, and then struggling to spend ($ or prospects) to get that "one guy" who they'd had two or three years earlier and just traded away for an aging veteran who was supposed to put them over the top. The Andersen acquisition, on the heels of Wllie McGee to the A's ("where would we play him?!") was the pinnacle of their reactionary strategy. When the well inevitably dried up under Gorman, and the core that he inherited and afforded him his success aged and declined, they became a truly awful team from '91-'94. I remember those days well enough that I can appreciate Cherington's approach to the minors, even if his MLB team construction was...ahhh...suboptimal. It's funny to say this of an organization that came within a strike of winning the 1986 world championship (as underdogs against a Mets team that won 108 games), and then won division titles in 1988 and 1990, but from my perspective the Red Sox were a very dysfunctional organization all during the Sullivan-LeRoux-Yawkey/Harrington era played out from 1980, when Lynn and Fisk left town, through the autumn of 1993 when Gorman was fired, Sullivan was bought out, and Duquette was hired away from Montreal and given carte blanche to run the baseball side of the ball club. I blame this dysfunction, more than Gorman, for the decline of the team in the early 1990s. You're right: Gorman chose an unfortunate situation because while he had the title of general manager, he was not allowed to shape the organization into a modern one. His background was impeccable, too: he trained under Harry Dalton in Baltimore, which pioneered standardized minor-league instruction (at least in the American League) and produced a home-grown dynasty; then Gorman (with the support of Ewing Kauffman and Cedric Tallis) built a top-tier player development organization with the Royals from scratch; and, after Seattle, where as GM of an expansion team with no money for free agent signings (unlike the Marlins of 1997 and the D-Backs of 2001) he predictably struggled, he built a first-class player development and scouting group with the Mets from 1980-83. Granted, they had very high draft picks, but they hit on guys up and down the draft and were a very productive farm system. Here, he was hired during the middle of the LeRoux-Sullivan/Yawkey 1984 power struggle and, as I said before, kept in place the department heads (Kasko and Ed Kenney Sr.) Sullivan had depended on. Both men were highly respected locally and in the media, but neither of them believed in the instruction-intensive player development concept that Dalton had in place in Baltimore. (And paging through old Baseball Blue Blook Red Sox guides of the mid-1980s, the number of slow, RHH, college senior first-basemen is staggering -- Dick Gernert and Norm Zauchin and Jack Baker types redux!)) It's interesting to note that Duquette was also a Harry Dalton guy, a fellow Amherst alum who broke into the game in Dalton's front office in Milwaukee. When DD began changing the guard in the Red Sox' scouting and player development groups, and longtime Red Sox hires abruptly retired or were moved sideways, the grumbling was pretty loud. (I think Lee Stange filed a lawsuit.) Duquette made it all worse, of course, with his tone-deaf and control-freak tendencies (I think the guy wrote his own Wiki page, it was so laudatory -- at least when I read it last a few years ago). But the Red Sox did not have a system-wide field coordinator of instruction in place until Duquette hired Bob Schaefer in 1994. (A guy the Duke would later clash with, and fire, of course.) So, anyway, Travis! Whatever he turns out to be, at least he'll be in an organization that will (I trust) project him a little more accurately than what it might have done had he been born a generation earlier ... Great summary of the bad old days. Those very good teams were built on the back of terrific amateur scouting, only to be sabotaged by the dinosaurs up top. Sweet Lou was quotable and did pretty well with his situation, but it was a mess to start. That they couldn't win a WS despite the ridiculously impressive run of players they had from the early '70s to early '90s (many of whom, like Bagwell, Schilling, Lynn, Tudor, etc were traded away) speaks to the organizational dysfunction. It's amazing what a change the new ownership has made. Guys like Travis (1b without power) or Betts never would've moved the needle. And forget about int'l signings like Bogaerts or Espinoza. Dombrowski makes me a little nervous as a wheeler-dealer, but I at least trust him to know and properly evaluate his own players.
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Post by telson13 on Mar 21, 2016 22:20:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember those days. I was about your age at that point and I remember how heavy the air was at New Britain. It felt like playing in the Grand Canyon. The Sox used to skip some prospects over AA. I don't think Greenwell ever played at New Britain. I do remember seeing Clemens dominate there in 1983 and watching him knowing that the Sox had themselves a future star (and I have to say that Anderson Espinoza is the most exciting pitching prospect the Sox have had since Clemens!). I was actually at Fenway Park on Aug 31st, 1990, and they announced the Bagwell for Larry Andersen deal on the jumbotron, and I swear I thought I heard an audible groan throughout the ballpark. It was a fun night as the Sox beat up the Yankees 7-2 behind Luis Rivera's grandslam and then they humiliated the last place Yankees and Andy Hawkins 15-1 the next day, but I'll never forget the feeling of when the trade was announced at Fenway. And as it turned out the Astros would have settled for Scott Cooper, Kevin Morton (I liked him at that time), or Dave Owen (WHO?), and Gorman, of course, chose to let that single hitting, defensively challenged 3b go to Houston instead! According to Gammons, they asked for either Morton, Owens, or Scott Taylor, and Gorman's reply was essentially, we can't afford to trade one of out three LHSP prospects because we need to have one pan out, and they're all a bit iffy, but we can certainly give you one of our 3B prospects because we'll be left with a solid MLB starter either way. Seriously. This is like being strapped for cash, and you have sitting in your big garage three slightly aging pickups up on blocks, and a new Lexus and a new Honda Accord, and someone offers you $3K for any of the three pickups, and you say, nah, I gotta get one of those pickups running but I can't really use two sedans. Take the Lexus, I think the Accord looks better. That is the perfect analogy.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 22, 2016 22:00:01 GMT -5
No excuses made here for Gorman, but the Red Sox had a siloed organization at the time. Most of Gorman's department heads, minor league managers and scouts were holdovers from Haywood Sullivan's administration and Sullivan was still a general partner in 1990, if pushed to the sidelines by Harrington and Mrs. Yawkey. One of Gorman's only hires, Steve Schryver, who came from the Mets (like Lou), didn't fit in with the holdovers and was gone in a year or two. The Baseball America 1990 Directory does not list any "pro scouts" as part of the Red Sox' org chart -- just scouting director Eddie Kasko, advance scout Frank Malzone, and Latin American supervisor Willie Paffen. IIRC, Sam Mele was one of their Major League scouts, though he's lumped in as an area scout on their BA page. Wayne Britton was still listed as an area scout, although he was likely a crosschecker by that point. The responsibilities for pro scouting were likely mixed in with the amateur scouts, with the New Britain manager (Butch Hobson) probably also responsible for reporting on his charges. The Red Sox were also known to be extremely traditional in their minor league instruction strategy -- no field coordinators, only a roving pitching coach (Lee Stange) and batting coach (Terry Crowley). Their philosophy was "roll the ball out onto the field and let them play." To be fair to the Red Sox, though, they had excellent amateur scouts (Digby, Stephenson, Doyle, Enos, etc.) and BA's 1990 directory shows that only a few clubs had then created a professional scouting department distinct from amateur and Major League scouting corps. I knew very little of the info in this and your next post, and it's fascinating. All I knew was the quality of the player personnel moves, as seen through my before-they-called-it-sabermetrics lens. Gorman was pretty much inept at evaluating hitters, but he had an absolute gift for finding useful pitchers at rock bottom prices. Greg Harris is one that comes to mind, but I recall that every year on the roster there were a few guys who were solid and who had been obtained for little or nothing.
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