SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Red Sox acquire LHP Drew Pomeranz for RHP Anderson Espinoza
|
Post by grandsalami on Apr 6, 2017 18:13:43 GMT -5
“@samdykstramilb: #Padres No. 2 prospect Anderson Espinoza will start the season on the DL due to forearm tightness. Was meant to start with @storm_Baseball.”
|
|
|
Post by patford on Apr 17, 2017 8:23:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 17, 2017 8:40:15 GMT -5
Neo Pomeranz
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Apr 17, 2017 8:44:39 GMT -5
Honest question. Do people still worry about the long term effects on guys who get TJ surgery? Haven't we all seen it enough times now to know that pitchers are essentially who they are beforehand? Sure, there are disaster cases here and there - Kyle Sleeth never came back. But those aren't any more common than pitchers who don't have TJ surgery and something else goes totally wrong with them. If Espinoza got TJ surgery tomorrow my feelings on him as a prospect wouldn't change.
|
|
|
Post by patford on Apr 17, 2017 15:05:31 GMT -5
Honest question. Do people still worry about the long term effects on guys who get TJ surgery? Haven't we all seen it enough times now to know that pitchers are essentially who they are beforehand? Sure, there are disaster cases here and there - Kyle Sleeth never came back. But those aren't any more common than pitchers who don't have TJ surgery and something else goes totally wrong with them. If Espinoza got TJ surgery tomorrow my feelings on him as a prospect wouldn't change. A lot of people worry about it. See numerous comments as well as media reports on Price and Pomeranz. I agree that long term there shouldn't be much worry, but it's a lost year for the player and the team the player is signed with. Of course Espinoza is likely three or four years away from the big leagues so it's not the same thing as with Price and Pomeranz.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 17, 2017 17:02:00 GMT -5
Honest question. Do people still worry about the long term effects on guys who get TJ surgery? Haven't we all seen it enough times now to know that pitchers are essentially who they are beforehand? Sure, there are disaster cases here and there - Kyle Sleeth never came back. But those aren't any more common than pitchers who don't have TJ surgery and something else goes totally wrong with them. If Espinoza got TJ surgery tomorrow my feelings on him as a prospect wouldn't change. I worry for three reasons: first, there are still pitchers who don't come back. That's the least concern. Second, pitchers seem to be reinjuring more than ever, and one of the concerns with AE is his size. Can his body and arm handle the strain? This might be a bad sign. Third, it could be a year and a half of develpment lost. One of the things that makes AE such a stud prospect is how advanced he is. Skip forward a year, year and a half, with no development in between, and he is no longer so age advanced. It could be a mere blip, but for me, a central reason I was not mad about trading AE was that pitchers get hurt and little hard throwers get hurt more.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Apr 17, 2017 17:06:41 GMT -5
And... all else aside, I really hope AE is ok and has a great career. Sounds like this is not structural, so that is good.
|
|
|
Post by bigpupp on Apr 17, 2017 18:16:12 GMT -5
And... all else aside, I really hope AE is ok and has a great career. Sounds like this is not structural, so that is good. According to Preller it's not structural. So who knows, really.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Apr 17, 2017 18:26:54 GMT -5
And... all else aside, I really hope AE is ok and has a great career. Sounds like this is not structural, so that is good. According to Preller it's not structural. So who knows, really. That could mean he's on the trading block.
|
|
|
Post by patford on Apr 18, 2017 13:54:03 GMT -5
And... all else aside, I really hope AE is ok and has a great career. Sounds like this is not structural, so that is good. According to Preller it's not structural. So who knows, really. It's never structural until it's structural.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Apr 18, 2017 15:17:06 GMT -5
According to Preller it's not structural. So who knows, really. It's never structural until it's structural. When it's Preller, it's never structural until the Commish's office comes calling. Then it's lie, lie, until you die. I still don't like the trade, though. I hadn't mentioned that in a while and I'm clearly slipping on my repetitive grumblings.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on May 1, 2017 12:29:55 GMT -5
Shut down again
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on May 1, 2017 17:46:05 GMT -5
Honest question. Do people still worry about the long term effects on guys who get TJ surgery? Haven't we all seen it enough times now to know that pitchers are essentially who they are beforehand? Sure, there are disaster cases here and there - Kyle Sleeth never came back. But those aren't any more common than pitchers who don't have TJ surgery and something else goes totally wrong with them. If Espinoza got TJ surgery tomorrow my feelings on him as a prospect wouldn't change. I worry for three reasons: first, there are still pitchers who don't come back. That's the least concern. Second, pitchers seem to be reinjuring more than ever, and one of the concerns with AE is his size. Can his body and arm handle the strain? This might be a bad sign. Third, it could be a year and a half of develpment lost. One of the things that makes AE such a stud prospect is how advanced he is. Skip forward a year, year and a half, with no development in between, and he is no longer so age advanced. It could be a mere blip, but for me, a central reason I was not mad about trading AE was that pitchers get hurt and little hard throwers get hurt more. Absolutely.... Just with the Red Sox, Matsuzaka did not come back and Workman is several years removed from TJ throwing high 80s to very low 90s when he used to be mid 90s and a then viable relief arm. We'll see with Carson Smith and hope that we don't lose Thornburg to TJ. Smith is a year removed and has had several "setbacks"......I hope he comes back as strong with good command (always an issue) and is available in August/September...but even with a successful surgery there are numerous cases where it takes several years to make it back...Wieters and Vazquez come to mind as non-pitchers.
|
|
|
Post by patford on May 1, 2017 22:44:10 GMT -5
If Espinoza was still with the Sox and had the year he had last year, and now the injury, 98% of the people on this page would be freaking out. I know I would be. Meanwhile (knock on wood) Pomeranz has been looking very good, and better and better.
|
|
|
Post by raftsox on May 2, 2017 11:13:58 GMT -5
Honest question. Do people still worry about the long term effects on guys who get TJ surgery? Haven't we all seen it enough times now to know that pitchers are essentially who they are beforehand? Sure, there are disaster cases here and there - Kyle Sleeth never came back. But those aren't any more common than pitchers who don't have TJ surgery and something else goes totally wrong with them. If Espinoza got TJ surgery tomorrow my feelings on him as a prospect wouldn't change. There's always a worry, of course. Sometimes it's just the annoyance of a year lost, and sometimes it's the small risk of never recovering to previous levels. This is a good reference: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gQujXQQGOVNaiuwSN680Hq-FDVsCwvN-3AazykOBON0/edit#gid=2096785497The concern that I always have is with repeated TJ surgeries; there seems to be less success after a second TJ. Amongst MLB players who have had a second TJ, the average time played between surgeries is 4.35 years with a standard deviation of 3.14 years. Obviously the number of people who have actually undergone a second surgery is small compared with the total number of players who have received them. It would be interesting to calculate the odds of getting a second TJ.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 2, 2017 11:31:51 GMT -5
If Espinoza was still with the Sox and had the year he had last year, and now the injury, 98% of the people on this page would be freaking out. I know I would be. Meanwhile (knock on wood) Pomeranz has been looking very good, and better and better. He struck out 100 in 108.1 IP while walking 35 and otherwise held his own as the youngest player in Low A. He was still a consensus top 25 prospect in baseball (FG, BA, BP, Sickels, Law, MLB had him ranked between 10 and 25), and he was ranked 20th on the consensus list here www.fangraphs.com/blogs/comparing-and-contrasting-this-years-prospect-rankings/. I respectfully beg to differ on the "year he had last year" point.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 2, 2017 12:23:37 GMT -5
I'll mention that Temple did express concern with the motion. I was on the fence about it, though he did have some of the inverted W in his delivery.
Maybe that's at the root of this, maybe not. With the talent he has, I hope it's not serious. The stuff looked so good I would wish him some success.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 2, 2017 13:33:11 GMT -5
The inverted W thing has been debunked, I believe.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on May 2, 2017 13:53:27 GMT -5
On top of that, I've always thought "inverted W" is just a really pretentious way to say "M."
|
|
|
Post by patford on May 2, 2017 21:36:47 GMT -5
If Espinoza was still with the Sox and had the year he had last year, and now the injury, 98% of the people on this page would be freaking out. I know I would be. Meanwhile (knock on wood) Pomeranz has been looking very good, and better and better. He struck out 100 in 108.1 IP while walking 35 and otherwise held his own as the youngest player in Low A. He was still a consensus top 25 prospect in baseball (FG, BA, BP, Sickels, Law, MLB had him ranked between 10 and 25), and he was ranked 20th on the consensus list here www.fangraphs.com/blogs/comparing-and-contrasting-this-years-prospect-rankings/. I respectfully beg to differ on the "year he had last year" point. Those are good points, but I would say you are not the typical Sox fan. Given the glowing reports prior to the trade (he's the next Pedro kind of thing) I feel confident that the 98% would have been agonizing that Espinoza was the next Trey Ball.
|
|
|
Post by patford on May 2, 2017 21:41:12 GMT -5
I'll mention that Temple did express concern with the motion. I was on the fence about it, though he did have some of the inverted W in his delivery. Maybe that's at the root of this, maybe not. With the talent he has, I hope it's not serious. The stuff looked so good I would wish him some success. He seems young to be having a building history of arm problems. This dates to a stress fracture in his pitching elbow back when he was signed. It's elbow, forearm (i.e. probably elbow), elbow.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 3, 2017 0:08:02 GMT -5
The inverted W thing has been debunked, I believe. That's why I was on the fence about it. It's anecdotal with no data to back it up. He has so much talent, I just hope they take care of him if it is a chronic elbow.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 14, 2017 14:49:41 GMT -5
So Pomeranz had a Biceps tightness in spring training and now triceps tightness today and his velocity has considerably dropped from his first start of the season.
This is the Sox disguising the fact that the ligament is compromised. There's just no doubt about it now.
|
|
|
Post by bigpupp on May 14, 2017 14:53:33 GMT -5
So Pomeranz had a Biceps tightness in spring training and now triceps tightness today and his velocity has considerably dropped from his first start of the season. This is the Sox disguising the fact that the ligament is compromised. There's just no doubt about it now. Pomeranz has had a team disguise the fact that he was hurt before. But it wasn't the Sox.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 14, 2017 15:11:14 GMT -5
So Pomeranz had a Biceps tightness in spring training and now triceps tightness today and his velocity has considerably dropped from his first start of the season. This is the Sox disguising the fact that the ligament is compromised. There's just no doubt about it now. Pomeranz has had a team disguise the fact that he was hurt before. But it wasn't the Sox. Yeah Preller, f-ing Preller. Dude should be run out of baseball.
|
|
|