2017 Celtics offseason

No way should the Celts move their 1st overall pick for George. Hayward or George isn't enough to beat LeBron. The Celts could be just as good next year through probably a trade or maybe keeping the same team AND keep the number 1 pick. The idea should be unless a superstar falls into the Celts lap, keep using the draft picks to build the team. This kid should be able to give them an added spark next year from the bench, and with the year after adding another high draft pick, the team's overall talent level will begin to rival power teams from the West not named Golden State. There is a great opportunity here to not lose sight on patience while the team can still be good the next couple of years and in time the high draft picks should become major impacts as LeBron becomes a bit less dominant.

Who knows? - if you keep the star draft picks of 2017 and 2018 and you have enough of a bench, maybe LeBron can come to Boston after 2019. And if he doesn't and the Celts still had a good Isiah and got Hayward with their two you draft picks of 2017 and 2018- maybe those teams can beat LeBron. But trading for George while sending a potential tremendous number 1 pick overall player is like trying to spring through 50 feet of quicksand.

 You are not alone. I don't want the C's to go after Blake either for most of the reasons you have put forth. Most importantly his combination of personality, injuries and his game will slide with his athleticism.

You had me at Wiggins is the worst.  Which he is, but man he's still a darn good young player.  I just wish there were draft rankings like in football. You know where they rate them 100 to 0. 100 being players like James and Duncan.  I would love to compare the rankings of guys like Irving, Wall, Paul, Rose, etc to Fultz.  The only place I know that does that is nbadraft.net.   They have Fultz at 100 a head of Wiggins and Irving, but behind players like Wall, Rose, Davis and Griffin.

Why would you only focus on my minor point about LeBron and not about how I disagreed about trying to get George and trading away the number 1 pick? Along with your focus on LeBron and not on my points of trying to keep as many young guys as possible which others on this thread seemed okay to trade the number 1 pick?  

He actually agreed with your post.

Ryan Bernardoni breaks down 5 possibilities to get space for a Max Salary (or, in 1 case, darn close). All scenarios involve renouncing the UFAs:

1. Renounce Olynyk, Cut Zeller + Mickey, Trade Rozier + Jackson, Trade or Stash Yabusele = $29.9Mn in space

2. Renounce Olynyk, Cut Zeller + Mickey, Trade Smart + Jackson = $31.09

3. Renounce Olynyk, Cut Mickey, Trade Bradley + Rozier + Jackson, Trade/Stash Yabusele = $30.8

4. Renounce Olynyk, Cut Zeller + Mickey, Trade Bradley = $34.8

5. Qualify Olynyk, Cut Zeller + Mickey, Trade Bradley + Rozier + Jackson, Trade/Stash Yabusele = $31Mn.

I don't like options 1, 3 and 5 bc one way or another, we're going to have some high priced guards. Having a guy who has already warranted rotational minutes but makes under $2Mn is big.

I would agree. Ryan keeps going back to that from an original article where he assumed he was taken so high bc he agreed to stay for 2 years.

Everything we're seeing/hearing now suggest otherwise.

I have to agree that Yabu was picked so high because he agreed to being stashed two years if we had to. Now that doesn't mean he wants to or that he likes it. It's the only thing that makes sense. He was waaaay over drafted. He was ranked behind Jackson and Bentil on every draft ranking that I saw. Nevermind they took him before Zizic, which makes no sense. Unless Yabu agreed to two years, while Zizic only agreed to one year. Zizic was drawing interest from lottery teams, we got great value on him. Yabu would have been there with our first second round pick, like 95% chance.

One thing about these possibilities, cutting Jackson cost us money as Texas pointed out. If you did number #2, but kept Yabu overseas you could trade Smart for a 2018 restricted free agent like Montrezl Harrell or Lucas Nogueira and still create enough space. Lucas Nogueira would be my #1 target. He is exactly the rebounding shot blocking defensive monster we need. You might need a 3 team trade, but Toronto hardly played him after Ibaka trade. They have 3 centers that are all the same, it would seem one needs to go. I just love the Idea of trading Smart for another good young player, rather than a draft pick. I also think Nogueira helps us more next year than Yabu. Right now that's my best case Smart trade scenario.

For me, it's not "all but guaranteed" but:

1. You'll get more value for Bradley
2. Bradley will probably cost more to keep next summer, especially if . . .
3. You have more control over Smart in that you make a qualifying offer and see if others have the same reservations as you do.

Very often, it isn't the lesser player that gets traded.

You could get a lot more for Bradley, but to clear salary you can only get draft picks. I wouldn't mind trading him for let's say a Favors type player. You can't get a pick this year as it would add salary, so your talking about a future pick that is unknown. You won't know exactly what pick you get or the strength of the draft. I don't trade a player of Bradley's caliber for that. Let's think best case, a team like Magic give you next years unprotected first round pick. Now you're getting decent value, but the Magic in the weak east could still be a playoff team and push that pick into the mid teens. Looking at what Jeff Teague went for, Bradley would seem to be worth a lottery pick this year, if not top 10 pick.

That's why moving Smart makes more sense. You can still likely get a future first for him or do a trade like I said earlier. While I wouldn't worry about trading Smart to Raptors, I'm not trading Bradley to them. So until I see a decent Bradley trade idea, I'm not trading him over Smart. Nevermind Bradley, Thomas, Fultz and Rozier is a much better fit, than Smart, Thomas, Fultz and Rozzier. I always said Smart and Rozzier as your backups isn't a great fit. That's two defensive minded non shooting point guards. Though I have faith Rozzier can become at least decent in time.

As to Yabu, he was ranked a tier below those other guys. Only Davis really fell well below his tier ranking. Jackson and Bentil fell, but were still in there teir because it was massive, like 30 plus players. Are you saying you believe Yabu was the top prospect available in Dannys opinion? Every single draft expert called it a reach, but it was done because they needed to stash players to go after free agents. Danny had to know most likely he wasn't going to get two max guys last year, so he would be thinking about this year. So I fully believe Yabu went where he did because he was there top rated stash guy that would stay overseas for two years. I don't think he likes it, he wanted to come over last year, but that's more likely than not why he went 16 overall. There have been reports he agreed to two years, there are no reports like that for Zizic. Do we think people are just making stuff up? That information had to come from somewhere.

Another point that I'm keeping separate (bc it probably doesn't have much tangible value in this discussion as it's a non-professional gut reaction):

Sometimes I actually think it's more likely that Rozier becomes a better shooter and becomes a poor man's Bradley than it is him becoming a legitimate PG. The times I've watched, the ball dies in his hands (pounding and going nowhere) when he's the primary ball handler. At the same time, I've seen him have success off the ball.

Of course, that still makes he/Smart a rough pairing.

My only point on Yabu is he was over drafted because he was willing to stay overseas. If I had to guess it was a for sure one year, with a maybe second year. That's my opinion as to why he went so high. I have yet to see any reports from Celtics saying for sure he is coming over next year. If that happended, I missed it. I have seen a bunch of people talk about stashing him for another year.

What does 4 million get you? I can find a bunch of wild card type guys for Smart, but it's a lot harder with Bradley. It's basically got to be a player on a rookie level deal. Nugueira and a 1st round draft pick for Bradley works for me deal wise. I just hate sending him to one of the top teams in the East. The big exception is getting a pick this year. I've been working under the assumption that a Bradley deal happens only after you get a free agent to agree. If the Celtics just decide that Bradley is going to be traded no matter what. That changes things. Recent report said Minny and Detriot had called asking about Bradley. While it didn't tell you when, it implied it was fairly recent. Now I can't see Minny trading pick #7, but Detriot maybe trades #12 if they really want Bradley. That's right in the range of most top bigs for this year. It would give you a chance at Collins, Markkanen, Allen, the other Collins, Bam, Leaf, Patton and Giles. Does Danny love one of those guys? It's a huge collection of skilled bigs in every shape and form. It's also a good value section, in a normal draft a bunch of these guys would go higher. If Minny wanted to make a jump and would some how deal #7 it would get very interesting. Monk if he was there would make for a nice partner for Fultz long-term. Minny can't be that crazy, there Celtic loving GM is gone, scratch that.

The biggest issue is team fit. If no Bradley who starts at SG? Fultz could, but I would rather he be the third guard and backup pg. So he learns how to run the team and we don't put to much pressure on him. Starting on a playoff team is a ton of pressure for a rookie. I would much rather make him earn it, then just hand it to him.

As to Rozier I agree, that's why I want Fultz as my backup pg. Rozier would be my backup SG and defensive, energy type guy. Fultz and Rozier fit together, better than Smart and Rozier.