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Whither a Mookie Extension
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2018 19:31:59 GMT -5
I can think of more than one thing that happened in 2017 that might make Mookie Betts want out of Boston. That stuff could happen anywhere though.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 31, 2018 20:52:50 GMT -5
I can think of more than one thing that happened in 2017 that might make Mookie Betts want out of Boston. What happened in 2017 that was so bad though? Ask Adam Jones.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Feb 1, 2018 2:43:54 GMT -5
Granted have not been to Boston area since September of 1978. Issue I have, as only a reader since is how accurate are the numbers of these nutjobs still there acting out like this percentage wise and how much of this is nothing but a typical Boston media doing it's standard hack reporting of blowing up a small handful into what seems like many?
My point is there are always going to be idiots everywhere of all races, just like there are thieves, criminals etc.. What good can come out of giving those losers print space? It's like those people that used to streak accross the field naked just to get onto camera and they used to show them from the backside back in the day.. Stop giving them air time (they did) and it went away. same may to some extent of these vile racists, both in ballgames and other areas of life last few years from all sides.
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Post by MLBDreams on Feb 1, 2018 13:30:50 GMT -5
Has the Sox even tried to sign anyone on their roster besides Mookie Betts to a team friendly deal that works for both sides? It won't happen that way. He'll follow Jacoby Ellsbury same way by taking maximum 1st thru 3rd yr of arb money and leaves Boston for his likely preference destinations: NY Yankees (always hand out largest contract) or STL (nearby his home state TN). Mookie didn't really loves Boston (look at his face expressions) and wanted to stay there in rest of career like Dustin Pedroia did. He never say that words. My best bet is Benny that he would take team friendly contract in the future if he loves Boston so much and posting a good career numbers at the Fenway.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Feb 1, 2018 13:45:26 GMT -5
Has the Sox even tried to sign anyone on their roster besides Mookie Betts to a team friendly deal that works for both sides? It won't happen that way. He'll follow Jacoby Ellsbury same way by taking maximum 1st thru 3rd yr of arb money and leaves Boston for his likely preference destinations: NY Yankees (always hand out largest contract) or STL (nearby his home state TN). Mookie didn't really loves Boston (look at his face expressions) and wanted to stay there in rest of career like Dustin Pedroia did. He never say that words. My best bet is Benny that he would take team friendly contract in the future if he loves Boston so much and posting a good career numbers at the Fenway. No offense but everything you are saying is pure conjecture, there is no possible way you can know Mookie prefers to go to NYY or STL or anywhere else for that matter. Based off of your logic Kris Bryant must want to leave the Cubs too and the same with any superstar player that goes through the entire arbitration process year to year. Mookie might leave when he is free agency eligible or he might not, until we see what happens three years from now I don't understand why anybody would try to predict what he is going to do.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 1, 2018 13:47:44 GMT -5
I know what people think about life from looking at their face, don't you?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 1, 2018 14:05:53 GMT -5
It won't happen that way. He'll follow Jacoby Ellsbury same way by taking maximum 1st thru 3rd yr of arb money and leaves Boston for his likely preference destinations: NY Yankees (always hand out largest contract) or STL (nearby his home state TN). Mookie didn't really loves Boston (look at his face expressions) and wanted to stay there in rest of career like Dustin Pedroia did. He never say that words. My best bet is Benny that he would take team friendly contract in the future if he loves Boston so much and posting a good career numbers at the Fenway. No offense but everything you are saying is pure conjecture, there is no possible way you can know Mookie prefers to go to NYY or STL or anywhere else for that matter. Based off of your logic Kris Bryant must want to leave the Cubs too and the same with any superstar player that goes through the entire arbitration process year to year. Mookie might leave when he is free agency eligible or he might not, until we see what happens three years from now I don't understand why anybody would try to predict what he is going to do. I mean, if Betts really wanted to stay here, something would have been worked out already. At a minimum, he's keeping his options open, so it's reasonable to assume he's not fully in love with playing in Boston. And why would he want to stay? I've mentioned any number of times, but most of the storylines associated with the 2017 Boston Red Sox weren't positive ones. The season was characterized by petty squabbling and uglier stuff than that. We can only speculate about the mood in the clubhouse, but they let Farrell go for some reason and it wasn't because they won 93 games and finished first in the division.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Feb 1, 2018 14:26:54 GMT -5
No offense but everything you are saying is pure conjecture, there is no possible way you can know Mookie prefers to go to NYY or STL or anywhere else for that matter. Based off of your logic Kris Bryant must want to leave the Cubs too and the same with any superstar player that goes through the entire arbitration process year to year. Mookie might leave when he is free agency eligible or he might not, until we see what happens three years from now I don't understand why anybody would try to predict what he is going to do. I mean, if Betts really wanted to stay here, something would have been worked out already. At a minimum, he's keeping his options open, so it's reasonable to assume he's not fully in love with playing in Boston. And why would he want to stay? I've mentioned any number of times, but most of the storylines associated with the 2017 Boston Red Sox weren't positive ones. The season was characterized by petty squabbling and uglier stuff than that. We can only speculate about the mood in the clubhouse, but they let Farrell go for some reason and it wasn't because they won 93 games and finished first in the division. Why wouldn't he want to keep his options open? He is 25 years old, maybe he wants to wait and see how the team will look when he gets closer to free agency. Maybe you are right maybe you are wrong but to me it is ridiculous to sit here and say Mookie is going to leave to Red Sox no matter what when he can. It isn't uncommon for young players at or near elite ability to ride out arbitration and end up re-signing with the team in the end. I would love for Mookie to sign an extension now as he is quickly moving up my rankings of favorite Sox ever but I'm not going to say he must hate Boston for not signing an extension.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 1, 2018 15:20:57 GMT -5
Betts not working out a deal only means that he does not want to sacrifice his earning potential in exchange for more certainty. That's literally all it means. It says nothing about whether he wants to stay in Boston. The largest extension for a player in the 3+ years of service time class (first year of arb, not a Super 2), per MLBTR ( Link) is the deal Freddie Freeman signed in 2014 for 8/135. The first year of that deal paid him $5.125M. In fact, the second year was for $8.5M. Betts has already nearly doubled Freeman's first year and topped his second year. That said, Buster Posey signed a bigger deal as a Super 2, for 9/167 (and a full no-trade) in 2013. It's a bit strange in that it paid him $3M the first year even though he'd agreed to a one-year, $8M deal to avoid arbitration already, but from there went $10.5M, $16.5M, and into the 20s. At any rate, while year one is a weird comparison because Posey's salary was so low, Betts is already at what Posey was getting in year two. Trout was actually not even arbitration-eligible yet when he signed his deal, actually ( Link), but it started the following season. That 2015 deal, for 6/144.5, paid Trout $5.25M, $15.25M, and $19.25M in his arbitration seasons. Again, Betts is making out like a bandit compared to the best player of our generation. Financially, Betts made a... wager on his earning potential, and it's paying off. At this point, an extension is going to have to look something like $16M/$22M/$30... for a number of seasons to even make him think about it. Something like 5/130 or 6/160. And it might take more. In a different world, they could also ask to tear up the arbitration award and include a salary of like $9M for this season to bring the AAV down over the term of the contract, but that would keep them from signing Martinez this year by adding another $13M or so to this year's cap hit for him. Honestly, and I hate to say this... the arbitration award really hurt the chances for a Betts extension, the more I look at this.
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Post by mredsox89 on Feb 1, 2018 16:04:28 GMT -5
Betts not working out a deal only means that he does not want to sacrifice his earning potential in exchange for more certainty. That's literally all it means. It says nothing about whether he wants to stay in Boston. The largest extension for a player in the 3+ years of service time class (first year of arb, not a Super 2), per MLBTR ( Link) is the deal Freddie Freeman signed in 2014 for 8/135. The first year of that deal paid him $5.125M. In fact, the second year was for $8.5M. Betts has already nearly doubled Freeman's first year and topped his second year. That said, Buster Posey signed a bigger deal as a Super 2, for 9/167 (and a full no-trade) in 2013. It's a bit strange in that it paid him $3M the first year even though he'd agreed to a one-year, $8M deal to avoid arbitration already, but from there went $10.5M, $16.5M, and into the 20s. At any rate, while year one is a weird comparison because Posey's salary was so low, Betts is already at what Posey was getting in year two. Trout was actually not even arbitration-eligible yet when he signed his deal, actually ( Link), but it started the following season. That 2015 deal, for 6/144.5, paid Trout $5.25M, $15.25M, and $19.25M in his arbitration seasons. Again, Betts is making out like a bandit compared to the best player of our generation. Financially, Betts made a... wager on his earning potential, and it's paying off. At this point, an extension is going to have to look something like $16M/$22M/$30... for a number of seasons to even make him think about it. Something like 5/130 or 6/160. And it might take more. In a different world, they could also ask to tear up the arbitration award and include a salary of like $9M for this season to bring the AAV down over the term of the contract, but that would keep them from signing Martinez this year by adding another $13M or so to this year's cap hit for him. Honestly, and I hate to say this... the arbitration award really hurt the chances for a Betts extension, the more I look at this. I think it destroys just about any chance of any kind of extension before he hits FA, though you could easily convince me that there was already zero chance of that happening. I'm not sure this changes all that much in terms of what the Sox will offer him going into FA or going into his final year of arbitration.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 2, 2018 10:42:28 GMT -5
All I can really say is that under Theo, this team signed nearly every good young player it came up with to a friendly extension, and in the post-Theo world, they’ve signed none of them. I don’t know exactly what to make of that but it’s hard to see it as a positive development in any way.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 2, 2018 11:09:15 GMT -5
All I can really say is that under Theo, this team signed nearly every good young player it came up with to a friendly extension, and in the post-Theo world, they’ve signed none of them. I don’t know exactly what to make of that but it’s hard to see it as a positive development in any way. And that also seems to be the case just about everywhere in baseball now.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 2, 2018 12:10:21 GMT -5
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Post by mredsox89 on Feb 2, 2018 13:19:31 GMT -5
Was Bryant's record breaking arbitration # allowed to be used in the Mookie case? I feel like I saw somewhere that it wasn't, but I could be mistaken.
I'm still fairly surprised the arbitrator went with Mookie, if only because precedent, which is almost entirely what arbitration is based off of, hadn't given anyone that much money before this year
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 2, 2018 14:07:37 GMT -5
I think it was available reading this? www.mlbplayers.com/pdf9/5450407.pdf(10) Criteria (a) The criteria will be the quality of the Player’s contribution to his Club during the past season (including but not limited to his overall performance, special qualities of leadership and public appeal), the length and consistency of his career contribution, the record of the Player’s past compensation, comparative baseball salaries (see paragraph (11) below for confidential salary data), the existence of any physical or mental defects on the part of the Player, and the recent performance record of the Club including but not limited to its League standing and attendance as an indication of public acceptance (subject to the exclusion stated in subparagraph (b)(i) below). Except as set forth in subsections 10(b) and 10(c) below, any evidence may be submitted which is relevant to the above criteria, and the arbitration panel shall assign such weight to the evidence as shall appear appropriate under the circumstances. The arbitration panel shall, except for a Player with five or more years of Major League service, give particular attention, for comparative salary purposes, to the contracts of Players with Major League service not exceeding one annual service group above the Player’s annual service group. This shall not limit the ability of a Player or his representative, because of special accomplishment, to argue the equal relevance of salaries of Players without regard to service, and the arbitration panel shall give whatever weight to such argument as is deemed appropriate.(b) Evidence of the following shall not be admissible: (i) The financial position of the Player and the Club; (ii) Press comments, testimonials or similar material bearing on the performance of either the Player or the Club, except that recognized annual Player awards for playing excellence shall not be excluded; (iii) Offers made by either Player or Club prior to arbitration; (iv) The cost to the parties of their representatives, attorneys, etc.; (v) Salaries in other sports or occupations. (c) Admissible Statistics. Only publicly available statistics shall be admissible. For purposes of this provision, publicly available statistics shall include data available through subscription-only websites (e.g., Baseball Prospectus). Statistics and data generated through the use of performance technology, wearable technology, or “STATCAST”, whether publicly available or not, shall not be admissible. (11) Confidential Major League Salary Data. For its confidential use, as background information, the arbitration panel will be given a tabulation showing the minimum salary in the Major Leagues and salaries for the preceding season of all players on Major League rosters as of August 31, broken down by years of Major League service. The names and Clubs of the Players concerned will appear on the tabulation. In utilizing the salary tabulation, the arbitration panel shall consider the salaries of all comparable Players and not merely the salary of a single Player or group of Players. (12) Prohibition Regarding Competitive Balance Tax. No participant in a salary arbitration shall refer in any fashion, either orally or in writing, to any of the provisions in Article XXIII (Competitive Balance Tax). No salary arbitration panel shall consider in any fashion any of the provisions in Article XXIII (Competitive Balance Tax).
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Post by GyIantosca on Feb 3, 2018 9:18:32 GMT -5
As free agency approaches for Mookiethe Sox have to make a decision either blow him away with a excellent extension or make him available a year before ,Finally just roll the dice. At least they changed managers. I believe this will help the young kids , I have no proof but gut feeling that the Bradley’s, Xander’s , etc will not miss Farrell. If Mookie wants to make it to free agency the Sox have to make a decision but if they make him available then that’s where they get a couple of blue chippers back.
I find it funny the Sox are in a transition in the prospects department but how many teams graduated this many prospects? Those lists are funny who pans out and such. I mean Houston did good recently but it took them many ,many years to get to this level. Again fro some reason when the Yankees get a prospect they get overrated with these publications. Montero anybody ,he was the top prospect for like three years in a row. One thing about the Sox I feel we will have a rebirth of pitching prospects when all is said and done. Just ranting.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 3, 2018 9:58:52 GMT -5
If the Yankees or one of the other top $$ teams like the Red Sox sign Machado or Harper when they become FAs next year doesn't that impede their ability to sign Mookie to a big deal not soon after? Obviously it does so why is their so much doom and gloom about signing Mookie when he becomes a FA? It's not like the Sox are the KC Royals, they have the resources.
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Post by jmei on Feb 3, 2018 9:59:53 GMT -5
All I can really say is that under Theo, this team signed nearly every good young player it came up with to a friendly extension, and in the post-Theo world, they’ve signed none of them. I don’t know exactly what to make of that but it’s hard to see it as a positive development in any way. And that also seems to be the case just about everywhere in baseball now. Yeah, I think the short answer is that agents and players were more risk-adverse back then.
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giltg
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Post by giltg on Feb 7, 2018 21:48:38 GMT -5
After watching how the World Series Champion Houston Astros handled there World Series MVP outfielder George Springer's arbitration case by signing him to a two-year 24 million dollar extension avoiding 2 years of arbitration. Springer and Mookie are identical in arbitration years with their last arbitration year coming in 2020. Could Sox handled Mookie's case a little bit better? IMO yes. Unless they're looking to do a contract extension with Benintendi and Devers,non Boras clients. If the Sox don't right the financial ship soon they'll have more problems when these players reach their arbitration years.
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 15, 2018 9:23:29 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 15, 2018 9:47:35 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 15, 2018 10:58:37 GMT -5
Is it really that impossible to both want to maximize your earnings by going year-to-year and enjoy where you work?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 15, 2018 11:18:56 GMT -5
You think the same exact thing about every other great young player that hasn't signed an extension with any team or are you just over the top negative about it? I personally don't go looking for trouble and trying to figure out what people are thinking and instead just listen to what they say because that's the only thing you know actually happened.
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Post by dirtdog on Feb 17, 2018 0:23:28 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 17, 2018 9:08:03 GMT -5
I’m a little surprised Mookie and the Sox haven’t come to terms at all even on a shorter deal that only buys out one free agent year. Sox get some cost certainty and an extra year and Mookie sets himself for life and still hits free agency ridiculously young. It seems to be in everyone’s best interest when looked at just for Mookies situation but I bet over all teams and agents want to hit home runs in these types of deals so Mookies best interest doesn’t really much matter.
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