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2018 Spring Training Discussion
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Mar 25, 2018 14:48:46 GMT -5
Potential roster move schedule: (Pomeranz prep starts: 3/28, 4/2. E-Rod prep starts: 3/29, 4/3, 4/8). 4/2: Velazquez optioned; Scott, Elias, or, most likely Lin recalled. They won't need 8 bullpen guys for the home opener with Price starting and off days before and after, and then Johnson will be available in the pen. So do they really need 8 relievers including 2 LHR for the 2 games against the Marlins, whose lineup has just two LHB (Dietrich and Bour)? Of course, a 3rd backup infielder isn't that helpful, either. (They could really use a AAAA OF with options.) So if they recall Scott or Elias, it's to audition him further vs. Poyner. 4/7: Johnson available in the pen. 4/8: Pomeranz off DL, extra guy recalled on 4/2 sent down (or Poyner, www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3506Eric, Some show a 10 day rule starting on 1st day of season Which makes April 8th the first day for recall
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 25, 2018 15:30:58 GMT -5
Potential roster move schedule: (Pomeranz prep starts: 3/28, 4/2. E-Rod prep starts: 3/29, 4/3, 4/8). 4/2: Velazquez optioned; Scott, Elias, or, most likely Lin recalled. They won't need 8 bullpen guys for the home opener with Price starting and off days before and after, and then Johnson will be available in the pen. So do they really need 8 relievers including 2 LHR for the 2 games against the Marlins, whose lineup has just two LHB (Dietrich and Bour)? Of course, a 3rd backup infielder isn't that helpful, either. (They could really use a AAAA OF with options.) So if they recall Scott or Elias, it's to audition him further vs. Poyner. 4/7: Johnson available in the pen. 4/8: Pomeranz off DL, extra guy recalled on 4/2 sent down (or Poyner, www.thecubreporter.com/book/export/html/3506Eric, Some show a 10 day rule starting on 1st day of season Which makes April 8th the first day for recall The actual rule is somewhat contradictory: "A Major League Club may not recall to the Active Roster a player who is on optional assignment until 10 days of the championship season have elapsed from the date of the optional assignment ... unless" (exceptions for DL list replacement, etc.) Now, if what they meant was either 10 days from the date of the optional assignment, or 10 days of the championship season, why didn't they say that? Furthermore, the exact same rule applies to outrighted players: (j) REACQUIRING PLAYER (1) If the player’s contract has been assigned outright by a Major League Club to a Minor League Club, the player’s contract may be reacquired at any time during the year by the assignor Major League Club without restrictions, except: (A) during the closed period set forth in Rule 9(b) [roster filing to Rule 5 draft] (B) within 10 days from the date of the most recent assignment to the Minor League Club, if the assignment was made during the championship season. [same exceptions for DL list, etc. follow] So a player outrighted off the 40-man the day before the season begins can be re-selected after the first game ... but if the player is optioned, you have to wait until 10 days have passed in the season? That doesn't make sense. Furthermore, I've never heard that rosters are essentially fixed for the first 10 days of the season in terms of options. I think the meaning of the first rule is "10 days after the option, assuming that includes some of the championship season." I think the intent of the rule is to prevent teams from changing their mind about who they're optioning before the season starts. You can't option a guy early in ST and recall him at the end of ST after he tears it up in the ml complex.
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Post by dirtdog on Mar 25, 2018 21:42:27 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 26, 2018 8:32:32 GMT -5
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 12:59:03 GMT -5
Interesting article (not sure if that's the right word for it) on WEEI.com that highlighted Dustin Pedroia's appearance on OMF.
He mentioned that John Farrell's managerial style "wore on" the team. I'm going to paraphrase with my own interpretation so if I'm off feel free to correct.
It's not surprising but as a lot of us suspected the pressure was very intense last season. There was very little joy last season. As a fan I could kind of sense it which is kind of weird.
Pedroia was saying the problem wasn't player vs player, that the team got along extremely well. It sounded like Farrell would overreact to a short-term scenario - Pedroia mentioned facing a tough pitcher as an example in which the guy throws the ball on the outer corners and if Pedroia plays to his strength which is to pull the ball and pulls an 0-fer then he got static about having to go the other way, as opposed to believing in a long-term process.
He references the quotes that Bogaerts and Betts had about not having much fun, about the pressure of having to throw a shutout or do something huge to actually enjoy themselves.
In other words - way too tense.
So this does a good job of explaining why Dombrowski was quick to dump Farrell after the season (and interestingly enough was given as a reason why Joe Girardi was dumped so quickly by Cashman who I think said he would have fired him even if they won the Series).
So here's hoping the Sox play loose. The irony of course is that the Sox were extremely loose in 2013 after the firing of Bobby Valentine who turned everything toxic in that clubhouse, so Farrell was seen as a breath of fresh air.
While Farrell at his worst wasn't anything like Bobby V, it's kind of a similar scenario where the Sox can take a breath of fresh air and perhaps have the fun return to their game.
It's not a new baseball scenario. The Yankees took off in 1978 when Billy Martin was dumped, the sportswriters went on strike, and the turmoil suddenly vanished as a quiet Bob Lemon told the guys just have fun.
In a weird way, because they were a very weird team, the 2004 Red Sox probably felt like the pressure vanished as soon as they got pummeled 19-8 in Game 3. They were supposed to lose. The pressure was now on the Yankees to put them away and avoid being the biggest embarrassment in baseball history - which is a warped, but so cool way to think when you're down 0-3.
Pressure is one of those things you really can't quantify in sports. Everybody reacts differently. But I do think it'll serve the Red Sox well, with this change in managers.
I have no idea if Alex Cora is a good manager or not. I'm pretty convinced he'd make a helluva scout. He doesn't miss a thing on the field. I was on the fence as to whether Farrell needed to go or not, but now I feel the Sox definitely made the right move going away from him. It'll be even a better move if Cora is as effective a manager as Francona was (and is).
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 13:07:50 GMT -5
Now I think the opening day roster is set.
To my surprise Marcus Walden appears to have actually made the team over Brandon Workman and Justin Haley (saw this on RedSox.com) who was sent down. Can't say I agree with that given Workman's longer track record, but that's what's happened.
So the rotation is: Sale, Price, Porecello, Johnson, Velazquez The bullpen is now: Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Poyner, Walden The catchers are: Vaquez, Leon, Swihart The infielders are: Ramirez, Nunez, Bogaerts, Devers, Moreland, Holt The outfielders are: Benintendi, Betts, Bradley, Martinez The DL consists of: Pomeranz, Rodriguez, Wright, Thornburg, Maddox, Pedroia
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 26, 2018 13:18:15 GMT -5
Now I think the opening day roster is set. To my surprise Marcus Walden appears to have actually made the team over Brandon Workman and Justin Haley (saw this on RedSox.com) who was sent down. Can't say I agree with that given Workman's longer track record, but that's what's happened. So the rotation is: Sale, Price, Porecello, Johnson, Velazquez The bullpen is now: Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Poyner, Walden The catchers are: Vaquez, Leon, Swihart The infielders are: Ramirez, Nunez, Bogaerts, Devers, Moreland, Holt The outfielders are: Benintendi, Betts, Bradley, Martinez The DL consists of: Pomeranz, Rodriguez, Wright, Thornburg, Maddox, Pedroia I find that hard to believe given that both Poyner and Walden aren't on the 40 man so there will be some players more than likely lost at some point. They could avoid the issue in the beginning of the season with DL stints, but that's not going to last long as people get healthy.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 26, 2018 13:20:23 GMT -5
Now I think the opening day roster is set. To my surprise Marcus Walden appears to have actually made the team over Brandon Workman and Justin Haley (saw this on RedSox.com) who was sent down. Can't say I agree with that given Workman's longer track record, but that's what's happened. So the rotation is: Sale, Price, Porecello, Johnson, Velazquez The bullpen is now: Kimbrel, Smith, Kelly, Barnes, Hembree, Poyner, Walden The catchers are: Vaquez, Leon, Swihart The infielders are: Ramirez, Nunez, Bogaerts, Devers, Moreland, Holt The outfielders are: Benintendi, Betts, Bradley, Martinez The DL consists of: Pomeranz, Rodriguez, Wright, Thornburg, Maddox, Pedroia If the Sox are going to add both Walden and Poyner to the roster, the Sox are most likely going to have to put Marco Hernandez on the 60 day DL and clear a 40 man roster spot. I think that will be the corresponding move to that.
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Post by RedSoxStats on Mar 26, 2018 13:20:51 GMT -5
Saw reports that in a couple of his games this spring Workman was throwing in the high 80s. Not sure if that that was some random gun or trackman on the video board, but will be interesting to see how he throws early. Someone with the Sox confirmed Hernandez is the move to me a little bit ago.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 26, 2018 13:28:26 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that Workman is getting sent down however. He just doesn't have a quality major league fastball anymore and you need that in today's bullpen arms these days. If the Sox need a 40 man roster spot this year, I could easily see the Sox DFAing Workman at some point.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 26, 2018 13:29:08 GMT -5
I'd suggest that Robby Scott be the one who gets waived given that they want Poyner over him. They also don't really need a LOOGY with how the bullpen is setup.
I'm not sure how long they can keep Layne, but he's plenty of LOOGY depth.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 26, 2018 13:33:21 GMT -5
I'd suggest that Robby Scott be the one who gets waived given that they want Poyner over him. They also don't really need a LOOGY with how the bullpen is setup. I'm not sure how long they can keep Layne, but he's plenty of LOOGY depth. Scott is another guy who get DFA'D at some point if the Sox desperately need a 40 man roster spot too this year.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 26, 2018 13:52:16 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that Workman is getting sent down however. He just doesn't have a quality major league fastball anymore and you need that in today's bullpen arms these days. If the Sox need a 40 man roster spot this year, I could easily see the Sox DFAing Workman at some point. I've seen you say this a couple times now, what exactly do you mean? Based on velocity and pitch values on fangraphs in 2017 his fastball was just fine and about the same as in 2013 and 2014 before surgery. Heck 2017 was his highest rated FB grade of his career. The biggest difference post surgery is he no longer throws a change up or slidder, but he's not starting either anymore. Are you just going off of Sping training games?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 26, 2018 14:02:24 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that Workman is getting sent down however. He just doesn't have a quality major league fastball anymore and you need that in today's bullpen arms these days. If the Sox need a 40 man roster spot this year, I could easily see the Sox DFAing Workman at some point. I've seen you say this a couple times now, what exactly do you mean? Based on velocity and pitch values on fangraphs in 2017 his fastball was just fine and about the same as in 2013 and 2014 before surgery. Heck 2017 was his highest rated FB grade of his career. The biggest difference post surgery is he no longer throws a change up or slidder, but he's not starting either anymore. Are you just going off of Sping training games? I'm going by what I saw in September of last year when he was getting rocked and what I saw in spring training, yes. He has been getting hit really hard at times. Giving up homeruns and hard contact galore.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 14:14:33 GMT -5
I'd suggest that Robby Scott be the one who gets waived given that they want Poyner over him. They also don't really need a LOOGY with how the bullpen is setup. I'm not sure how long they can keep Layne, but he's plenty of LOOGY depth. Doesn't Poyner get Marrero's spot on the 40 man roster? I trust Scott more than I trust Elias so I'd rather have Scott.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 14:18:00 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that Workman is getting sent down however. He just doesn't have a quality major league fastball anymore and you need that in today's bullpen arms these days. If the Sox need a 40 man roster spot this year, I could easily see the Sox DFAing Workman at some point. Yeah, I guess I still have the images of 2013 post-season Workman and the Workman we saw prior to September last year. That Brandon Workman was a good pitcher. He did lose it in September. I was surprised that Maddox got the post-season spot over Workman, but Workman wasn't pitching well. I went to a game on Sept 14th and in the perfect spot for Workman he lasted all of one batter. Farrell yanked him really quickly. And his number in spring training are ugly and I guess his fastball is down - makes me wonder if he's hurt again. To me, Marcus Walden is JAG, but good for him. I'd rather have kept Marrerro for SS insurance than have Walden up. I still don't know who plays SS on days Bogaerts needs a rest. Do we really trust Holt or Nunez to be that guy?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 26, 2018 14:21:54 GMT -5
I'd suggest that Robby Scott be the one who gets waived given that they want Poyner over him. They also don't really need a LOOGY with how the bullpen is setup. I'm not sure how long they can keep Layne, but he's plenty of LOOGY depth. Doesn't Poyner get Marrero's spot on the 40 man roster? I trust Scott more than I trust Elias so I'd rather have Scott. They can keep both Elias and Scott for now. They cleared two spots in order to add Walden and Poyner today.
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Post by Guidas on Mar 26, 2018 14:51:39 GMT -5
It doesn't surprise me that Workman is getting sent down however. He just doesn't have a quality major league fastball anymore and you need that in today's bullpen arms these days. If the Sox need a 40 man roster spot this year, I could easily see the Sox DFAing Workman at some point. Yeah, I guess I still have the images of 2013 post-season Workman and the Workman we saw prior to September last year. That Brandon Workman was a good pitcher. He did lose it in September. I was surprised that Maddox got the post-season spot over Workman, but Workman wasn't pitching well. I went to a game on Sept 14th and in the perfect spot for Workman he lasted all of one batter. Farrell yanked him really quickly. And his number in spring training are ugly and I guess his fastball is down - makes me wonder if he's hurt again. To me, Marcus Walden is JAG, but good for him. I'd rather have kept Marrerro for SS insurance than have Walden up. I still don't know who plays SS on days Bogaerts needs a rest. Do we really trust Holt or Nunez to be that guy? I would trust Lin much more than Holt or Nuñez on the defensive side. Neither of the latter two is a replacement-level SS and both could cost you a game in the position.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 26, 2018 14:55:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess I still have the images of 2013 post-season Workman and the Workman we saw prior to September last year. That Brandon Workman was a good pitcher. He did lose it in September. I was surprised that Maddox got the post-season spot over Workman, but Workman wasn't pitching well. I went to a game on Sept 14th and in the perfect spot for Workman he lasted all of one batter. Farrell yanked him really quickly. And his number in spring training are ugly and I guess his fastball is down - makes me wonder if he's hurt again. To me, Marcus Walden is JAG, but good for him. I'd rather have kept Marrerro for SS insurance than have Walden up. I still don't know who plays SS on days Bogaerts needs a rest. Do we really trust Holt or Nunez to be that guy? I would trust Lin much more than Holt or Nuñez on the defensive side. Neither of the latter two is a replacement-level SS and both could cost you a game in the position. If Xander needs rest, there's no issue with playing Holt for a game here and there. If he's out for a week or two, that's when Lin would get called up for sure. I'm much more worried about Nunez' fielding at 2B. I read something ridiculous about how he's only had like 3 ground balls hit to him in all of spring training. Would not be surprised to see Holt as a defensive replacement or even platooning with him if he's not hitting like he did for us last year.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 26, 2018 15:04:59 GMT -5
I'd suggest that Robby Scott be the one who gets waived given that they want Poyner over him. They also don't really need a LOOGY with how the bullpen is setup. I'm not sure how long they can keep Layne, but he's plenty of LOOGY depth. Doesn't Poyner get Marrero's spot on the 40 man roster? I trust Scott more than I trust Elias so I'd rather have Scott. Yeah, I forgot we were at 39. I don't trust Scott at all. Elias at least could start. Scott's ability is mainly due to his funky delivery that players will probably be getting used to soon if they haven't already. The 86 mph fastball isn't going to cut it when players are used to the delivery. Reminds me of Okajima, except he was never close to that good. He wasn't really a LOOGY either, but still had a crazy delivery.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 15:16:20 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess I still have the images of 2013 post-season Workman and the Workman we saw prior to September last year. That Brandon Workman was a good pitcher. He did lose it in September. I was surprised that Maddox got the post-season spot over Workman, but Workman wasn't pitching well. I went to a game on Sept 14th and in the perfect spot for Workman he lasted all of one batter. Farrell yanked him really quickly. And his number in spring training are ugly and I guess his fastball is down - makes me wonder if he's hurt again. To me, Marcus Walden is JAG, but good for him. I'd rather have kept Marrerro for SS insurance than have Walden up. I still don't know who plays SS on days Bogaerts needs a rest. Do we really trust Holt or Nunez to be that guy? I would trust Lin much more than Holt or Nuñez on the defensive side. Neither of the latter two is a replacement-level SS and both could cost you a game in the position. That's the concern. Lin won't be in Boston unless there's a DL situation, so if Bogaerts has one of those nagging injuries that's a few days or a week, then you have Holt or Nunez, who right now might be inadequate defensively for 2b, as your SS. That could get very messy. Lin played well in Boston, but I'm not sold on him yet. If he is a capable major league defensive SS then I guess you could live with him if Bogaerts is out, but I'd be very scared to find that out. I'd say SS is the one position the Red Sox aren't really well covered if there's a major injury. I'd say from a replacement value/depth standpoint, Bogaerts, Sale, and perhaps Kimbrel (unless Smith or somebody else can emerge) are the 3 players I'd worry most about long-term injuries to.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 26, 2018 15:21:26 GMT -5
I would trust Lin much more than Holt or Nuñez on the defensive side. Neither of the latter two is a replacement-level SS and both could cost you a game in the position. That's the concern. Lin won't be in Boston unless there's a DL situation, so if Bogaerts has one of those nagging injuries that's a few days or a week, then you have Holt or Nunez, who right now might be inadequate defensively for 2b, as your SS. That could get very messy. Lin played well in Boston, but I'm not sold on him yet. If he is a capable major league defensive SS then I guess you could live with him if Bogaerts is out, but I'd be very scared to find that out. I'd say SS is the one position the Red Sox aren't really well covered if there's a major injury. I'd say from a replacement value/depth standpoint, Bogaerts, Sale, and perhaps Kimbrel (unless Smith or somebody else can emerge) are the 3 players I'd worry most about long-term injuries to. Where does the concern for Lin's defense at SS come from other than a lack of seeing him play? Everything I've read is that he should be an above average defensive shortstop in the majors and thus very good SS depth for Xander.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 15:21:38 GMT -5
I would trust Lin much more than Holt or Nuñez on the defensive side. Neither of the latter two is a replacement-level SS and both could cost you a game in the position. If Xander needs rest, there's no issue with playing Holt for a game here and there. If he's out for a week or two, that's when Lin would get called up for sure. I'm much more worried about Nunez' fielding at 2B. I read something ridiculous about how he's only had like 3 ground balls hit to him in all of spring training. Would not be surprised to see Holt as a defensive replacement or even platooning with him if he's not hitting like he did for us last year. That occurred to me as a possible reason why Holt was kept over Marrero. Perhaps the Sox are worried that if Nunez started the bulk of games at 2b the Sox would have a guy who has practically no range at 2b. Maybe they figured although Marrero can definitely handle 2b well, he'd be a sure out, and if Holt was somewhat back to his pre-concussion performance level, then you have a guy who can play a decent 2b who can hit alright at the bottom of the order. It was probably the money - it's easier to move Marrero than Holt, but I would think the concern about Nunez right now at 2b would be a factor. Ultimately Marcos Hernandez becomes an important guy because he can play SS. He can also provide a speedy guy off the bench. If/when the Sox go to post-season you most likely carry 11 pitchers not 12 so you have that extra space and the fact that Hernandez isn't an automatic out at the plate provides more value. I think Hernandez could be that 5th bench guy in the post-season but I'm getting way ahead of myself. As it is now, I'm not sure why the Sox left themselves uncovered at SS adequately enough to carry Marcus Walden. I'd have preferred that Marrero and Holt were both kept and the Sox went with 11 pitchers instead, especially if keeping a LOOGY isn't a priority.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2018 15:24:20 GMT -5
That's the concern. Lin won't be in Boston unless there's a DL situation, so if Bogaerts has one of those nagging injuries that's a few days or a week, then you have Holt or Nunez, who right now might be inadequate defensively for 2b, as your SS. That could get very messy. Lin played well in Boston, but I'm not sold on him yet. If he is a capable major league defensive SS then I guess you could live with him if Bogaerts is out, but I'd be very scared to find that out. I'd say SS is the one position the Red Sox aren't really well covered if there's a major injury. I'd say from a replacement value/depth standpoint, Bogaerts, Sale, and perhaps Kimbrel (unless Smith or somebody else can emerge) are the 3 players I'd worry most about long-term injuries to. Where does the concern for Lin's defense at SS come from other than a lack of seeing him play? Everything I've read is that he should be an above average defensive shortstop in the majors and thus very good SS depth for Xander. It's what you said - I haven't really seen him play SS at the major league level. I saw him play 3b, although I know he's not a 3b. My other concern is his bat. If they had to play him because of a DL situation would he hit as poorly as he did in AAA or AA and below prior to last season? At the majors he showed patience and held his own offensively. I wouldn't expect him to be an asset with the bat, but I'd be concerned he'd be a black hole at the plate. I'd feel better if Hernandez was healthy as he'd be the guy, but I'm hoping that happens on later this season.
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Post by Addam603 on Mar 26, 2018 17:54:25 GMT -5
Devers shaken up on a collision at home plate. Walked off, but looked a little fuzzy and may have been walking with a limp.
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