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6/26/-6/28 Red Sox vs. Angels Series Thread
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 28, 2018 14:36:36 GMT -5
Ziegler is the only one I can really think of that worked out well. And that wasn’t a high profile trade. I’d be happy with a low risk move like that, I’m just not a fan of these high profile reliever trade deadline acquisitions, which, from what I’ve seen, rarely work out well for the acquiring team, and even more rarely work out well for the Red Sox. I guess it depends on your comfort level with Joe Kelly or Matt Barnes coming into key spots in playoff games versus New York or Houston. I'm not as comfortable as you are I suppose with those two as the only real options you have in the 6th or 7th inning. Unless Lakins or Buttrey is the next Andrew Miller and soon, I wouldn't get overly concerned. I guess that I don't see middle relievers as rare commodities. Failed starters seem to find their way to promising middle relievers. That's why, although I don't particularly want to deal some of these guys, I can understand the reasoning for wanting to improve the high leverage depth of the bullpen. So while I'm sure I'll scream bloody murder when the Sox give up these middle relief types (I admit - I get attached too) in an inevitable deal for a high leverage reliever, it does make sense for the Sox to upgrade the pen. Unless you're confident that Kelly and Barnes are all you need to bridge to Kimbrel in the biggest games of the year. I think opinions will differ on the subject.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jun 28, 2018 14:56:52 GMT -5
Always thought Sprowl was the main figure, but pete may have been. he was barely an AA pitcher then after dominating here at Winter haven. A frightening figure on the mound for such a friendly guy who had a nasty sinker and FB that rarely cracked 90mph.
Kind of a trivia.. His roomies here were future MLB players Al Nipper, Richie Gedman and another guy really think had a chance had he not blown out his shoulder in Danny Wepner.
Was a great summer that year...
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2018 14:59:55 GMT -5
Guys like Joakim Soria, Addison Reed, and Brad Brach should come fairly cheaply. Don't know why people think it's going to take a arm and a leg to get these type of arms.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 28, 2018 15:01:17 GMT -5
We already experimented with Reed.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 28, 2018 15:31:11 GMT -5
Guys like Joakim Soria, Addison Reed, and Brad Brach should come fairly cheaply. Don't know why people think it's going to take a arm and a leg to get these type of arms. I guess I'm a little confused. Maybe it's context. But if you're going to get a high leverage reliever, a rental, you still have to give up something of value, no? I mean you're not giving up the next Andrew Benintendi. You're not giving up anybody that resembles a top to mid-tier starter from the minors. I would think you're either giving up a lottery ticket - somebody like a Bautista that has a nice arm, but you don't know if the control will ever come or you give up a middle relief type, which the Sox have a lot of seemingly because they lack just about everywhere else in the system. Ty Buttrey, for example. I have no major desire to see him get dealt, but I kind of expect it if they want to upgrade their bullpen, which I think needs upgrading - not because it's bad, but because when you compare it against NYY or Houston, it's not quite as deep or good, and those are the teams you'd expect to face in the ALDS or ALCS. So unless you're ready to try him out as a high leverage option, then he won't be as useful this season as an upgrade would be. Don't want to lose a Buttrey (and maybe they don't) but aren't guys like Buttrey the easiest to replenish? If there's such a thing as the defensive spectrum, isn't there a pitching hierarchy that goes something like this? Top of the rotation starter -> Middle rotation starter -> Closer .> High Leverage Middle Reliever -> Backend starter -> Low leverage middle reliever -> LOOGY Again not saying I love drawing from the reliever depth, but I think at some point it gets hit. My first preference is to see guys like Johnston, Swihart, and Hembree go (and Nunez at this point, too). For what the Sox are going for they don't need to part with T.O.R starter, Mid rotation starter (do the Sox even develop starters?!), or potential closers, which is good because they really don't have them.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2018 16:01:22 GMT -5
The Addison Reed experiment was a good one. It worked out great last year.
To champs post, yeah I think Buttrey is the main to a deal for a reliever. I don't think it'll take much beyond that. There are literally 7-9 options on the market right now for a high leverage bullpen arm. The Sox could literally go to 5 or 6 teams with middling offers and still come away with one of these arms.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 28, 2018 16:05:10 GMT -5
I also imagine that our draft class and whatever international haul we get on July 2nd should go a long way to replenishing the farm system.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 28, 2018 16:12:25 GMT -5
On a related note, I'm excited about whatever prospects the Yankees will give up buying at the deadline.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2018 16:21:22 GMT -5
On a related note, I'm excited about whatever prospects the Yankees will give up buying at the deadline. I just hope people stay away from the ledge when they start talking to the Mets about Thor and deGrom.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2018 16:24:44 GMT -5
The Addison Reed experiment was a good one. It worked out great last year. To champs post, yeah I think Buttrey is the main to a deal for a reliever. I don't think it'll take much beyond that. There are literally 7-9 options on the market right now for a high leverage bullpen arm. The Sox could literally go to 5 or 6 teams with middling offers and still come away with one of these arms. Reed was mediocre in the regular season and in the post season. Maddox was better than he was last year. That's the volatility of relief pitchers. When you're only talking about 20-25 innings, anything can happen. I'd rather keep Buttrey and see if he could do something similar to what Maddox did.
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Post by daltonjones on Jun 28, 2018 16:26:47 GMT -5
This 1990 rehash might get booted to its own thread. I remember that Scott Cooper was by no means a real All-Star. However, our 1st base depth went something like Quintana, Vaughn, Plantier. Which seemed pretty good at the time. Andersen didn't contribute much on the field, but I thought he was a boost to morale when the team was getting "woolly." Though I know that many here abhor qualitative factors.
Also knew that a few people were upset at the time, but for me it did not scream obviously totally stupid like say, Sparky Lyle for Danny Cater.
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Post by patford on Jun 28, 2018 16:38:59 GMT -5
I would not mind finding out if Koji has anything left.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 28, 2018 16:39:27 GMT -5
On a related note, I'm excited about whatever prospects the Yankees will give up buying at the deadline. I just hope people stay away from the ledge when they start talking to the Mets about Thor and deGrom. I'd probably laugh at whatever they paid, mutter something about conspiracy theories if they got away with underpaying (as they always seem to do in my biased echo chamber) and then laugh again when they don't win the World Series. I'll only go to the ledge if it all works out for them in the end. They could be the favorite on paper but there are a few other good teams out there and anything can happen in the postseason. It's one thing to say if the Yankees will win vs. another team, but it's another thing to say if the Yankees will win over ALL of the other teams.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 28, 2018 16:42:08 GMT -5
Seems like there is no current update on Jake Jewell, the pitcher who sustained the nasty looking ankle injury trying to cover home in last night's game - anyone else been able to find a recent update? Appears to be a fractured fibula and out for the season.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 28, 2018 17:01:08 GMT -5
Seems like there is no current update on Jake Jewell, the pitcher who sustained the nasty looking ankle injury trying to cover home in last night's game - anyone else been able to find a recent update? Appears to be a fractured fibula and out for the season. Ouch....really too bad that happened to him. Looked worse, actually - almost Gordon Haywood-esque. But still, bad enough. Thanks for providing an answer!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2018 17:13:03 GMT -5
The Addison Reed experiment was a good one. It worked out great last year. To champs post, yeah I think Buttrey is the main to a deal for a reliever. I don't think it'll take much beyond that. There are literally 7-9 options on the market right now for a high leverage bullpen arm. The Sox could literally go to 5 or 6 teams with middling offers and still come away with one of these arms. Reed was mediocre in the regular season and in the post season. Maddox was better than he was last year. That's the volatility of relief pitchers. When you're only talking about 20-25 innings, anything can happen. I'd rather keep Buttrey and see if he could do something similar to what Maddox did. Reed was really good for big stretches in the second half last year. Sure he was homerun prone for 3 or 4 games during that stretch, bur overall he was really good and helped a lot during the stretch last year. Either way, I don't see Dombrowski standing pat with no move made in the bullpen at the very least. I just hope he identifies and targets the right guy in the bullpen this year because again, there are so many options available.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2018 17:20:28 GMT -5
Reed was mediocre in the regular season and in the post season. Maddox was better than he was last year. That's the volatility of relief pitchers. When you're only talking about 20-25 innings, anything can happen. I'd rather keep Buttrey and see if he could do something similar to what Maddox did. Reed was really good for big stretches in the second half last year. Sure he was homerun prone for 3 or 4 games during that stretch, bur overall he was really good and helped a lot during the stretch last year. Either way, I don't see Dombrowski standing pat with no move made in the bullpen at the very least. I just hope he identifies and targets the right guy in the bullpen this year because again, there are so many options available. Sounds exactly like Barnes and Kelly. Really good for long stretches and a few bad games. I just don't see how Reed is much of an upgrade over anyone including Workman and Hembree. He's below replacement level this year and was exactly replacement level for the Red Sox last year. Plus he costs $8 million next year. His walks are way up and strikeouts way down. No thanks. I wouldn't take him for free because of that $8 million salary next season. Maybe he's suffering from all those 3 game streaks he pitched in last year.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 28, 2018 17:24:41 GMT -5
I just hope people stay away from the ledge when they start talking to the Mets about Thor and deGrom. I'd probably laugh at whatever they paid, mutter something about conspiracy theories if they got away with underpaying (as they always seem to do in my biased echo chamber) and then laugh again when they don't win the World Series. I'll only go to the ledge if it all works out for them in the end. They could be the favorite on paper but there are a few other good teams out there and anything can happen in the postseason. It's one thing to say if the Yankees will win vs. another team, but it's another thing to say if the Yankees will win over ALL of the other teams. The Steinbrenners will probably work out some deal unrelated to baseball with the Wilpons in exchange for a lower trade cost since the Wilpons only care about money and not their product on the field. 538 Baseball has the Yankees with a 14% chance for winning the WS and the Red Sox with a 12% chance.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2018 17:26:16 GMT -5
Reed was really good for big stretches in the second half last year. Sure he was homerun prone for 3 or 4 games during that stretch, bur overall he was really good and helped a lot during the stretch last year. Either way, I don't see Dombrowski standing pat with no move made in the bullpen at the very least. I just hope he identifies and targets the right guy in the bullpen this year because again, there are so many options available. Sounds exactly like Barnes and Kelly. Really good for long stretches and a few bad games. I just don't see how Reed is much of an upgrade over anyone including Workman and Hembree. He's below replacement level this year and was exactly replacement level for the Red Sox last year. Plus he costs $8 million next year. His walks are way up and strikeouts way down. No thanks. I wouldn't take him for free because of that $8 million salary next season. Maybe he's suffering from all those 3 game streaks he pitched in last year. Maybe Reed isn't the best option, but that's Dombrowski's job to identify that. Yeah that's not ideal, but the Yankees and Astros bullpen are a tad better than the Sox. The Sox should improve on that in a year where they're stacked in a lot of other places.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 28, 2018 17:27:35 GMT -5
Ziegler is the only one I can really think of that worked out well. And that wasn’t a high profile trade. I’d be happy with a low risk move like that, I’m just not a fan of these high profile reliever trade deadline acquisitions, which, from what I’ve seen, rarely work out well for the acquiring team, and even more rarely work out well for the Red Sox. I guess it depends on your comfort level with Joe Kelly or Matt Barnes coming into key spots in playoff games versus New York or Houston. I'm not as comfortable as you are I suppose with those two as the only real options you have in the 6th or 7th inning. Unless Lakins or Buttrey is the next Andrew Miller and soon, I wouldn't get overly concerned. I guess that I don't see middle relievers as rare commodities. Failed starters seem to find their way to promising middle relievers. That's why, although I don't particularly want to deal some of these guys, I can understand the reasoning for wanting to improve the high leverage depth of the bullpen. So while I'm sure I'll scream bloody murder when the Sox give up these middle relief types (I admit - I get attached too) in an inevitable deal for a high leverage reliever, it does make sense for the Sox to upgrade the pen. Unless you're confident that Kelly and Barnes are all you need to bridge to Kimbrel in the biggest games of the year. I think opinions will differ on the subject. I went to a lot of these games in the past that our acquisitions blew, including watching several horrible Gagne games live. A lot of these moves just havent worked out, not to mention their cost. My main memory of Reed is him blowing a game vs the Yanks. Melançon was terrible. Andrew Bailey. Etc.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2018 17:55:23 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the Sox get this game in tonight. Might be a thunderstorm coming during the game. It actually might turn out as a positive that tonight is a bullpen game.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jun 28, 2018 17:55:49 GMT -5
I went to a lot of these games in the past that our acquisitions blew, including watching several horrible Gagne games live. A lot of these moves just havent worked out, not to mention their cost. My main memory of Reed is him blowing a game vs the Yanks. Melançon was terrible. Andrew Bailey. Etc. Not going to lie, I tried for a while to get the "dirt" off of my screen reading your post.
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,818
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Post by atzar on Jun 28, 2018 18:17:23 GMT -5
Here's your daily "Jackie Bradley Jr is good at defense" reminder.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 28, 2018 18:18:30 GMT -5
Sweet !!!!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 28, 2018 18:23:14 GMT -5
JBJ, all day.
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