SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2018 Red Sox roster building
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 11, 2018 12:04:03 GMT -5
JFC, it's negotiating. That's what is done before contracts are signed. He won't get what he's asking for, but he'll get more than what he would have gotten if he signed the first offer on the first day. What I took from the article is that his asking price has gone down from 7/210 to 6/180. That's it. I hope you got your waiting shoes ready. Looks like we are dealing with this until spring training starts. Everyone is waiting for spring training whether JDM signs or not. They won't start the season early if he signs now. This is bordering on an OCD obsession. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 11, 2018 12:07:18 GMT -5
I hope you got your waiting shoes ready. Looks like we are dealing with this until spring training starts. Everyone is waiting for spring training whether JDM signs or not. They won't start the season early if he signs now. If Martinez is willing to wait into spring training and maybe into the season for a contract he wants and he is WILLING to do so, then that could affect the Sox performance on the field (wins) and that doesn't matter to you? Martinez falling behind everyone in spring training and the regular season isn't a good thing. This is a year where the Sox need to be doing everything to win this year. |
|
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,840
|
Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 11, 2018 12:13:26 GMT -5
So J.D. Martinez is looking for 60 and 180 instead of 7 and 210 now. This is ridiculous. What a "discount." For a player who can't play the field and has a hard time staying healthy. Don't worry, this non-sense will go on until spring training people. He is a DH and wants to be paid like he is David Price. Offer 6 and 150 and don't be afraid to walk away. THIS is as far as I would go with him HAVING to have his 6th year. It is amazing someone who is a liability in the field (and will get worse), doesn't play everyday (because he gets hurt), and is considered a poor base-runner thinks they should get $30 mil a year for that long. WOW. I can't believe anyone will pay him that kind of money for a probably poor left-fielder. Leftfield is not considered one of the top skill positions either. JD would look ridiculous in Fenway's righfield. |
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jan 11, 2018 12:14:21 GMT -5
JFC, it's negotiating. That's what is done before contracts are signed. He won't get what he's asking for, but he'll get more than what he would have gotten if he signed the first offer on the first day. What I took from the article is that his asking price has gone down from 7/210 to 6/180. That's it. I hope you got your waiting shoes ready. Looks like we are dealing with this until spring training starts. Take this in the nicest, kindest, most constructive way possible: relax. The Red Sox don't owe JD Martinez anything, JD Martinez doesn't owe the Red Sox anything, and neither owe you the convenience of coming to an agreement more quickly because you are impatient. And, while I want you and everyone else posting as much as you want, posting several times a day about how nothing is happening and how impatient you are (which is what you've been doing) is definitely feeding your impatience. So... just chill. You're not "dealing" with anyone. You're getting worked up about millionaires negotiating with billionaires. |
|
|
|
Post by cyaz8 on Jan 11, 2018 12:14:27 GMT -5
JDM, You can stay home whatever you want to. You're not worth more than 5 yr contract/over 150 mil. It's bad luck for all teams to give long terms & fat contracts. See Price Fielder, Joe Hamilton, Jayson Werth, Pablo Sandoval, Ryan Howard, etc. They're out of baseball now. It's grave mistake to give out ridiculous contracts like that. You're not going to give same value to the RS same way as David Ortiz did for the RS and you're not much better at OF than what Benny, JBJ & Betts could gave us. We know that you're f***king mad to find out Jay Bruce took only 3/39 as Mets power HR hitter/4th OF. If you miss out entire Feb ST & March exhibition games for better deal, you won't help your new team with chemistry, not ready and get off slow start. Just stay home, JDM.
|
|
|
|
Post by terriblehondo on Jan 11, 2018 12:14:38 GMT -5
Everyone is waiting for spring training whether JDM signs or not. They won't start the season early if he signs now. If Martinez is willing to wait into spring training and maybe into the season for a contract he wants and he is WILLING to do so, then that could affect the Sox performance on the field (wins) and that doesn't matter to you? Martinez falling behind everyone in spring training and the regular season isn't a good thing. This is a year where the Sox need to be doing everything to win this year. Yeah why worry about it. They will have a good team without him on the roster. It is not like the Sox are the Marlins. They could win it all with what they have now. More would be nice but they could get the job done with what they have now. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 11, 2018 12:18:48 GMT -5
I hope you got your waiting shoes ready. Looks like we are dealing with this until spring training starts. Take this in the nicest, kindest, most constructive way possible: relax. The Red Sox don't owe JD Martinez anything, JD Martinez doesn't owe the Red Sox anything, and neither owe you the convenience of coming to an agreement more quickly because you are impatient. And, while I want you and everyone else posting as much as you want, posting several times a day about how nothing is happening and how impatient you are (which is what you've been doing) is definitely feeding your impatience. So... just chill. You're not "dealing" with anyone. You're getting worked up about millionaires negotiating with billionaires. I'll take the advice James, but it isn't just me as I've said in the Boras thread. This is getting noticed around baseball with how long things are taking this slow to develop in free agency. |
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 11, 2018 12:32:01 GMT -5
So J.D. Martinez is looking for 60 and 180 instead of 7 and 210 now. This is ridiculous. What a "discount." For a player who can't play the field and has a hard time staying healthy. Don't worry, this non-sense will go on until spring training people. He is a DH and wants to be paid like he is David Price. Offer 6 and 150 and don't be afraid to walk away. THIS is as far as I would go with him HAVING to have his 6th year. It is amazing someone who is a liability in the field (and will get worse), doesn't play everyday (because he gets hurt), and is considered a poor base-runner thinks they should get $30 mil a year for that long. WOW. I can't believe anyone will pay him that kind of money for a probably poor left-fielder. Leftfield is not considered one of the top skill positions either. JD would look ridiculous in Fenway's righfield. JD Martinez's value per Fangraphs over the last four years: 2014 - $30.6m 2015 - $39.6m 2016 - $14.1m 2017 - $30.6m |
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 11, 2018 12:36:30 GMT -5
Everyone is waiting for spring training whether JDM signs or not. They won't start the season early if he signs now. If Martinez is willing to wait into spring training and maybe into the season for a contract he wants and he is WILLING to do so, then that could affect the Sox performance on the field (wins) and that doesn't matter to you? Martinez falling behind everyone in spring training and the regular season isn't a good thing. This is a year where the Sox need to be doing everything to win this year. It doesn't matter to me until it happens. |
|
|
|
Post by taftreign on Jan 11, 2018 13:30:48 GMT -5
Take this in the nicest, kindest, most constructive way possible: relax. The Red Sox don't owe JD Martinez anything, JD Martinez doesn't owe the Red Sox anything, and neither owe you the convenience of coming to an agreement more quickly because you are impatient. And, while I want you and everyone else posting as much as you want, posting several times a day about how nothing is happening and how impatient you are (which is what you've been doing) is definitely feeding your impatience. So... just chill. You're not "dealing" with anyone. You're getting worked up about millionaires negotiating with billionaires. I'll take the advice James, but it isn't just me as I've said in the Boras thread. This is getting noticed around baseball with how long things are taking this slow to develop in free agency. I'm not sure why this is surprising. The new structure of penalization in regards to the salary cap threshold clearly was going to have an adverse effect on free agency. Teams now have a great incentive to be able to reset every few years or avoid going over altogether. How are teams going to do this. Either sign players are bargain rates ,which is generally done by waiting out the market, and by signing players to shorter term deals, which research shows for players over 30 should not exceed 5 years in regards to performance. This has generally been the rule for lower revenue teams like Tampa, Pittsburgh, etc . . . but they have been joined now by the upper payroll teams. Their is a concerted effort by owners to contain free agent deals. I'm not saying collusion per say but a genuine shared effort by front offices to be "smarter" about their approaches and the long term ramifications. I expect this is now on average a new norm versus the oddity that some have defined it. Now next season will make this seem not to be the case but I believe the rules are different for the premium (and youngish) free agents. This includes Harper, Machado and Kershaw among others. These are the players you manage your cap to be able to sign and exceed the limit while planning your way to be under the cap a few years later. This season had no real premium players. JDM may be the best of the crop but that is the best of a fairly mediocre crop which Boras proceeds to play up as deserving of premium status. It's just good business if not good media. |
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jan 11, 2018 17:10:55 GMT -5
Does anyone know a good site where i can order those waiting shoes?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 17:16:45 GMT -5
Does anyone know a good site where i can order those waiting shoes? Loafers. Com |
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Jan 11, 2018 17:42:17 GMT -5
Last year Moreland hit .385/.467 in the post season. JDM hit .250/.294. Do you think that's significant? Altuve hit 3 HR in game 1. Do you think he's normally a guy who hits about 486 home runs per season or is it only if he faced Chris Sale for every at bat? Significant? You answer. Mediocre was the key word I was addressing. Altuve is your straw man. My would be Daniel Nava who failed to hit another grand slam after his first AB. Such a disappointment. |
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jan 11, 2018 18:00:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jan 11, 2018 18:04:22 GMT -5
Do you think that's significant? Altuve hit 3 HR in game 1. Do you think he's normally a guy who hits about 486 home runs per season or is it only if he faced Chris Sale for every at bat? Significant? You answer. Mediocre was the key word I was addressing. Altuve is your straw man. My would be Daniel Nava who failed to hit another grand slam after his first AB. Such a disappointment. We're still talking about 4 games for JDM and Moreland. TINY sample size. You can do nothing whatsoever to prevent bad performance or guarantee good performance in 4 games for any player. Papi hit .111/.250/.222 in the 2016 playoffs for example. Ted Williams played 7 playoff games in his career and hit .200/.333/.200. Do you think if he played 85 playoff games like David Ortiz did, he wouldn't hit a whole lot better than that? |
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,649 
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jan 11, 2018 18:13:23 GMT -5
I love pedey, always will but I hope he is smart about this. We all know he is a gamer but the sox need him healthy in September and October. It would do the team no good for him to reinjure himself by coming back before he is ready. |
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Jan 11, 2018 21:03:24 GMT -5
Significant? You answer. Mediocre was the key word I was addressing. Altuve is your straw man. My would be Daniel Nava who failed to hit another grand slam after his first AB. Such a disappointment. We're still talking about 4 games for JDM and Moreland. TINY sample size. You can do nothing whatsoever to prevent bad performance or guarantee good performance in 4 games for any player. Papi hit .111/.250/.222 in the 2016 playoffs for example. Ted Williams played 7 playoff games in his career and hit .200/.333/.200. Do you think if he played 85 playoff games like David Ortiz did, he wouldn't hit a whole lot better than that? The post I was responding to lamented the signing of Moreland as mediocrity in the lower half of the batting order while belying angst with regard to our need to sign JDM. I was addressing his world view with the most recent playoff stats. For those who think JDM is a necessity. I am acutely aware of the disparity between regular season stats and post season stats (which is why I am big on individual match ups). Those who think that a bopper is imperative for this team only need to look at Papis' 2016 line and JDMs' 2017 post season numbers. |
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 11, 2018 21:17:24 GMT -5
I love pedey, always will but I hope he is smart about this. We all know he is a gamer but the sox need him healthy in September and October. It would do the team no good for him to reinjure himself by coming back before he is ready. Yeah I hope the Sox put the brakes on him. I'm excited to see Marco play anyways. That kid is a toolsy player and I like him A LOT at second base. I think that could be his best and most natural position on the field. |
|
|
|
Post by 07redsox on Jan 12, 2018 9:27:53 GMT -5
We're still talking about 4 games for JDM and Moreland. TINY sample size. You can do nothing whatsoever to prevent bad performance or guarantee good performance in 4 games for any player. Papi hit .111/.250/.222 in the 2016 playoffs for example. Ted Williams played 7 playoff games in his career and hit .200/.333/.200. Do you think if he played 85 playoff games like David Ortiz did, he wouldn't hit a whole lot better than that? The post I was responding to lamented the signing of Moreland as mediocrity in the lower half of the batting order while belying angst with regard to our need to sign JDM. I was addressing his world view with the most recent playoff stats. For those who think JDM is a necessity. I am acutely aware of the disparity between regular season stats and post season stats (which is why I am big on individual match ups). Those who think that a bopper is imperative for this team only need to look at Papis' 2016 line and JDMs' 2017 post season numbers. There is a problem with that though because it goes both ways. You are using those stats to justify why we don't absolutely need someone like Ortiz/JDM by showing that they didn't contribute much in the postseason. If you understand that the post season numbers don't mean much at all in such a small sample, then you can't possibly use it to justify why an Ortiz/JDM type hitter isn't required. I understand from reading your posts that you want a top of the rotation starter instead of a top flight hitter, which is an understandable request. But using postseason stats does not show how imperative a hitter is to this team, nor does it show that they would be better off with another ace. In face, if we want to cherry pick post season stats I could do the same thing with Sale this postseason to show why we don't need a top of the rotation pitcher. But that wouldn't make much sense to do. |
|
|
|
Post by p23w on Jan 12, 2018 11:26:43 GMT -5
I understand from reading your posts that you want a top of the rotation starter instead of a top flight hitter, which is an understandable request. But using postseason stats does not show how imperative a hitter is to this team, nor does it show that they would be better off with another ace. In face, if we want to cherry pick post season stats I could do the same thing with Sale this postseason to show why we don't need a top of the rotation pitcher. But that wouldn't make much sense to do.
[/quote]
Not true. My contention has always been that this team is short with respect to pitching. This team won a post season game last year with a "mediocre" Moreland in the line up. This team also surrendered 8 runs twice and could not hold a late inning lead. Of course a JDM or an Ortiz would stand to help, but it is doubtful that either guy would account for 6 runs, not once, but twice in last years playoffs. And the presence of Ortiz did not help enough to win the season series against NY in 2016. It's about match ups. This team does not match up well against Houston or NY.
There is a problem with that though because it goes both ways. You are using those stats to justify why we don't absolutely need someone like Ortiz/JDM by showing that they didn't contribute much in the postseason. If you understand that the post season numbers don't mean much at all in such a small sample, then you can't possibly use it to justify why an Ortiz/JDM type hitter isn't required.
I am not opposed to a top of the line bat. I like JDM. He has a career .337 BA against the NYY. I used the post season stats to illustrate the incongruity of labeling Moreland as mediocre. I just think that our top two pitchers (however good their numbers are in the regular season) show a tendency (much like Pedro did) to run out of gas somewhere around the 3200 pitch mark. These guys are not built like Clemens or Verlander. And they are lefties. The Yanks and the Astros' are predominately right hand line ups. This is not a good recipe for a Price or Sale that are not at 100%. FWIW I have more faith, or expectation, with Sale then I have for Price. That said even if one of the two is at the top of his game we still need another top of the line pitcher (preferably a righty) at the top of his game to get to the WS. The difference between standing pat and signing JDM would be negligible come October. The road to a deeper run in the post season lies in rotation management and a quality RHSP in the rotation. Unless Porcello steps up big time (which I have serious doubt, due to the match ups with NY and Hstn) then this team will not advance. Keep in mind both the Astros' and the NYYs' will be adding a front line SP. Most likely a RHSP.
|
|
|
|
Post by brendan98 on Jan 12, 2018 11:35:52 GMT -5
Random thoughts:
JDM seems like an imperfect fit in Boston, no doubt he is a big time hitter, but his entire value is due to his bat. JDM wants $30M a year over 6 years, and based upon track record it seems likely Boras will get it for him (or at least get very close), I hope it’s not with the Sox. Big Papi was the best DH ever and never made more than $16M a year, and that was not a decade ago, it was 2015 & 2016.
If Price is ineffective as a starter in the first half of 2018, should the Sox put him back in the bullpen role that he finished the 2017 season pitching so well in? Might not be the reason you paid him $30M a year, but at some point don’t you have to try to maximize a players value to the team? Besides, if Porcello, Wright and E Rod bounce back, the Sox rotation might not miss a beat with Price in the pen.
Would anyone be surprised to see Pedey at 2B on Opening Day? If he’s not, I’m rooting for Swihart to win that spot in Spring Training, the idea of Swihart able to be a backup C, play OF, and play all the IF positions other than SS is intriguing, this year may very well be his last shot with the Red Sox, I hope he can finally break through.
Speaking of Pedey, I’d love to see the Sox bring his buddy Andre Ethier in to platoon with Hanley, the guy has always hit RHP, and even if Hanley has a bounce back year, the Sox would be smart to keep his 2019 option from vesting, with Ethier taking a good number of his at-bats vs RHP Hanley’s money could go towards extending Xander or Mookie or Sale, or it could…………..
Go to Bryce Harper next year, if the Sox are going to pay a free agent $30M+ on a long term deal, this is the guy to go after, I’d much rather see the Sox pay Harper $35M a year for 10 years for his ages 26-35 seasons, than pay JDM $30M a year for 6 years for his ages 30-35 seasons.
As big a deal as the press has made about the Sox needing to add an impact power bat, I’m comfortable with the Sox as they stand. I believe Cora will have a great influence on this young ballclub. Other than Benintendi, I don’t think any other batter in the Red Sox lineup when the season started, really performed to expectations. For one reason or another, and to one extent or another, I’d expect for Mookie, Xander, JBJ, Moreland, Hanley and Pedroia to be more productive in 2018, Benintendi could be better with a year under his belt, and the huge addition is, of course, a full season of Devers, honestly would anyone be surprised if the kid hit 30 HR’s and knocked in 100?
|
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Jan 12, 2018 11:47:44 GMT -5
I don't think Harper is a good fit for the Sox. He has shown a very temperamental personality that would have a hard time existing in Boston.
|
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jan 12, 2018 11:52:38 GMT -5
I don't think Harper is a good fit for the Sox. He has shown a very temperamental personality that would have a hard time existing in Boston. Yeah, Boston is a place for dudes who are chill and don't have a temper, like Pedro Martinez, Dustin Pedroia, David Ortiz, Jim Rice, Roger Clemens, and Ted Williams. It's okay to just say you don't like Harper. |
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,532
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Jan 12, 2018 12:05:13 GMT -5
If you don’t want Harper you’re a psychopath. The kid is 25 and has a career 141 wRC+. He’s one of the few guys you can give a 10 year contract to without worrying about the back end of it.
I’d love to get him just to keep him away from that short RF porch in NY alone. He’d terrorize us for a decade.
|
|
|
|
Post by brendan98 on Jan 12, 2018 12:17:25 GMT -5
Put Harper in the same lineup with Betts, Benintendi and Devers, and you won’t be worrying about offense anymore.
|
|
|
