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Post by grandsalami on Sept 3, 2016 18:27:38 GMT -5
“@mikesilvermanbb: Wright can’t say if he’ll pitch again this season. His shoulder at 50% now. Seeing specialist in LA next week.”
“@bradfo: Steven Wright will not start Tuesday. Will be getting second opinion on shoulder. Farrell said everything points to Buchholz making start”
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Sept 3, 2016 18:48:59 GMT -5
I thought knuckleballers didn't have arm trouble, or is this the result of his pinch-running?
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 3, 2016 19:18:20 GMT -5
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 3, 2016 19:27:45 GMT -5
ugh
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Post by libertine on Sept 3, 2016 19:34:56 GMT -5
In terms of injuries this Red Sox season is a baseball equivalent of a Shakespearean tragedy.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Sept 3, 2016 20:16:41 GMT -5
And so the saga of Clay Buchholz's season continues. Maybe he ought to start throwing a knuckleball, if they are going to treat him like Tim Wakefield.
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Post by bsout2 on Sept 3, 2016 21:45:41 GMT -5
“@mikesilvermanbb: Wright can’t say if he’ll pitch again this season. His shoulder at 50% now. Seeing specialist in LA next week.” “@bradfo: Steven Wright will not start Tuesday. Will be getting second opinion on shoulder. Farrell said everything points to Buchholz making start” This entire story is not getting enough attention. Wright was one the top 5 starters in MLB during the first half of year.
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Post by larrycook on Sept 3, 2016 21:57:14 GMT -5
And where are the Red Sox medical personnel while wright is going through this?
We sent him out there twice and they don't know his shoulder is not 100%.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 3, 2016 22:17:19 GMT -5
Not to start up the "Let's fire Farrell stuff" all over again, but what happened with Wright should be an automatic fire-able offense. What a stupid injury and circumstance for it to happen in. Farrell should never have put him in to PR for Ortiz.
Now that means that E-Rod most likely gets the nod for #4 starter, which kind of weakens the weak bullpen in the post-season. It looked like that both Buchholz and E-Rod would be in the pen, and now only one of them is likely to, while the other one starts and the rotation is weaker as innings eater Wright is probably out for the season. Just so dumb.
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Post by adamoraz on Sept 3, 2016 22:41:15 GMT -5
Aarghh National League baseball. This is very bad news. Here's hoping he makes a strong recovery, even if he doesn't return until next year. Now I really hope Erod's hamstring is fully healed.
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 3, 2016 23:27:09 GMT -5
Not to start up the "Let's fire Farrell stuff" all over again, but what happened with Wright should be an automatic fire-able offense. What a stupid injury and circumstance for it to happen in. Farrell should never have put him in to PR for Ortiz. Now that means that E-Rod most likely gets the nod for #4 starter, which kind of weakens the weak bullpen in the post-season. It looked like that both Buchholz and E-Rod would be in the pen, and now only one of them is likely to, while the other one starts and the rotation is weaker as innings eater Wright is probably out for the season. Just so dumb. No.. This is not on Farrell... Wright would have run the bases in the playoffs. Pitchers run the bases frequently in interleague.
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Post by pedey on Sept 3, 2016 23:30:17 GMT -5
Not to start up the "Let's fire Farrell stuff" all over again, but what happened with Wright should be an automatic fire-able offense. What a stupid injury and circumstance for it to happen in. Farrell should never have put him in to PR for Ortiz. Now that means that E-Rod most likely gets the nod for #4 starter, which kind of weakens the weak bullpen in the post-season. It looked like that both Buchholz and E-Rod would be in the pen, and now only one of them is likely to, while the other one starts and the rotation is weaker as innings eater Wright is probably out for the season. Just so dumb. Sorry, but you started it. Farrell should be fired. Using your ace to pinch run may be the stupidest decision I've ever seen. I was looking forward to a Porcello, Price, Wright trio in October. Thanks JF. He never fails to disappoint me. I wonder how many games the Sox would be ahead of Toronto if Lovullo was the skipper. As a side note, isn't it funny that Buchholz manages to pitch JUST well enough and throws JUST enough innings year after year for his option to keep getting picked up every year? Then he struggles for the first 5 months of the season again...
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Post by pedey on Sept 3, 2016 23:41:00 GMT -5
Not to start up the "Let's fire Farrell stuff" all over again, but what happened with Wright should be an automatic fire-able offense. What a stupid injury and circumstance for it to happen in. Farrell should never have put him in to PR for Ortiz. Now that means that E-Rod most likely gets the nod for #4 starter, which kind of weakens the weak bullpen in the post-season. It looked like that both Buchholz and E-Rod would be in the pen, and now only one of them is likely to, while the other one starts and the rotation is weaker as innings eater Wright is probably out for the season. Just so dumb. No.. This is not on Farrell... Wright would have run the bases in the playoffs. Pitchers run the bases frequently in interleague. I beg to differ. Wright wouldn't have pinch ran and injured his shoulder had JF not used him as a pinch runner. Pitchers run the bases in interleague games because they HAVE to. Sure, maybe Wright would have injured his shoulder in the World Series running the bases. At least he was able to give 100% up until then. Is the front office obvious to Farrel's constant managing blunders? Its not rocket science.
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Post by Don Caballero on Sept 4, 2016 1:09:14 GMT -5
What was the reasoning at the time for Wright running the bases? I honestly don't even remember the play happening.
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Post by scarr0214 on Sept 4, 2016 3:09:55 GMT -5
What was the reasoning at the time for Wright running the bases? I honestly don't even remember the play happening. It was senseless. Yes a runner was useful, but they had Pomerantz on the bench who is in much better shape and has run the bases far more than Wright.
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Post by sibbysisti on Sept 4, 2016 6:32:48 GMT -5
What was the reasoning at the time for Wright running the bases? I honestly don't even remember the play happening. Sox were trailing late at the time but had a chance to tie the game and send it to extra innings. Rather than waste a position player who could be of use later in the game, he elected to send in a pitcher to pinch run. Teams do it all the time. Just bad luck.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 4, 2016 6:51:56 GMT -5
What was the reasoning at the time for Wright running the bases? I honestly don't even remember the play happening. Sox were trailing late at the time but had a chance to tie the game and send it to extra innings. Rather than waste a position player who could be of use later in the game, he elected to send in a pitcher to pinch run. Teams do it all the time. Just bad luck. Teams generally do not send their best starting pitcher (which Wright was at the time) to pinch run. It's was a stupid risky move. Just because historically managers sometimes use starting pitchers as pinch runners does not make it a smart move. Pitchers, especially AL pitchers, are not used to base running. Diving into bases is a skill, which while not requiring tons of practice, does require some practice. Yes, Wright could have been injured running the bases when he was pitching, but you want to limit the number of times you expose him to the risk.
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Post by terriblehondo on Sept 4, 2016 6:53:25 GMT -5
$hit happens. Players get hurt in every different way. Just hope they get better and move on.
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Post by bluechip on Sept 4, 2016 7:02:46 GMT -5
$hit happens. Players get hurt in every different way. Just hope they get better and move on. But part of the job of the manager is to limit that risk. That is why athletes have, for instance, clauses in their contracts allowing teams to void the contract for injuries sustained playing other sports. The Patriots don't want Tom Brady injuring his knee trying to dunk.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 4, 2016 7:47:03 GMT -5
Not to start up the "Let's fire Farrell stuff" all over again, but what happened with Wright should be an automatic fire-able offense. What a stupid injury and circumstance for it to happen in. Farrell should never have put him in to PR for Ortiz. Now that means that E-Rod most likely gets the nod for #4 starter, which kind of weakens the weak bullpen in the post-season. It looked like that both Buchholz and E-Rod would be in the pen, and now only one of them is likely to, while the other one starts and the rotation is weaker as innings eater Wright is probably out for the season. Just so dumb. No.. This is not on Farrell... Wright would have run the bases in the playoffs. Pitchers run the bases frequently in interleague. And if Wright did get injured in a playoff game which would be the World Series, then fine. No problem with Farrell there. In that situation Wright would have HAD to run the bases. That wasn't the case in the game he was injured. You don't take one of your best pitchers with very little experience running the bases and expose him to the possibility of injury, which is more likely to happen when he's not used to it.
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Post by jmei on Sept 4, 2016 8:12:47 GMT -5
Even if they needed a pitcher to pinch-run, Wright was the worst choice among the starting pitchers. He's the oldest and least athletic of them, has had the least experience as a pinch-runner (as far as I can tell, he's never been on base as a professional baseball player and has six career PAs as a hitter), and, at the time, was their best starting pitcher.
Even after Wright got hurt, Farrell was unable to articulate much of a rationale for why Wright pinch-ran rather than Pomeranz:
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Post by jmei on Sept 4, 2016 8:22:52 GMT -5
By the way, I would have said the same thing at the time. I agree that hurting a shoulder diving back into a bag is a very unlikely injury risk, but it is nonetheless a foreseeable risk of using an inexperienced, unathletic starting pitcher as a pinch-runner. There are other injury risks associated with doing so-- pulling a hamstring, spraining an ankle, etc.-- and given those risks, it was a bad decision to use Wright there. Farrell was unlucky that one of the risks involved actually materialized, but it was still a bad decision in the first instance.
It's like not wearing a seatbelt. Odds are, the vast majority of the time that you don't do so, nothing bad will happen. But it's still a bad decision, and, if you're unlucky, can have disastrous consequences.
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Post by Alonzo on Sept 4, 2016 8:49:30 GMT -5
I swear that the moment I saw Wright standing on the basepath I immediately thought: "this isn't going to end well". This isn't some kind of hindsight stuff, you don't do that as a manager. Especially our best weapon at that time and least experienced pitcher. Pomeranz would have made so much more sense...but even that wouldn't have been a wise decision.
Point is, it feels like everything Farrell is doing comes back to haunt him. This has all the makings of a season ending injury. Eduardo and/or CLay better step up. They just might get lucky with Clay back in the rotation and Kelly/Koji in SU-role.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 4, 2016 9:14:42 GMT -5
And where are the Red Sox medical personnel while wright is going through this? We sent him out there twice and they don't know his shoulder is not 100%. If Wright wanted to try to pitch through a shoulder that the medical staff knew wasn't 100%, it's not like anyone outside the Red Sox organization would have been told that.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Sept 4, 2016 9:24:42 GMT -5
$hit happens. Players get hurt in every different way. Just hope they get better and move on. But part of the job of the manager is to limit that risk. That is why athletes have, for instance, clauses in their contracts allowing teams to void the contract for injuries sustained playing other sports. The Patriots don't want Tom Brady injuring his knee trying to dunk. If using your best pitcher as a pinch runner is an acceptable risk, I feel like we should see more catchers getting pinch hit for late in games, five out saves, etc. I'd be more willing to shrug the Wright injury off as "stuff happens" if MLB managers weren't so ridiculously conservative in every other phase of the game. If you're going to make one unconventional move in the whole season, maybe don't go with the one where the downside is your best pitcher is done for the year.
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