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2016-2017 Red Sox Offseason (Non-Manager) Discussion
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Post by rookie13 on Nov 7, 2016 17:12:09 GMT -5
Getting tied into a 5/$110M deal or thereabouts for Encarnacion will just be one of the stupidest, most short-sighted moves they could make. If anything, they can sign a huge bullpen arm for roughly half of that, over 4 years, and still have money to spend to get a very good one-year DH option like Beltran. With Benintendi around for the full year, the offense probably wouldn't lose a beat in that scenario, and the bullpen would be much better. Not to mention, an elite bullpen arm has more value in trade than a bloated Encarnacion contract, and would be much more readily moved at just about any point. And, that elite 'pen arm is probably more valuable in the playoffs too, which the Sox will almost assuredly make. The difference in production between Beltran and Encarnacion is absolutely NOT worth nearly $100M over four years, especially when they still probably have the league's best offense anyway. Totally agree with this. I don't think the Sox will pony up the money to get a Chapman/Jansen, but I agree that signing EE would be an extremely short sighted move. Even without Papi, they still have one of the best offenses in the league, and it will only get better with Beni for the full year and Moncada at some point. Signing EE isn't worth it for the Sox.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 7, 2016 17:13:11 GMT -5
It feels like a lot of people are really underestimating the type of money Chapman and Jansen will command this offseason. They are going to destroy Papelbon's record contract. It's going to be so bad. I want absolutely nothing to do with either of those guys.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 7, 2016 17:24:06 GMT -5
There are definitely better ways to spend money. The team should focus on clearing their books of some of the bad contracts they are already holding before they take on more of that... flavor. The difference in pay scale for relievers perceived as the best closers™ and those who don't have that buzz is much greater than the actual difference in talent. Paying an absurd premium for that marginal value-added seems very foolish.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 7, 2016 18:32:27 GMT -5
It feels like a lot of people are really underestimating the type of money Chapman and Jansen will command this offseason. They are going to destroy Papelbon's record contract. I said this about Chapman and people here disagreed with me about it. They convinced themselves that Chapman will get as much years and less money for some reason. You're not saving a nickel when it comes to EE versus Chapman.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 7, 2016 19:15:09 GMT -5
I don't think we have the same definition of a "power bat". We don't really have legit power bats unless we use Mookie and Hanley. I'd like to replace Papi's production. EE will give about that much. I don't want to give him a big contract but let's be realistic of what he'll get. Not saying we have to have him but I think it's needed on this team. Beltran doesn't bring more than 20+ and he's about, oh, 40yo. I'd take him though if EE bidding gets outrageous. He's a decent bat so no biggie if we give him a one year deal. I agreed with you right until you said Beltran. For me it's EE or bust. Meaning, it's either they sign EE or fill in eternally. I feel like Sam Travis could carry close to the same production as most of these DH options out there for a 1/10 of the cost in a full season at Fenway. The only guy could of been considered on a one year deal and would of been nice is Bautista but he's going to get multiple years.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 7, 2016 20:06:44 GMT -5
Could sign Turner. Yes, it would cost a draft pick, but he mashes RHP and if Moncada/Devers forces him out, he's still only 31 and could fetch at least the value of a 1st round pick in trade.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 7, 2016 20:09:35 GMT -5
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 46m46 minutes ago Blake Swihart has been told by the Red Sox to report to spring training as a catcher, Dombrowski said.
Tim Britton @timbritton 46m46 minutes ago Dombrowski: "We're not looking for a starting pitcher." Alex Speier @alexspeier 45m45 minutes ago Dombrowski says Sox have a number of young players coming (Travis, Moncada, Devers), seems disinclined to sign long-term deal for DH type
Michael Silverman @mikesilvermanbb 45m45 minutes ago Dombro: May take awhile to figure out if Red Sox will find a new DH internally or externally. Unfinished CBA could be factor.
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 45m45 minutes ago Dombrowski said he anticipates the Red Sox being much more patient this offseason. Said it's hard to make moves without knowing CBA results
Alex Speier @alexspeier 45m45 minutes ago Dombrowski said that Sox were never close to a deal with White Sox at trade deadline.
Tim Britton @timbritton 45m45 minutes ago Dombrowski said he envisions Moncada starting the year in the minors. Kopech is slated to start at Double-A.
Michael Silverman @mikesilvermanbb 45m45 minutes ago Dombro: Leon the catcher next year. Vazquez logical backup.
Tim Britton @timbritton 44m44 minutes ago Boston's top priority? Someone to pitch the eighth inning. Probably just one addition to the pen, Dombrowski said.
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 43m43 minutes ago Starting rotation is not a target area for Red Sox, DD said. "I would be surprised" if Sox were in conversations for an ace type of SP
Tim Britton @timbritton 43m43 minutes ago Obstacle in signing someone like Encarnacion: How long do you want someone there? Dombrowski asked. Have young hitters coming
Michael Silverman @mikesilvermanbb 43m43 minutes ago Dombro: Moncada may play himself into big-league 3B mix next year but most likely targeted for minors.
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 41m41 minutes ago Dombrowski said he believes Jason Varitek prefers his current role with the Red Sox, does not believe he wants to join field staff.
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 29m29 minutes ago Big thing to note when DD talked about finding DH: He prefers one-year stop-game with youth (Travis, Devers, etc.) coming, nothing long-term
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 29m29 minutes ago That's where having Ramirez/Sandoval on the roster impacts things. One of them may end up having to DH before contracts are up.
Jason Mastrodonato @jmastrodonato 27m27 minutes ago To me, sounds like trading for one-year guy (JD Martinez?) or signing one-year guy (Beltran?) most likely unless they fill DH internally
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 7, 2016 20:31:53 GMT -5
JD Martinez is interesting. Last year was no fluke in the field. He's not an outfielder anymore. He should be a 1st baseman. With one year left on his deal, how much is he worth?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 7, 2016 20:42:08 GMT -5
JD Martinez is interesting. Last year was no fluke in the field. He's not an outfielder anymore. He should be a 1st baseman. With one year left on his deal, how much is he worth? Has J.D. Martinez ever played 1B? He would probably be the most intriguing option on a one year deal if he could play the position better than Hanley. What do you give up? Maricio Dubon seems like a logical trade candidate if the Tigers want to unload Kinsler.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 7, 2016 21:06:42 GMT -5
JD Martinez is interesting. Last year was no fluke in the field. He's not an outfielder anymore. He should be a 1st baseman. With one year left on his deal, how much is he worth? Has J.D. Martinez ever played 1B? He would probably be the most intriguing option on a one year deal if he could play the position better than Hanley. What do you give up? Maricio Dubon seems like a logical trade candidate if the Tigers want to unload Kinsler. I think they'll hold onto Kinsler, but looking at today's market I would not be surprised if Swihart was brought up, granted we'd have to be confident we can extend Martinez.
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Post by rookie13 on Nov 7, 2016 21:06:48 GMT -5
I think Martinez could be a good fit, but as our DH. He hit lefties well last year, while also demolishing righties. I would be fine with Hanley staying at first base for another season since he wasn't atrocious at it this year. Not sure what the cost for Martinez would be but I can't see it being too outrageous for DDo's liking.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 7, 2016 21:33:15 GMT -5
Has J.D. Martinez ever played 1B? He would probably be the most intriguing option on a one year deal if he could play the position better than Hanley. What do you give up? Maricio Dubon seems like a logical trade candidate if the Tigers want to unload Kinsler. I think they'll hold onto Kinsler, but looking at today's market I would not be surprised if Swihart was brought up, granted we'd have to be confident we can extend Martinez. Swihart would be too much to give up imo and would be a deal breaker for me. He's the only form of catching depth the Sox currently have behind Leon and Vasquez. I would offer Shaw and Dubon and see where that leads to. The Tigers are looking to dump major payroll this off season. Don't be surprised to see Kinsler traded at all. The reason I would like Martinez is because he's on a one year deal. Offer him the QO if there is one and let someone else pay JD.
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Post by rookie13 on Nov 7, 2016 21:53:13 GMT -5
Not sure if it's been discussed yet, but what does everyone think of Verlander? I could see a scenario where JD gets packaged with him, if the price is right for Detroit. I don't like Verlander's contract but I can't help but dream over a rotation of (in whichever order) Porcello, Price, Verlander, Rodriguez, Pomeranz/Wright/Buchholz.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 7, 2016 22:19:47 GMT -5
Not sure if it's been discussed yet, but what does everyone think of Verlander? I could see a scenario where JD gets packaged with him, if the price is right for Detroit. I don't like Verlander's contract but I can't help but dream over a rotation of (in whichever order) Porcello, Price, Verlander, Rodriguez, Pomeranz/Wright/Buchholz. Meh, I'm all set with Verlander and that contract. The Sox won't be looking at rotation options based off DD's comments anyways.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 8, 2016 1:18:25 GMT -5
It feels like a lot of people are really underestimating the type of money Chapman and Jansen will command this offseason. They are going to destroy Papelbon's record contract. It's going to be so bad. I want absolutely nothing to do with either of those guys. Yeah, the more discussion I see bandied about, the more I'm going back on my original desire to sign Jansen. I (foolishly) thought 4/64 might do it, but it looks like people are talking 6/100. Ridiculous. The Sox developed Miller...they'd be better off looking for reclamation projects and/or taking on a Davis contract. Or trying to get a guy like Mike Montgomery. Way too much to spend on a reliever.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 8, 2016 1:50:02 GMT -5
It's going to be so bad. I want absolutely nothing to do with either of those guys. Yeah, the more discussion I see bandied about, the more I'm going back on my original desire to sign Jansen. I (foolishly) thought 4/64 might do it, but it looks like people are talking 6/100. Ridiculous. The Sox developed Miller...they'd be better off looking for reclamation projects and/or taking on a Davis contract. Or trying to get a guy like Mike Montgomery. Way too much to spend on a reliever. The reliever market is about to get to a new ridiculous this off season. Hopefully the Sox can even get a Greg Holland this off season.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 8, 2016 1:52:13 GMT -5
Not sure if it's been discussed yet, but what does everyone think of Verlander? I could see a scenario where JD gets packaged with him, if the price is right for Detroit. I don't like Verlander's contract but I can't help but dream over a rotation of (in whichever order) Porcello, Price, Verlander, Rodriguez, Pomeranz/Wright/Buchholz. Meh, I'm all set with Verlander and that contract. The Sox won't be looking at rotation options based off DD's comments anyways. Yeah, he's a horse and still a #2, and he's pitched well in the postseason, but he's not so much better than the guys they have that it would be worth giving up quality players *and* paying $20+M a year into his decline. Other than trying to extend Pomeranz a couple of years at reasonable cost (maybe a little more than Miley got), there's nothing to do with the rotation. They've got a very good one. Maybe come next deadline, see how Kopech's progressing, see if Owens/Johnson can contribute, and trade Buchholz if the depth looks adequate. But for just a little more than they'd have to give up for Verlander, they could explore young guys with TOR upside who aren't there yet but make peanuts, rather than a guy on the downswing who has a prohibitively large contract. I brought up Verlander last summer before they got Pomeranz, and I still think it might've been worth it if the money could've been worked down a bit, but as of now, they have no rotation needs at all. Glad to see DD plans on standing pat there.
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Post by telson13 on Nov 8, 2016 1:58:05 GMT -5
Yeah, the more discussion I see bandied about, the more I'm going back on my original desire to sign Jansen. I (foolishly) thought 4/64 might do it, but it looks like people are talking 6/100. Ridiculous. The Sox developed Miller...they'd be better off looking for reclamation projects and/or taking on a Davis contract. Or trying to get a guy like Mike Montgomery. Way too much to spend on a reliever. The reliever market is about to get to a new ridiculous this off season. Hopefully the Sox can even get a Greg Holland this off season. Agreed...take a few risks on shorter-term contracts with mid-level AAV. A guy like Holland, if he got back to even close to where he was, would be a nice addition. And if he did pitch well, his track record would make him attractive as a trade piece should Smith return and pitch well, or Barnes improve. Joe Kelly, if he pitches like he did at the end of last year, could really deepen the 'pen. With all of the insanity around relievers these days, it makes sense to hoard some formerly near-elite ones (or at least, high-upside/higher risk guys) who might take short-term deals hoping to rebuild value. Then, they either extend the game for the Sox, or if there's a bullpen crunch, can be flipped easily for good return.
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Post by yazman67 on Nov 8, 2016 5:44:01 GMT -5
Why not bring back Nap for 2 years? He and Hanley can platoon 1B and DH. He loves the town, came off a solid year and brings leadership to the clubhouse! He's a winner! Cheaper option than EE and still has more in the tank than Beltran or Joey Bats!
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Post by ryan24 on Nov 8, 2016 7:29:00 GMT -5
Like this idea big time.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 8, 2016 8:32:19 GMT -5
Why not bring back Nap for 2 years? He and Hanley can platoon 1B and DH. He loves the town, came off a solid year and brings leadership to the clubhouse! He's a winner! Cheaper option than EE and still has more in the tank than Beltran or Joey Bats! For two reasons. 1) If the rules don't change, Napoli would cost the Sox a 1st round pick, and that's a big deal. A signing of Beltran wouldn't do that to the Red Sox. 2) Napoli could very well struggle. He's hit or miss. He was having a lousy year when the Sox dealt him in 2015. He struggled mightily in Sept and October and he is getting older. Without a draft pick attached you might gamble on that, but I personally wouldn't if one is attached.
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redsox04071318champs
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Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 8, 2016 8:36:29 GMT -5
One other thing, there is always some sticker shock every winter when it comes to predicting what players will cost to sign. Can't tell you how many times I've read posters thinking just throw X for annual value and Y for years and it's nice and neat, but the X is always a lot higher than imagined. It never fails. I always wonder how much higher they can push it. Now an ace is over 30 million/year. Eventually it will be over 40 million. I always wonder at what point does this stop? But it never really does. So if you told me some reliever will get 5 years $100 million I wouldn't be shocked. Doesn't mean I'd do it, but I just wouldn't be that surprised. Papelbon's record deal is going to get blown away, and non-closers will soon be getting more than $10 million/year too.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2016 9:36:20 GMT -5
Why not bring back Nap for 2 years? He and Hanley can platoon 1B and DH. He loves the town, came off a solid year and brings leadership to the clubhouse! He's a winner! Cheaper option than EE and still has more in the tank than Beltran or Joey Bats! For two reasons. 1) If the rules don't change, Napoli would cost the Sox a 1st round pick, and that's a big deal. A signing of Beltran wouldn't do that to the Red Sox. 2) Napoli could very well struggle. He's hit or miss. He was having a lousy year when the Sox dealt him in 2015. He struggled mightily in Sept and October and he is getting older. Without a draft pick attached you might gamble on that, but I personally wouldn't if one is attached. Napoli wasn't offered a QO-- won't cost them a pick.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 8, 2016 10:07:33 GMT -5
As big as a Napoli fan I've been over the years, I think the Red Sox would be well served to find the next one rather than the last one. Back in the days of five-man benches I'd have been cool with him as a right-handed bat who could spell first base and DH on the short side of a platoon. But he just turned 35, he's at .232/.330/.442 the last two years, he was terrible from August through the playoffs, and he doesn't offer any positional flexibility. On top of that, the defense took a huge step backwards this year too, which could be a single-season blip but still isn't a great bet at 35.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 8, 2016 10:38:02 GMT -5
EE is seeking 5/$125M. No thanks.
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