SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
3/29-4/1 Red Sox @ Rays Series Thread
|
Post by James Dunne on Mar 30, 2018 12:30:30 GMT -5
One fun thing about Joe Kelly is that he has 560 major league innings over seven seasons and there are such wildly different views on whether he's any good.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 12:31:35 GMT -5
Hopefully Austin Madox gets healthy soon. The Sox could use him. The entire season hangs in the balance. Today is a must win! Like I'm one of the very few posters that hasn't blamed Cora for anything, and I haven't made one comment saying the season is over. The bullpen is a huge question mark. I remember when you blamed the umpire when Kelly literally couldn't hit a barn door yesterday. I don't know why you go out of your way to give snark. Maddox would be a big boost for this club.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2018 12:36:17 GMT -5
The entire season hangs in the balance. Today is a must win! Like I'm one of the very few posters that hasn't blamed Cora for anything, and I haven't made one comment saying the season is over. The bullpen is a huge question mark. I remember when you blamed the umpire when Kelly literally couldn't hit a barn door yesterday. I don't know why you go out of your way to give snark. Maddox would be a big boost for this club. I think you're overrating Maddox. His xFIP was 4.97 last year. Kelly's was 4.07. Maddox only had a 26% GB rate and a 3.3 HR/FB% and a 100% LOB%. Maddox could be decent, but he was pretty lucky last year. He's not going to change this team a lot, but he's good depth to have. For Maddox to make strides to become something more, he's gotta get a lot more K's and/or ground balls. Kelly had a 50.6% GB rate last year.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 12:40:12 GMT -5
Like I'm one of the very few posters that hasn't blamed Cora for anything, and I haven't made one comment saying the season is over. The bullpen is a huge question mark. I remember when you blamed the umpire when Kelly literally couldn't hit a barn door yesterday. I don't know why you go out of your way to give snark. Maddox would be a big boost for this club. I think you're overrating Maddox. His xFIP was 4.97 last year. Kelly's was 4.07. Maddox only had a 26% GB rate and a 3.3 HR/FB% and a 100% LOB%. Maddox could be decent, but he was pretty lucky last year. He's not going to change this team a lot, but he's good depth to have. He attacks and he has good stuff. I like him. The jury is out, but I can honestly see the Sox having to turn to him at some point because they don't have enough guys they can rely on. It's either that or the ghost of Thornburg needs to show itself come June.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 30, 2018 12:41:05 GMT -5
Watch, in game 3 or so, Kelly will strike out the side and Barnes will give up bloop hits and walk 2 and everyone will declare Kelly the new 8th inning guy. I remember in 1986 after Dwight Evans led off the season with a HR, the Sox blew the game. My memory is hazy on this but in that game and the following game against the Tigers Sammy Stewart (the 2nd player on the 1986 to pass away), Bob Stanley, Joe Sambito, and Steve Crawford all contributed to blowing both games which led to manager John McNamara uttering his one clever line he had as manager, when he declared rookie Wes Gardner who had yet to pitch the new closer by default. As it was I don't think Gardner lasted more than 1 inning without getting injured for the season. The irony of course is that the guy who he was traded with to the Sox, Calvin Schiraldi, wound up as closer and he and that horrific bullpen cost them the World Series, with help from my least favorite manager. Anyways, it's human nature to declare that the guy who we haven't seen mess up or has gone the longest without messing up as the savior. Seriously though, the bullpen is a concern to me. I have no idea how the pen did so well last year. I always felt like they were way over their heads last year and bound for serious regression. I hope Kimbrel is healthy and dominating all season as last year because if he's not it's scary to think what the bullpen looks like without him, with nobody you can really trust.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2018 12:41:29 GMT -5
I think you're overrating Maddox. His xFIP was 4.97 last year. Kelly's was 4.07. Maddox only had a 26% GB rate and a 3.3 HR/FB% and a 100% LOB%. Maddox could be decent, but he was pretty lucky last year. He's not going to change this team a lot, but he's good depth to have. He attacks and he has good stuff. I like him. The jury is out, but I can honestly see the Sox having to turn to him at some point because they don't have enough guys they can rely on. It's either that or the ghost of Thornburg needs to show itself come June. I think Carson Smith is going to be just fine in the setup role.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 30, 2018 12:43:28 GMT -5
I think you're overrating Maddox. His xFIP was 4.97 last year. Kelly's was 4.07. Maddox only had a 26% GB rate and a 3.3 HR/FB% and a 100% LOB%. Maddox could be decent, but he was pretty lucky last year. He's not going to change this team a lot, but he's good depth to have. He attacks and he has good stuff. I like him. The jury is out, but I can honestly see the Sox having to turn to him at some point because they don't have enough guys they can rely on. It's either that or the ghost of Thornburg needs to show itself come June. I agree with JimEd. I doubt Maddox magically found the formula to throw consistent strikes in the majors that he couldn't do in a longer sample size in the minors. I think at best Maddox is the 6th or 7th guy in a bullpen. I think the pen will be scary. Good thing the Sox have a strong lineup this year and a good starting staff.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2018 12:45:55 GMT -5
He attacks and he has good stuff. I like him. The jury is out, but I can honestly see the Sox having to turn to him at some point because they don't have enough guys they can rely on. It's either that or the ghost of Thornburg needs to show itself come June. I agree with JimEd. I doubt Maddox magically found the formula to throw consistent strikes in the majors that he couldn't do in a longer sample size in the minors. I think at best Maddox is the 6th or 7th guy in a bullpen. I think the pen will be scary. Good thing the Sox have a strong lineup this year and a good starting staff. I'm not worried about the control as much as the home runs. He's an extreme fly ball pitcher who doesn't strike out nearly enough guys to be an extreme fly ball pitcher.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2018 12:47:52 GMT -5
Watch, in game 3 or so, Kelly will strike out the side and Barnes will give up bloop hits and walk 2 and everyone will declare Kelly the new 8th inning guy. I remember in 1986 after Dwight Evans led off the season with a HR, the Sox blew the game. My memory is hazy on this but in that game and the following game against the Tigers Sammy Stewart (the 2nd player on the 1986 to pass away), Bob Stanley, Joe Sambito, and Steve Crawford all contributed to blowing both games which led to manager John McNamara uttering his one clever line he had as manager, when he declared rookie Wes Gardner who had yet to pitch the new closer by default. As it was I don't think Gardner lasted more than 1 inning without getting injured for the season. The irony of course is that the guy who he was traded with to the Sox, Calvin Schiraldi, wound up as closer and he and that horrific bullpen cost them the World Series, with help from my least favorite manager. Anyways, it's human nature to declare that the guy who we haven't seen mess up or has gone the longest without messing up as the savior. Seriously though, the bullpen is a concern to me. I have no idea how the pen did so well last year. I always felt like they were way over their heads last year and bound for serious regression. I hope Kimbrel is healthy and dominating all season as last year because if he's not it's scary to think what the bullpen looks like without him, with nobody you can really trust. It's almost funny to compare the bullpens of these two teams. I think anyone in the current bullpen could have closed for the 86 team and Bob Stanley probably wouldn't be above AA. I realize that doesn't mean much because of the extreme emphasis on having elite bullpens on every team. Schiraldi actually was pretty good, but he obviously never recovered from the emotional trauma of that World Series. It's also kind of amazing that they used Tim Lollar and Sammy Stewart as long as they did because they were so incredibly awful.
|
|
|
Post by ramireja on Mar 30, 2018 13:00:42 GMT -5
One fun thing about Joe Kelly is that he has 560 major league innings over seven seasons and there are such wildly different views on whether he's any good. I agree. I think the problem is that he's neither good nor is he....not good. I think people feel like they have to pick a side but the reality is that he's somewhere in the middle. My friend summed it up pretty well via a text this morning: "Joe Kelly is Joe Kelly. Sometimes he has some shaky outings and then he goes on a run for a month with good stuff." He will probably be pretty valuable to our team this year, and I for one welcome him on our bullpen. The Yankees have set the bar very high in terms of bullpen quality, but the reality of the situation is that there aren't other teams that have 4 closer-type options in your bullpen.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Mar 30, 2018 13:08:01 GMT -5
He attacks and he has good stuff. I like him. The jury is out, but I can honestly see the Sox having to turn to him at some point because they don't have enough guys they can rely on. It's either that or the ghost of Thornburg needs to show itself come June. I think Carson Smith is going to be just fine in the setup role. I was actually surprised that Smith didn't come out to start the 8th after Barnes got the 7th. I guess Cora was initially thinking of using him for the 9th, but I'm a big proponent of winning the game at hand. Such us life. Get em today.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 30, 2018 13:08:44 GMT -5
I remember in 1986 after Dwight Evans led off the season with a HR, the Sox blew the game. My memory is hazy on this but in that game and the following game against the Tigers Sammy Stewart (the 2nd player on the 1986 to pass away), Bob Stanley, Joe Sambito, and Steve Crawford all contributed to blowing both games which led to manager John McNamara uttering his one clever line he had as manager, when he declared rookie Wes Gardner who had yet to pitch the new closer by default. As it was I don't think Gardner lasted more than 1 inning without getting injured for the season. The irony of course is that the guy who he was traded with to the Sox, Calvin Schiraldi, wound up as closer and he and that horrific bullpen cost them the World Series, with help from my least favorite manager. Anyways, it's human nature to declare that the guy who we haven't seen mess up or has gone the longest without messing up as the savior. Seriously though, the bullpen is a concern to me. I have no idea how the pen did so well last year. I always felt like they were way over their heads last year and bound for serious regression. I hope Kimbrel is healthy and dominating all season as last year because if he's not it's scary to think what the bullpen looks like without him, with nobody you can really trust. It's almost funny to compare the bullpens of these two teams. I think anyone in the current bullpen could have closed for the 86 team and Bob Stanley probably wouldn't be above AA. I realize that doesn't mean much because of the extreme emphasis on having elite bullpens on every team. Schiraldi actually was pretty good, but he obviously never recovered from the emotional trauma of that World Series. It's also kind of amazing that they used Tim Lollar and Sammy Stewart as long as they did because they were so incredibly awful. I'm not really comparing the bullpens as much as the reaction of let's default to whoever has gone the longest without messing up or we've never seen mess up, which Wes Gardner represented to McNamara at the time, which was about as humorous as that guy got. Tim Lollar, in my almost 40 years of fandom, was about the biggest torch I've seen them have in that bullpen - or at least torch that somehow kept staying on the roster. The guy was actually a better hitter than he was a pitcher or at least I think he was. He got a hit while for the Red Sox as a pinch-hitter, yet I don't recall him ever getting anybody out, although the stats don't agree with me there. And to be fair to Stanley, he had been a pretty solid pitcher from 1977 - 1983, but he was batting practice by 86. No this team's pen won't be that bad.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 30, 2018 13:47:12 GMT -5
None of this surprises me, especially in the heat of the moment, but man people are harsh with their criticisms of Cora. It’s the guys first game. Great managers aren’t perfect, especially from day one. Great managers/coaches/players all make adjustments. Great managers make those adjustments and manage their people. Let’s see how he responds. If he keeps making the same mistakes with the same people over and over then there’s a problem. If not, then there isn’t. The “we’ve seen Joe Kelley suck for 3 years” excuse, works when you’re some idiot sitting on your couch but the new manager can’t walk in with that attitude of prejudging his players if he wants to have the respect of them. Maybe they talked about this stuff this Spring and tried to work on how to regain yourself after losing a couple hitters... if they did and the first game the situation comes up and you give him the hook then you’re a scared panicked manager. Point is you don’t know crap on day one... sit back and watch. You hit the nail on the head. It was Cora's first day on the job in the regular season .........and it showed. First day as a manager and already making rookie mistakes. We were led to believe that things would be different. But what's different about failing to bring in your best pitcher with the game on the line? I hope he improves. We already discussed why Cora didn’t bring in Kimbrel in the 8th. It wasn’t on the table. Wasn’t going to happen - decided ahead of time because of his short spring.
|
|
|
Post by patford on Mar 30, 2018 14:12:00 GMT -5
One fun thing about Joe Kelly is that he has 560 major league innings over seven seasons and there are such wildly different views on whether he's any good. I agree. I think the problem is that he's neither good nor is he....not good. I think people feel like they have to pick a side but the reality is that he's somewhere in the middle. My friend summed it up pretty well via a text this morning: "Joe Kelly is Joe Kelly. Sometimes he has some shaky outings and then he goes on a run for a month with good stuff." He will probably be pretty valuable to our team this year, and I for one welcome him on our bullpen. The Yankees have set the bar very high in terms of bullpen quality, but the reality of the situation is that there aren't other teams that have 4 closer-type options in your bullpen. The problem is he is either really good or really bad. He's a short leash guy. I think a manager almost has to have someone else warming up when Kelly enters a game. You can usually tell right away. When he is off he can't throw strikes.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,534
|
Post by radiohix on Mar 30, 2018 14:23:13 GMT -5
![](https://image.ibb.co/mjK5n7/DEVERS.png)
You're not supposed to hit the crap out of Archer's well excuted sliders like that! AND HE's 21 YEARS OLD! Devers is supremly gifted as a hitter! Let's enjoy watching him embrass greatness.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Mar 30, 2018 17:01:32 GMT -5
He attacks and he has good stuff. I like him. The jury is out, but I can honestly see the Sox having to turn to him at some point because they don't have enough guys they can rely on. It's either that or the ghost of Thornburg needs to show itself come June. I agree with JimEd. I doubt Maddox magically found the formula to throw consistent strikes in the majors that he couldn't do in a longer sample size in the minors. I think at best Maddox is the 6th or 7th guy in a bullpen. I think the pen will be scary. Good thing the Sox have a strong lineup this year and a good starting staff. Maddox has a history of excellent control in the lower minors even as a starter. He took a bit of a step back in AA/AAA once permanently in the ‘pen, but his performance in the majors last year wasn’t out of nowhere.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 18:14:41 GMT -5
Snell is at 97 and 98 mph with his fastball. Since when has he been that kind of a hard thrower?!!!
|
|
|
Post by Coreno on Mar 30, 2018 18:15:23 GMT -5
As game 2 gets underway, I'll give my hot take from yesterday after catching the replay this evening. Smith was worse than Kelly. Kelly was actually in and around the zone quite a bit, and found himself with a handful of 2 strike counts, just couldn't put guys away and it got away from him. Smith didn't have great command of his slider yesterday and was yanking a ton of pitches.
|
|
|
Post by chrisfromnc on Mar 30, 2018 18:18:03 GMT -5
Snell is at 97 and 98 mph with his fastball. Since when has he been that kind of a hard thrower?!!! He looked really good that inning.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 18:21:05 GMT -5
Snell is at 97 and 98 mph with his fastball. Since when has he been that kind of a hard thrower?!!! He looked really good that inning. Looked like a young Scott Kazmir.
|
|
|
Post by 75tillnow on Mar 30, 2018 18:21:28 GMT -5
So top three batters for the Sox so far this season 1-15. Not good. It'll change.
|
|
|
Post by chrisfromnc on Mar 30, 2018 18:25:21 GMT -5
Wow, Price more than matched Snell’s inning with a 10 pitch effort in the first. Please let that be a harbinger of things to come.
|
|
|
Post by Coreno on Mar 30, 2018 18:26:03 GMT -5
Let the "David Price is actually really good and everyone forgot" tour commence
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Mar 30, 2018 18:30:03 GMT -5
Jesus Snell looks unhittable. Better luck through the second time of the batting order, I guess.
|
|
|
Post by chrisfromnc on Mar 30, 2018 18:35:57 GMT -5
Jesus Snell looks unhittable. Better luck through the second time of the batting order, I guess. I sarcastically said he would scatter three hits over eight. The entire purpose of that was to prevent him from doing that. Granted, it’s very early but I apparently suck at trying to reverse jinx the opposing team.
|
|
|