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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 2, 2016 21:20:56 GMT -5
Lovullo is the manager in waiting but he's had to be at least complicit with some of these idiotic decisions.
I remember him being clearly better than Farrell when he took over last year but he would still do a dumb thing every once in a while although far less frequently than JF.
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Post by thursty on Jul 2, 2016 21:21:01 GMT -5
Mookie backing up JBJ's clown show
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Post by trotfan on Jul 2, 2016 21:23:54 GMT -5
The look on Daves face said it all ...that's a look of I have to find another manager tonight .
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Post by trotfan on Jul 2, 2016 21:26:24 GMT -5
Omg Xander !
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 2, 2016 21:26:57 GMT -5
Fenwaythehardway explained my point much more eloquently and straightforward than I did. Actually, Kimbrel does have a bit to do with Buchholz/E-Rod/Kelly/O'Sullivan/Owens/Johnson collectively stinking up the joint - because some of the resources so recklessly utilized to trade for him could have been used for a replacement starting pitcher, which this team so desperately needs on the eve of Sean O'Sullivan nightmare 2.0. I just can't agree with this. How can anyone say what those prospects would have brought? Or what replacement starting pitcher might even be successful with this organization / coaching. This team is a hot friggin mess right now. The bullpen has been, by and large, successful. And that was due in part to the Kimbrel trade. If you want to make a point that we needed better starting pitching before the year began, fine, but there weren't many posts saying that by anyone.
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Post by trotfan on Jul 2, 2016 21:29:49 GMT -5
Rally caps ......
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Post by bosox81 on Jul 2, 2016 21:31:27 GMT -5
Good game to miss. At least the top positional prospects had a banner night today.
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Post by trotfan on Jul 2, 2016 21:31:58 GMT -5
Trade for lucroy asap please and keep Swihart at catcher
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 2, 2016 21:32:42 GMT -5
Trade for lucroy asap please and keep Swihart at catcher 😐😐😐
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 2, 2016 21:34:27 GMT -5
The way that bad teams have been dominating us over the last weeks gives me pause that this team is anywhere near as good as I thought they were. I wouldn't even think about trading anything in the organization before the deadline until the team plays better than what they have shown. Prepare for a clean slate over the winter, and focus all energies on pitching.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 2, 2016 21:36:34 GMT -5
Good game to miss. At least the top positional prospects had a banner night today. I almost went to this game today but decided not to and man it was a good decision.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 2, 2016 21:43:57 GMT -5
Now we can say there is literally 0 difference between the Angels and Sox tonight. We're really going to have to re-evaluate the Sox's Pythagorean performance after tonight. Actually there's a 19 run difference between the Angels and Sox tonight. So far.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 2, 2016 21:44:34 GMT -5
no evidence that LaMarre pitched in HS. Or College.
It would be smart to keep him doing it occasionally in AAA. good arm. 78 on the TV gun. Where is Layne?
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Post by Guidas on Jul 2, 2016 21:45:50 GMT -5
Go Seattle.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 2, 2016 21:46:34 GMT -5
My money was on Brentz pitching. Ah well.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 2, 2016 21:48:14 GMT -5
What does Kimbrel have to do with Buchholz and E-Rod stinking up the joint 40% of their games? Nothing. His numbers from 2011 - 2015 were pretty damn elite. What else do you call a guy with a lifetime ERA of 1.6 over 5 seasons? We're not talking about a one year wonder. We're talking about a guy with an established track record. It's not that different from Price who had been an elite pitcher prior to coming to Boston. He, too, hasn't been exactly elite. If Price and Kimbrel were better this season, the Sox would be in better shape, but they'd still be in trouble because Buchholz and E-Rod and company can't even give the Red Sox replacement level performances in the back end of the rotation. Kimbrel certainly hasn't been elite this season. It kind of reminds me when the Sox got Lee Smith who was dominant with the Cubs, but by time he got to the Sox wasn't at his best. He'd rebound and have some great years post-Boston, but when he got to the Sox he was never quite as good as they hoped he would be. That's kind of what's going on with Kimbrel right now. Fenwaythehardway explained my point much more eloquently and straightforward than I did. Actually, Kimbrel does have a bit to do with Buchholz/E-Rod/Kelly/O'Sullivan/Owens/Johnson collectively stinking up the joint - because some of the resources so recklessly utilized to trade for him could have been used for a replacement starting pitcher, which this team so desperately needs on the eve of Sean O'Sullivan nightmare 2.0. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I saw what Shelby Miller, considered a #2/#3 before the season began, cost. Are you really telling me that if Dombrowski thought Margot/Asuaje/Guerra/Allen would get them a starter that was considered a #2/#3 type he would have passed up that deal to get Kimbrel? Sorry, but I don't buy that. If that offer had been on the table, I have little doubt Darren O'Day would be closing for the Sox right now (or maybe he would have crapped the bed closing for the first time in a big pressure market like Boston - we'll never really know.) I reiterate - if Henry Owens were a viable starting pitching prospect (his lack of velocity and command issues lower his value) and if Johnson wasn't coming off an injury, they would have had more value in a deal to get a starter. Again, a team giving up a top notch starter, is going to want a strong pitching prospect in return. That is where the Red Sox fall flat and why they can't get a top notch starter without having to give up a top talent. I'll tell you right now - they don't get a top starter (if one's available) without surrendering Kopech or more likely Espinoza. And this is because Johnson and Owens aren't viable key trade piece candidates. And while Margot could have been a piece in a starting pitcher trade, his presence wouldn't have changed that fact that the Sox lacked a viable starter to send back.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 2, 2016 21:51:53 GMT -5
Trade for lucroy asap please and keep Swihart at catcher Why, what's the point? Last I looked the Sox had bigger pitching issues than catching issues. Why waste chips on catching? Especially if Swihart should be the catcher down the road (something that I actually agree with you on).
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Post by Guidas on Jul 2, 2016 21:52:25 GMT -5
So Clay gave up 2 HRs and only 3 ERs. Heck an inning and two-thirds more and it would've been another quality start for him.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 2, 2016 21:53:47 GMT -5
Fenwaythehardway explained my point much more eloquently and straightforward than I did. Actually, Kimbrel does have a bit to do with Buchholz/E-Rod/Kelly/O'Sullivan/Owens/Johnson collectively stinking up the joint - because some of the resources so recklessly utilized to trade for him could have been used for a replacement starting pitcher, which this team so desperately needs on the eve of Sean O'Sullivan nightmare 2.0. I just can't agree with this. How can anyone say what those prospects would have brought? Or what replacement starting pitcher might even be successful with this organization / coaching. This team is a hot friggin mess right now. The bullpen has been, by and large, successful. And that was due in part to the Kimbrel trade. If you want to make a point that we needed better starting pitching before the year began, fine, but there weren't many posts saying that by anyone. Dombrowski said the cost of starting pitching during the winter was ridiculously high. That's why he signed Price and spent his chips on an established proven 27 year old closer who had a 1.64 ERA or something like that in his 5 seasons and had 3 seasons of control left.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 2, 2016 21:54:51 GMT -5
Fenwaythehardway explained my point much more eloquently and straightforward than I did. Actually, Kimbrel does have a bit to do with Buchholz/E-Rod/Kelly/O'Sullivan/Owens/Johnson collectively stinking up the joint - because some of the resources so recklessly utilized to trade for him could have been used for a replacement starting pitcher, which this team so desperately needs on the eve of Sean O'Sullivan nightmare 2.0. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I saw what Shelby Miller, considered a #2/#3 before the season began, cost. Are you really telling me that if Dombrowski thought Margot/Asuaje/Guerra/Allen would get them a starter that was considered a #2/#3 type he would have passed up that deal to get Kimbrel? Sorry, but I don't buy that. If that offer had been on the table, I have little doubt Darren O'Day would be closing for the Sox right now (or maybe he would have crapped the bed closing for the first time in a big pressure market like Boston - we'll never really know.) I reiterate - if Henry Owens were a viable starting pitching prospect (his lack of velocity and command issues lower his value) and if Johnson wasn't coming off an injury, they would have had more value in a deal to get a starter. Again, a team giving up a top notch starter, is going to want a strong pitching prospect in return. That is where the Red Sox fall flat and why they can't get a top notch starter without having to give up a top talent. I'll tell you right now - they don't get a top starter (if one's available) without surrendering Kopech or more likely Espinoza. And this is because Johnson and Owens aren't viable key trade piece candidates. And while Margot could have been a piece in a starting pitcher trade, his presence wouldn't have changed that fact that the Sox lacked a viable starter to send back. Great post. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Post by thursty on Jul 2, 2016 22:00:53 GMT -5
Reason dictates that the only thing to do with a game like this is forget it; no lessons to be drawn. But the seeds of this debacle were planted last couple of weeks; even yesterday's game - you could see it coming
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,583
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Post by radiohix on Jul 2, 2016 22:01:11 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind: The division leading Orioles have a bad (maybe even worst) starting pitching. Wilson just gave up 5 runs in 2 innings.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 2, 2016 22:01:40 GMT -5
Remember the manager and general manager and owners talked about the urgent need to get off to a good start this year? Well they did and Balt. kept pace. Now they've had about as bad a month as any AL team and show zero signs of reversing that trend. If you're John Henry and Tom Werner - and if the "win now" edict is accurate - there is either going to be some significant change very, very soon or heads are going to roll(or both).
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Post by station13 on Jul 2, 2016 22:01:46 GMT -5
FU Clay if you couldn't manage to get Farrell fired after tonight.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 2, 2016 22:02:11 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind: The division leading Orioles have a bad (maybe even worst) starting pitching. Wilson just gave up 5 runs in 2 innings. And yet they had another winning month. Odd.
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