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5/17-5/20 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 18, 2018 21:58:42 GMT -5
Cora already has said that he isn't considering moving Pomeranz off the rotation yet. He also denied any injury concerns. So annoying. Let's watch this happen a third time. Let's watch Pomeranz throw 80 mph and walk people with 2 pitches.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 19, 2018 7:13:27 GMT -5
All teams go through ups and downs - at the end of the year, successful teams are - what? - 25 -30 games over .500? So there is nothing unusual about these types of losses....except...it is frustrating to watch your favorite, talented team go .500 for an extended stretch. It's reality time - will be interesting to see how they play their way out of the various funks, scufflings, bad base running decisions, and play up to what appears to be their talent level.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 19, 2018 7:32:26 GMT -5
All teams go through ups and downs - at the end of the year, successful teams are - what? - 25 -30 games over .500? So there is nothing unusual about these types of losses....except...it is frustrating to watch your favorite, talented team go .500 for an extended stretch. It's reality time - will be interesting to see how they play their way out of the various funks, scufflings, bad base running decisions, and play up to what appears to be their talent level. Pomeranz isn't talented right now, so it doesn't surprise me to see him get beat by untalented teams. The Sox are waiting to pull the plug on him in the rotation because of last year (Pomeranz also started bad last year). I think that's a mistake because Pomeranz is significantly worse this year due to the velocity drop.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 19, 2018 7:58:05 GMT -5
All teams go through ups and downs - at the end of the year, successful teams are - what? - 25 -30 games over .500? So there is nothing unusual about these types of losses....except...it is frustrating to watch your favorite, talented team go .500 for an extended stretch. It's reality time - will be interesting to see how they play their way out of the various funks, scufflings, bad base running decisions, and play up to what appears to be their talent level. Pomeranz isn't talented right now, so it doesn't surprise me to see him get beat by untalented teams. The Sox are waiting to pull the plug on him in the rotation because of last year (Pomeranz also started bad last year). I think that's a mistake because Pomeranz is significantly worse this year due to the velocity drop. It's a rubik's cube, isn't it...Pomeranz is nowhere near what he can - should? - be...Price looks to be fixed, but can it continue? ERod is bedeviled by blowing up an inning. Is Porcello trending back to bad Porcello? Which leaves Sale. And Kimbrel....and lots of ifs. Offense - Fine JD and Mookie and Xander, an improving Beni, a slumping Hanley, an overmatched Nunez, JBJ and the catchers, and Raffi figuring it out. We get to see how fast Cora can adjust and get the most out of this complicated, promising team. Pedey coming back soon is really important.
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Post by jclmontana on May 19, 2018 9:53:51 GMT -5
LOL Swihart isn't "good enough" to catch anyone, but yet here he is catching a knuckle ball. #Redsoxlogic I get that this was pure snark, but I do think Swihart catching Wright is interesting. Eric put forth the notion that game calling is keeping Swihart from being a viable catcher, perhaps him being paired with Wright is connected. I know Wright throws other pitches besides the knuckleball--fourseam, sinker, change and curve--but those other pitches are basically show-me pitches or desperate-to-get-a-strike pitches, the knuckler is thrown almost all the time. There are, of course, other potential reasons why Swihart was catching Swihart: Wright doesn't have the standing with Cora to dictate who catches him, they might be trying to shop him, that Swihart is better at catching knucklers than the other two, they are trying to send a message to media, fans, and the players, or, whatever. I think Vasquez and Leon getting playing time over Swihart speaks to how flawed Swihart is as a catcher, but that doesn't mean that Swihart has no catching skills. I would really like to know the specific reason why Swihart is not playing.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 19, 2018 10:00:22 GMT -5
All teams go through ups and downs - at the end of the year, successful teams are - what? - 25 -30 games over .500? So there is nothing unusual about these types of losses....except...it is frustrating to watch your favorite, talented team go .500 for an extended stretch. It's reality time - will be interesting to see how they play their way out of the various funks, scufflings, bad base running decisions, and play up to what appears to be their talent level. Pomeranz isn't talented right now, so it doesn't surprise me to see him get beat by untalented teams. The Sox are waiting to pull the plug on him in the rotation because of last year (Pomeranz also started bad last year). I think that's a mistake because Pomeranz is significantly worse this year due to the velocity drop. Pomeranz not pitching well right now is a different point than him not being talented. Price just got through scuffling, ERod is inconsistent, Porcello had some bad starts, even Sale has gotten hit around more than last year. It is definitely a fair question about his role on the staff, but I don't think the change will come any time soon. They are going to give him some rope here.
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Post by Guidas on May 19, 2018 10:15:56 GMT -5
LOL Swihart isn't "good enough" to catch anyone, but yet here he is catching a knuckle ball. #Redsoxlogic I get that this was pure snark, but I do think Swihart catching Wright is interesting. Eric put forth the notion that game calling is keeping Swihart from being a viable catcher, perhaps him being paired with Wright is connected. I know Wright throws other pitches besides the knuckleball--fourseam, sinker, change and curve--but those other pitches are basically show-me pitches or desperate-to-get-a-strike pitches, the knuckler is thrown almost all the time. There are, of course, other potential reasons why Swihart was catching Swihart: Wright doesn't have the standing with Cora to dictate who catches him, they might be trying to shop him, that Swihart is better at catching knucklers than the other two, they are trying to send a message to media, fans, and the players, or, whatever. I think Vasquez and Leon getting playing time over Swihart speaks to how flawed Swihart is as a catcher, but that doesn't mean that Swihart has no catching skills. I would really like to know the specific reason why Swihart is not playing. If that is truly the case then pitches can be called from the bench, which is done all the time in college and minors. In fact, given advanced metrics, I would be in favor of doing this for all the Sox catchers, especially as situations develop during the game (dude, don't start Machado off with a fast ball like you did the last two times he came up). If the pitcher wants to shake the catcher off then the catcher can just run through the remain pitches. This is not hard, and if it's truly keeping him from being behind the plate it's a devotion to old school/unwritten rules BS and should be rectified immediately.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,962
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Post by ericmvan on May 19, 2018 10:47:35 GMT -5
Here is Win Probability Added (unadjusted for leverage) per 150 scheduled games, first for the 17-2 start, then for the 13-13 stretch we're mired in, and then, the difference between them. This is not adjusted for DL stints; if you do that, Xander was 10.00 and then 1.14, Holt was -0.87 and then 12.00. Name Hot/150 Ramirez 10.03 Benintendi 8.45 Kimbrel 8.13 Betts 7.34 Sale 6.55 Price 5.92 Bogaerts 4.74 Porcello 4.66 Velazquez 4.26 Hembree 3.47 Poyner 2.84 Kelly 2.45 Moreland 2.37 Lin 0.95 Walden 0.87 Johnson 0.79 Rodriguez 0.63 Barnes 0.16 Devers 0.08 Swihart 0.00 Wright 0.00 Bradley -0.08 Holt -0.87 Nunez -0.87 Pomeranz -0.87 Leon -1.11 Martinez -1.42 Vazquez -2.53 Smith -6.71
Name Meh/150 Martinez 9.17 Betts 6.92 Sale 5.02 Kelly 4.79 Holt 4.62 Barnes 4.10 Benintendi 2.94 Moreland 2.13 Kimbrel 2.02 Velazquez 2.02 Leon 1.67 Smith 1.67 Bogaerts 0.92 Wright 0.40 Walden 0.00 Poyner -0.63 Porcello -1.50 Price -1.79 Rodriguez -1.79 Pomeranz -2.42 Hembree -3.00 Swihart -3.00 Nunez -3.06 Lin -3.12 Ramirez -4.04 Johnson -4.15 Devers -6.40 Bradley -6.46 Vazquez -7.10
Name Diff/150 Martinez 10.59 Smith 8.38 Holt 5.48 Barnes 3.94 Leon 2.78 Kelly 2.34 Wright 0.40 Moreland -0.23 Betts -0.42 Walden -0.87 Sale -1.53 Pomeranz -1.55 Nunez -2.19 Velazquez -2.24 Rodriguez -2.42 Swihart -3.00 Poyner -3.48 Bogaerts -3.81 Lin -4.06 Vazquez -4.57 Johnson -4.94 Benintendi -5.51 Kimbrel -6.11 Porcello -6.16 Bradley -6.38 Hembree -6.47 Devers -6.48 Price -7.71 Ramirez -14.06
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 19, 2018 11:30:20 GMT -5
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Post by m1keyboots on May 19, 2018 12:55:51 GMT -5
Mookie is the man. I think with Trout actually playing good defense in center this year is what keepa him above Mooks with it being a more premium position overall. The things he does well MB is doing better however, except for the walks of course. Hopefully Mookie keeps it up when Trout starts mashing again. Either way what's important is hopefully mooks signs a trout-like extension. Won't happen at that price tho :/ Mookie doesn't get his due. This is year 4 of really good or elite play, and they barely discuss him in favor of Lindor or Albies. God forbid Aaron Judge hit a homerun.
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2018 13:03:06 GMT -5
Just look at their career stats. Mookie is now in the same conversation in a small sample this year, but Trout completely demolishes him for their careers. If Mookie were just a Hall of Famer at this point, they'd have to create a new Hall of Fame for Trout just for him. Trout is 26 years old and has 57.9 fWAR. Mookie is 25 years old and has 23.6 fWAR.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 19, 2018 13:08:07 GMT -5
Just look at their career stats. Mookie is now in the same conversation in a small sample this year, but Trout completely demolishes him for their careers. If Mookie were just a Hall of Famer at this point, they'd have to create a new Hall of Fame for Trout just for him. Trout is 26 years old and has 57.9 fWAR. Mookie is 25 years old and has 23.6 fWAR. I don't dispute that at all - but for this particular season, which is what the article was referring to, there simply isn't much separation between them.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 19, 2018 13:18:13 GMT -5
When do they usually cancel the game? Supposed to rain until 11...
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Post by jimed14 on May 19, 2018 14:10:19 GMT -5
Just look at their career stats. Mookie is now in the same conversation in a small sample this year, but Trout completely demolishes him for their careers. If Mookie were just a Hall of Famer at this point, they'd have to create a new Hall of Fame for Trout just for him. Trout is 26 years old and has 57.9 fWAR. Mookie is 25 years old and has 23.6 fWAR. I don't dispute that at all - but for this particular season, which is what the article was referring to, there simply isn't much separation between them. I think the article probably rightfully assumes that Mookie will come back to earth a little and Trout is just being Trout again.
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Post by Guidas on May 19, 2018 14:19:04 GMT -5
Just look at their career stats. Mookie is now in the same conversation in a small sample this year, but Trout completely demolishes him for their careers. If Mookie were just a Hall of Famer at this point, they'd have to create a new Hall of Fame for Trout just for him. Trout is 26 years old and has 57.9 fWAR. Mookie is 25 years old and has 23.6 fWAR. Yes, there really is no comparison. I would take Trout in a second over any MLB player in the game.
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Post by incandenza on May 19, 2018 14:31:50 GMT -5
I don't dispute that at all - but for this particular season, which is what the article was referring to, there simply isn't much separation between them. I think the article probably rightfully assumes that Mookie will come back to earth a little and Trout is just being Trout again. At the risk of being a little bit niggly about this... either the article is saying that Trout is on pace to have the greatest season ever, or that he can be projected to have the greatest season ever. If it's that he's on pace, then you'd have to put Mookie in the same discussion, especially going by fWAR, where he leads Trout 3.5-3.0, despite having played in four fewer games. (Without checking the numbers, I'd imagine a number of players over the years have been on pace to have the best season ever after 45 games.) If it's that he can be projected to have the greatest season ever... well, then the article's wrong. Again going by fWAR, he projects to end up at ~9 WAR. In other words, if you're discounting Betts' performance by saying he'll come back to earth a little, you have to do the same for Trout. But the astonishing thing about Trout is that he does this every season. He had 7 WAR last year despite missing a third of the season. I take the "on pace to have the best season ever" thing as a hook to say that Trout is really, really good. If you wanted to write an article about how Mookie is really, really good, you might frame it as "Betts is having such a good year that he's as good as Mike Trout."
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Post by wildsox on May 19, 2018 15:37:11 GMT -5
I’m a little surprised JBJ is back in the lineup today. He couldn’t have looked any worse last night. They certainly are giving him every opportunity to snap out of it
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 19, 2018 18:27:57 GMT -5
Hanley has cooled way off.
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bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
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Post by bosox on May 19, 2018 18:30:45 GMT -5
Hanley has cooled way off. Righthander on the mound, Hanley played yesterday, Moreland's hot - why not start Moreland tonight.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 19, 2018 18:44:13 GMT -5
Hanley has cooled way off. Righthander on the mound, Hanley played yesterday, Moreland's hot - why not start Moreland tonight. I am comparing stats. What the hell is wrong with Cora ?
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Post by wildsox on May 19, 2018 18:53:01 GMT -5
Righthander on the mound, Hanley played yesterday, Moreland's hot - why not start Moreland tonight. I am comparing stats. What the hell is wrong with Cora ? Or how about start them both and sit Bradley who just struck out again on fastballs down the middle
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,518
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Post by radiohix on May 19, 2018 19:15:01 GMT -5
The worst thing about JBJ slump is that they'll keep trotting replacement Hanley Ramirez (54 wRC+ for May before tonight's game) in there and triggering his option for next year.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 19, 2018 19:38:08 GMT -5
Here's hoping Sandy can win the starting job outright.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 19, 2018 19:38:51 GMT -5
The worst thing about JBJ slump is that they'll keep trotting replacement Hanley Ramirez (54 wRC+ for May before tonight's game) in there and triggering his option for next year. not only trot him out...but in the 3 hole
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 19, 2018 19:42:00 GMT -5
Mookie........Betts your ass !!!
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