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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 30, 2018 23:21:23 GMT -5
I agree to definitely disagree about the percentages there. I don't disagree that giving up Buttrey overall is a big loss. Dombrowski isn't about value. Isn't about value? Considering he got a player worth 2.5 bwar and 1.8 million, this is a great value. Have you seen what other guys cost? I just don't get your take about value, you can't get a 2.5 war player and 1.8 million for nothing. Then we will agree to disagree about value then. The money didn't come out in the report yet when I said that. That certainly helps, especially if it keeps the Sox under the 237 mark.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 30, 2018 23:30:07 GMT -5
Isn't about value? Considering he got a player worth 2.5 bwar and 1.8 million, this is a great value. Have you seen what other guys cost? I just don't get your take about value, you can't get a 2.5 war player and 1.8 million for nothing. You two need to go grab a beer together somewhere. Can't we all just get along? We do. I agree with him a lot, we also disagree a lot lol. I'm not derailing the thread. Gave my opinion and I'm walking away. Edit- I like UMass's opinion a lot actually, especially on basketball and on drafts and stuff.
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Post by mannofsteele on Jul 30, 2018 23:35:36 GMT -5
Really a solid get for team defense. Also has picked up the bat lately. So the only guy in the trade going back that has some potential is Buttrey, however for a team envisioning a run at the WS, this is a solid solid move. Is it me or is Kinsler and Pedroia technically on the same team an oddity (perhaps 10 years ago).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 30, 2018 23:36:40 GMT -5
4 teamer:
Pearce and money, Eovaldi & Kinsler and money for a potential back of the rotation starter/middle reliever, a low A potential utility player and two high velocity relievers with command issues.
Anybody not do that ?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 30, 2018 23:37:21 GMT -5
I’m very pleased with the trade. A pair of 25 year old relief prospects doesn’t hurt. We still have Lakins waiting for a chance. I was worried we’d have to move someone like Chatham/Ockimey to upgrade Kinsler’s defense alone is enough to be excited. We’ve lost many outs at 2nd this year. Also, give DD credit including the Eovaldi trade too. Both good trades. Dombrowski did do a great job targeting the perfect players this deadline. Pearce, Eovaldi, and Kinsler are really perfect fits.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 30, 2018 23:39:14 GMT -5
It's probably been mentioned, but this definitely opens up for a Lakins promotion now in Pawtucket, which is also a wonderful thing.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 30, 2018 23:51:08 GMT -5
Just for refrence Nunez last year cost us Anderson and Santos. Nunez was worth .4 bwar at the time and it didn't include cash if I remember right. Anderson was a younger, higher upside guy, that was ranked higher than either player traded for Kinsler.
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Post by manfred on Jul 30, 2018 23:56:09 GMT -5
100% for this trade (have been in favor of all DD’s deals). Still... always bummed to lose the chance to see guys who might hit 100. Always fun.
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Post by Coreno on Jul 31, 2018 0:05:18 GMT -5
Just for refrence Nunez last year cost us Anderson and Santos. Nunez was worth .4 bwar at the time and it didn't include cash if I remember right. Anderson was a younger, higher upside guy, that was ranked higher than either player traded for Kinsler. This. They gave up less for Kinsler than either of the rental deals last year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2018 0:07:07 GMT -5
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Post by wildsox on Jul 31, 2018 0:08:28 GMT -5
I think having Lakins,Poyner and even Feltman as bullpen arms nearly ready makes this an easy trade to make.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 31, 2018 0:22:11 GMT -5
Nevermind guys like Workman and Maddox also. Reliever had to have been the deepest position in the system.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2018 0:27:07 GMT -5
Nevermind guys like Workman and Maddox also. Reliever had to have been the deepest position in the system. Yeah middle relief options are the one thing that the Sox have a boatload of.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 31, 2018 0:37:35 GMT -5
My money: the Sox stay under the cap and no more trades. I don't understand the Ziegler talk at all. Dombrowski is all about power arms and he's got a mess of them at this point what with Thornburg starting to show.
The Kinsler move makes a lot of sense with the question mark around Phillips. And this isn't the first time we've seen Nuñez shine at third. He passes the eyeball test, for me, as a very good fielder at the position. Bogaerts was the hitman on that twin killing, but Nuñez was his trusted accomplice.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2018 0:39:13 GMT -5
As far as the cap goes, I believe we are still under because the spreadsheet that had us at 235.5 included the full year ML minimum salary for a lot of players that weren't here for the year, Poyner, for example.
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Post by SALNotes on Jul 31, 2018 0:52:18 GMT -5
I agree with most above they traded from a position of strength and redundancy. And brought in a solid vet who should bring stability with the glove and lengthens the lineup. Great move
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2018 1:10:03 GMT -5
This is also a wise move from the Angels point of view. Although they didn't get a lot, the Sox are likely the last buyers on the market for a second baseman and the Sox had options (Dozier).
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2018 1:18:37 GMT -5
As far as I see it, when Devers is ready to return, the Sox will have 3 options:
1. Activate Devers, DFA Nunez or Pomeranz (most unlikely) 2. Option Velazquez or Holt (Velazquez makes more sense since Kinsler and Nunez don't play SS) 3. Rehab Devers for 4 or 5 days until they don't burn an option for Velazquez (by recalling him in Sept.)
3. Seems most logical.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 31, 2018 1:20:45 GMT -5
I thought the price was a little stiff until I read about the money. It's Buttrey for Kinsler, plus Jerez for $1.8M to prevent the draft pick from caving 10 places.
Nunez as a backup to Devers is actually a good player. And Holt's never been comfortable at 3B.
DDo is ruling July.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2018 1:28:48 GMT -5
I thought the price was a little stiff until I read about the money. It's Buttrey for Kinsler, plus Jerez for $1.8M to prevent the draft pick from caving 10 places. Nunez as a backup to Devers is actually a good player. And Holt's never been comfortable at 3B. DDo is ruling July.
That's how I looked at it on all those points. ADD: And for those that view $1.8 and 10 slots as roughly equal, consider that it's also 10 slots of slot money at the top which would handcuff the Sox from having a draft similar to this year. ADD2: I was busy at the time of the trade so, I learned about the money at the same time as seeing the trade.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 31, 2018 1:30:11 GMT -5
I thought the price was a little stiff until I read about the money. It's Buttrey for Kinsler, plus Jerez for $1.8M to prevent the draft pick from caving 10 places. My thoughts exactly.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 31, 2018 1:37:42 GMT -5
As far as I see it, when Devers is ready to return, the Sox will have 3 options: 1. Activate Devers, DFA Nunez (most unlikely) 2. Option Velazquez or Holt (Velazquez makes more sense since Kinsler and Nunez don't play SS) 3. Rehab Devers for 4 or 5 days until they don't burn an option for Velazquez (by recalling him in Sept.) 3. Seems most logical. Rather than letting Devers do more rehab then he needs, you can do option 2 but recall Velazquez just before his option burns, on August 27 (plus days of Devers rehab), and option Brasier. I'm guessing that they'll be able to recall him on 9/4, after the PawSox season ends, rather than waiting two more days to make it 10.
They're playing the Marlins and White Sox at the end of August and beginning of September. Brasier would miss the first game of the Braves series on Labor Day.
The more interesting dilemma will be if E-Rod is ready before 9/1. That may require sending Brasier down, too.
Of course, if any of the 12 pitchers gets hurt, Workman will be back up and he can be the designated optioned player (obscure 60's rule reference!) in either scenario.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 31, 2018 1:54:58 GMT -5
If you wanted to trade Jerez for international bonus money couldn't you get 1.5 to 2 million given past trades? There's value for a lot of teams in a guy like him, even if he's only a decent arm or left specialist. He's basically MLB ready for a bunch of crappy teams. International bonus money should be way more valuable than actual money to most clubs, certainly the Angles. So it kinda seems crazy it would take a player like him to eat 1.8 million. Especially when most players recently traded that were similar went for a lot more than a Buttrey type guy. Like a lot more. Wouldn't it be more like Buttrey/Chandler, then we agreed to Jerez instead of Chandler for 1.8 million?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2018 3:14:05 GMT -5
If you wanted to trade Jerez for international bonus money couldn't you get 1.5 to 2 million given past trades? There's value for a lot of teams in a guy like him, even if he's only a decent arm or left specialist. He's basically MLB ready for a bunch of crappy teams. International bonus money should be way more valuable than actual money to most clubs, certainly the Angles. So it kinda seems crazy it would take a player like him to eat 1.8 million. Especially when most players recently traded that were similar went for a lot more than a Buttrey type guy. Like a lot more. Wouldn't it be more like Buttrey/Chandler, then we agreed to Jerez instead of Chandler for 1.8 million? You assume the Angels had options. What other team is looking for a second baseman one day before the trade deadline ? ADD: It also assumes the Angels have players they want to sign but don't have the IFA money for.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2018 3:19:06 GMT -5
As far as I see it, when Devers is ready to return, the Sox will have 3 options: 1. Activate Devers, DFA Nunez (most unlikely) 2. Option Velazquez or Holt (Velazquez makes more sense since Kinsler and Nunez don't play SS) 3. Rehab Devers for 4 or 5 days until they don't burn an option for Velazquez (by recalling him in Sept.) 3. Seems most logical. Rather than letting Devers do more rehab then he needs, you can do option 2 but recall Velazquez just before his option burns, on August 27 (plus days of Devers rehab), and option Brasier. I'm guessing that they'll be able to recall him on 9/4, after the PawSox season ends, rather than waiting two more days to make it 10. They're playing the Marlins and White Sox at the end of August and beginning of September. Brasier would miss the first game of the Braves series on Labor Day. The more interesting dilemma will be if E-Rod is ready before 9/1. That may require sending Brasier down, too. Of course, if any of the 12 pitchers gets hurt, Workman will be back up and he can be the designated optioned player (obscure 60's rule reference!) in either scenario.
Of interest to me, I believe the deadline is after the Sox see what they have in Pomeranz.
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