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Post by jmei on Jul 8, 2016 11:18:41 GMT -5
The thing I love about this trade is that none of us knows what's coming. No one predicted this and it is a very intelligent deal. Let's hope he has a couple more like it in the pipeline. Actually, a bunch of us had Hill identified as a low-cost trade target for the Red Sox: forum.soxprospects.com/thread/3425/rhh-3b
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 8, 2016 11:19:31 GMT -5
The Sox turned a found good - Wilkerson - into a usable bat, a guy who can play both 2nd and 3rd and who's by no means an automatic out. Impressive, given that Wilkerson wasn't even in the system at the start of 2014. He and a lottery ticket were all it took. Good start to the 2nd half of the season!
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 8, 2016 11:26:13 GMT -5
The Sox turned a found good - Wilkerson - into a usable bat, a guy who can play both 2 nd and 3 rd and who's by no means an automatic out. Impressive, given that Wilkerson wasn't even in the system at the start of 2014. He and a lottery ticket were all it took. Good start to the 2 nd half of the season! Have to imagine the low price was mostly salary based. He is owed around $6 million and they probably took it all on.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 8, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5
You really cannot wait for the Red Sox to make a stupid trade, can you? Of course not. Deepjohn's biggest hobby is taking a "contrarian view" and explaining how stupid trades by the Red Sox were actually brilliant. The stupider the better.
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Post by ibsmith85 on Jul 8, 2016 11:53:46 GMT -5
The Sox turned a found good - Wilkerson - into a usable bat, a guy who can play both 2 nd and 3 rd and who's by no means an automatic out. Impressive, given that Wilkerson wasn't even in the system at the start of 2014. He and a lottery ticket were all it took. Good start to the 2 nd half of the season! Have to imagine the low price was mostly salary based. He is owed around $6 million and they probably took it all on. Tim Britton tweeted that the Sox actually arent paying the whole salary. Tim Britton Tweet
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 8, 2016 12:07:05 GMT -5
Have to imagine the low price was mostly salary based. He is owed around $6 million and they probably took it all on. Tim Britton tweeted that the Sox actually arent paying the whole salary. Tim Britton TweetEven better then! Probably says a bit about the perceived value of pitching talent, even if Wilkerson only has an outside shot as a bottom-of-the-rotation guy. I do think his chances may be better in the National League, but it's still a good trade in my opinion even if he does end up as a starter.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 8, 2016 12:39:51 GMT -5
The thing I love about this trade is that none of us knows what's coming. No one predicted this and it is a very intelligent deal. Let's hope he has a couple more like it in the pipeline. Actually, a bunch of us had Hill identified as a low-cost trade target for the Red Sox: forum.soxprospects.com/thread/3425/rhh-3bAnd identified Rijo as a likely prospect to be traded.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 8, 2016 12:59:38 GMT -5
And identified Rijo as a likely prospect to be traded. I bet the rest can be explained by Wilkerson winning our pitcher of the month award.
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Post by Coreno on Jul 8, 2016 13:39:13 GMT -5
Hill comes to us at nearly no cost (salary wise), if I'm not mistaken. Aside from the Brewers sending us cash, I believe Arizona is also still pitching in for part of the bill.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 8, 2016 15:25:54 GMT -5
I've never hinted they would trade him for nothing - I suggested people are overestimating the cost for acquiring him, and overestimate what the rental guys in general cost. In my eyes a move for a rental player makes much more sense at this time. The price of a trade asset is set by demand (what other GMs would be willing to trade for him), not by what he's worth to his current team. Plenty of other teams will be interested in Hill and willing to give up real assets for him since he's the best starting pitcher who is likely to be moved this summer, and the Red Sox will need to outbid those other teams. I never said anything to the contrary of that. My point was there is a pretty big difference in what Rich Hill would cost and what someone line Fernández, Cole or even Tehran would cost, which is the type of pitcher a lot of people want to acquire. I'm not sure what the issue is with people rushing to try and discredit my statement. You also have to consider a lot of teams have money issues or crappy farm systems.
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Post by sammo420 on Jul 8, 2016 15:41:21 GMT -5
Hi, Jim from Brewerfan.net. Any links to discussion of Rijo's makeup issues? Thanks! Gee, I haven't stopped by since the Brewers gave Michael Olmstead a 40-man roster spot as a minor league free agent, November 2012...hope all is well here. I did some searching and it appears this is the only thread dedicated exclusively to him. forum.soxprospects.com/thread/342/wendell-rijoyou can tinker with the search feature for more results. All I did was search for "wendell rijo" in the title. I'd at least try to excluse this thread if you search for results. Remember, some of us have thought processes that are out there.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 8, 2016 16:05:04 GMT -5
Matt Harvey's surgery just another example of the risk in dealing for pitchers. I believe the preferable approach is to hold onto the core prospects.
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Post by jmei on Jul 8, 2016 16:15:46 GMT -5
The price of a trade asset is set by demand (what other GMs would be willing to trade for him), not by what he's worth to his current team. Plenty of other teams will be interested in Hill and willing to give up real assets for him since he's the best starting pitcher who is likely to be moved this summer, and the Red Sox will need to outbid those other teams. I never said anything to the contrary of that. My point was there is a pretty big difference in what Rich Hill would cost and what someone line Fernández, Cole or even Tehran would cost, which is the type of pitcher a lot of people want to acquire. I'm not sure what the issue is with people rushing to try and discredit my statement. You also have to consider a lot of teams have money issues or crappy farm systems. Your initial statement was: "The simple fact is if the A's don't move those guys they lose them for nothing. Period. That doesn't even take into account they will be saving money by moving them." That statement implies that the As would trade him for just about anything at all, which is what I reacted to.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 8, 2016 16:32:00 GMT -5
I never said anything to the contrary of that. My point was there is a pretty big difference in what Rich Hill would cost and what someone line Fernández, Cole or even Tehran would cost, which is the type of pitcher a lot of people want to acquire. I'm not sure what the issue is with people rushing to try and discredit my statement. You also have to consider a lot of teams have money issues or crappy farm systems. Your initial statement was: "The simple fact is if the A's don't move those guys they lose them for nothing. Period. That doesn't even take into account they will be saving money by moving them." That statement implies that the As would trade him for just about anything at all, which is what I reacted to. That statement for me implies A's don't have the leverage on rental players like teams like the Braves have with Teheran so the cost should be lower. They take best offer or lose them for nothing, Braves can hold onto Teheran, so teams need to meet their asking price. Not sure how you got that means A's would trade him for just about anything.
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Post by cto94 on Jul 8, 2016 17:02:28 GMT -5
Beyond the spray chart that's already been posted, Hill has slashed .308/.349/.490 in over 200 career PA at Fenway, which fits pretty well with what I remember of him always giving us problems while with the Jays. Gotta love the deal
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 8, 2016 17:34:06 GMT -5
Your initial statement was: "The simple fact is if the A's don't move those guys they lose them for nothing. Period. That doesn't even take into account they will be saving money by moving them." That statement implies that the As would trade him for just about anything at all, which is what I reacted to. That statement for me implies A's don't have the leverage on rental players like teams like the Braves have with Teheran so the cost should be lower. They take best offer or lose them for nothing, Braves can hold onto Teheran, so teams need to meet their asking price. Not sure how you got that means A's would trade him for just about anything. Thank you. Precisely.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 8, 2016 18:18:22 GMT -5
Hi, Jim from Brewerfan.net. Any links to discussion of Rijo's makeup issues? Thanks! Gee, I haven't stopped by since the Brewers gave Michael Olmstead a 40-man roster spot as a minor league free agent, November 2012...hope all is well here. I'm trying to remember if there have ever been rumored makeup issues but can't. Drop me an email if you're thinking of anything specific you don't want to say publicly or something. Last year he was named most talkative on the Salem team or some such. I had a 20-minute-long interview with him and he was great.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jul 8, 2016 18:30:02 GMT -5
Like the trade. Now A move for a starter. The o is good enough to win. The pitching isn't.
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Post by mgoetze on Jul 9, 2016 5:12:08 GMT -5
The o is good enough to win. The pitching isn't. And that's still not how it works.
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Post by jmei on Jul 9, 2016 15:02:06 GMT -5
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 31, 2016 0:15:35 GMT -5
Hill is hitting .286 / .359 / .400 versus pitchers he has already faced in the game, in 29 PA. That's completely consistent with his career. His problem is that he's hit .138 / .206 / .155 in 63 PA facing guys the first time (including relievers). I wonder how many of those guys are guys he'd never faced. But (looking it up as I type) I don't see a big split in his numbers by times faced the pitcher in his career. And the other time he was traded from one league to the other late in the season (waiver deal from Tor to Ari in 2011), he had the opposite splits. It's either random, or he's become aware of it and it's gotten into his head -- probably the former, but you can toss a coin.
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