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Post by mjammz on Jul 1, 2016 10:37:49 GMT -5
As long as we're not penalized for the 2017 International Window, I'm all good. (Assuming the same system is in place).
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 1, 2016 10:40:02 GMT -5
Buster Olney @buster_ESPN Contracts of five BOS prospects voided, including including OFs Simon Muzziotti, Albert Guaimaro, P Cesar Gonzalez, INF Antonio Pinero. Passan says Eduardo Torrealba, as well.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 1, 2016 10:41:41 GMT -5
That is brutal. Given the severity of the penalties I am surprised there are not also financial penalties and suspensions of organizational personnel.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jul 1, 2016 10:41:57 GMT -5
If I'm the Red Sox, I would privately investigate every other organization on this matter. No one is clean when it comes to international signings.
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Post by jdb on Jul 1, 2016 10:42:20 GMT -5
I'm a Red Sox fan. I have no issue with this. None. While I agree since it's obvious they have proof but why was MLB so fast here but let the Cards hack into teams servers and gain a significant advantage go unpunished to date.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 1, 2016 10:45:16 GMT -5
I'm a Red Sox fan. I have no issue with this. None. While I agree since it's obvious they have proof but why was MLB so fast here but let the Cards hack into teams servers and gain a significant advantage go unpunished to date. Yeah its doubtful the Yankees would've got this type of punishment if they did the same thing. Its not a coincidence the league is based in New York and has a heavier hand with Boston.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 1, 2016 10:45:51 GMT -5
One has nothing to do with the other. I agree that STL should be penalized harshly. I also agree that this was the expected and appropriate punishment for BOS, and allows BOS to get back fully into the international market in 2017.
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Post by templeusox on Jul 1, 2016 10:47:26 GMT -5
Serves them right.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jul 1, 2016 10:49:00 GMT -5
On a more practical note, The Red Sox basically have to shut down at least one of their DSL teams next year.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 1, 2016 10:49:21 GMT -5
Four thoughts:
1) The Red Sox played with fire and got burnt. It was so clear what they were doing when they signed those guys. 2) If they followed the rules they wouldn't have been able to sign Guaimaro, etc., so losing them makes sense. 3) It will probably be a struggle for the Sox to field two DSL teams next year. 4) They should go crazy with signing a year from now if the current system is still in place.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,418
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Post by ianrs on Jul 1, 2016 10:49:36 GMT -5
Meh, just stupidity and recklessness on the Red Sox part. An embarrassment, really, given that they are toying with kids lives when they do things like this.
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Post by jmei on Jul 1, 2016 10:49:43 GMT -5
I'm a Red Sox fan. I have no issue with this. None. While I agree since it's obvious they have proof but why was MLB so fast here but let the Cards hack into teams servers and gain a significant advantage go unpunished to date. From the beginning, MLB has said that they're waiting for the criminal charges to be settled before penalizing the Cardinals organization. Sentencing in the criminal case has been pushed back but should take place sometime this summer, after which the Cardinals will get theirs.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 1, 2016 10:50:05 GMT -5
While I agree since it's obvious they have proof but why was MLB so fast here but let the Cards hack into teams servers and gain a significant advantage go unpunished to date. Yeah its doubtful the Yankees would've got this type of punishment if they did the same thing. Its not a coincidence the league is based in New York and has a heavier hand with Boston. This is an idiotic comment. The Red Sox blatently gamed the system and got caught. This isn't Deflategate, this isn't a NY vs. BOS thing. This is a team under a financial limitation that signed two top-30 internationals for short money. It looked strange when it happened, and the Red Sox were too damn obvious about it.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 1, 2016 10:54:25 GMT -5
Gee, thanks for accusing me of idiocy.
You can go on ahead believing the same exact thing would've happened with the Yanks but I won't. I'm not saying they didn't deserve to be punished but if you read the Spanish-language article, which I did, the MLB ferociously investigated this and basically interrogated the Sox prospects and treated them like they were criminals.
There is no way that would've happened with the Yankees.
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Post by jmei on Jul 1, 2016 10:55:35 GMT -5
The voiding of contracts is brutal and more than I expected.
Honest question: have other teams used this tactic to circumvent bonus restrictions? Badler et al have reported that other teams have signed "package deals" (multiple players from the same trainer), but there's a big difference between just signing another low-level guy for peanuts to appease the trainer/player (a la Jair Bogaerts or Carlos Mesa) and illicitly funneling money from one player to another to avoid bonus restrictions. I'm not aware of any other reported instances of this happening or even rumors of this happening.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 1, 2016 10:57:02 GMT -5
I think that the Red Sox got what they deserved. However, I think there is a much larger issue with respect to MLB trying to control the distribution of talent across teams. They need to have an international draft as the current system is prone to much manipulation among agents and teams. Also, the extra picks awarded in the US draft to teams such as Cards, Orioles, Royals, etc makes no sense.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 1, 2016 10:57:51 GMT -5
Yankees are expected to sign a top 30 player this year, so it will be interesting to see if there is extra scrutiny there.
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Post by jmei on Jul 1, 2016 11:00:13 GMT -5
With the increasing number of teams willing to go over the bonus pools and subject themselves to signing restrictions, MLB needed to set a strong precedent that this kind of chicanery will not be tolerated. The Red Sox are being made an example of, but they were also arrogant and/or dumb enough to put themselves out on a limb.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 1, 2016 11:01:11 GMT -5
Before accusing me of being an idiot I hope you at least either read the Spanish article or understand the content of what is in it, thanks.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jul 1, 2016 11:07:00 GMT -5
Yankees are expected to sign a top 30 player this year, so it will be interesting to see if there is extra scrutiny there. This is a good point. Maybe they don't end up signing him after all? Will be interesting to hear what the players whose contracts are voided have to say (if anything) and what the Red Sox as an organization have to say. What happens to these players now? Free agents, I assume? Would they now count towards teams caps for this signing period? Will it hurt them and their development as baseball players and/or hurt them personally as the relationships they've built (with coaches and other kids) are affected. This whole thing does scream Int'l draft.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 1, 2016 11:11:56 GMT -5
Before accusing me of being an idiot I hope you at least either read the Spanish article or understand the content of what is in it, thanks. I did and I do. I said your comment about BOS vs. NY was idiotic; I did not accuse you of being an idiot.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 1, 2016 11:24:51 GMT -5
There is a lot of teams restricted this year, wouldn't be smarter for these kids to wait a signing period? I hope to god the Sox spend thirty million next year. I mean the Sox didn't get this idea out of the thin air.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 1, 2016 11:26:24 GMT -5
So you think its totally normal to interrogate prospects that way, and it would have been handled no differently for any other team?
I'm sorry if you believe thats idiotic but I don't.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 1, 2016 11:29:57 GMT -5
There is a lot of teams restricted this year, wouldn't be smarter for these kids to wait a signing period? I hope to god the Sox spend thirty million next year. I mean the Sox didn't get this idea out of the thin air. "I hope these kids hold off on taking life-changing amounts of money for a year, risking their own livelihood and that of their families, so that my favorite team can sign them."
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Post by sittingstill on Jul 1, 2016 11:46:59 GMT -5
So you think its totally normal to interrogate prospects that way, and it would have been handled no differently for any other team? Unfortunately in a case like this, where they can assume everyone has been coached to lie, where the investigators have all the leverage, and where MLB is probably eager to respond in kind to having noses thumbed at them, I do think it's normal, if not necessarily kind, to expect that interrogation would go that way. I don't think it's GOOD, believe me. But I can't say I'm surprised, and I don't think it would have been any different for any other team. FWIW this was already being reported on in May: www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/05/12/report-mlb-threatened-prospects-like-criminals-while-investigating-red-sox/
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