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Post by bluechip on Feb 1, 2019 0:36:58 GMT -5
So Greg Holland signed for 3.25 million. That’s not a terrible deal. There are some decent, relievers left in that tier. I’d just like to add one of them, so as to improve the depth. You have a decent idea what Sergio Romo, Tony Sipp, or Alex Wilson is going to give you. Not counting on those guys to replace Kimbrel, but they’d have a role on this team.
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Post by sparkygian on Feb 1, 2019 9:10:12 GMT -5
Just noticed that we're up to 41 pages of talking about relievers other teams have signed. LOL Of course there's been a lot of discussion about hypotheticals dealing with the Red Sox bullpen, so it hasn't all been about other team's bullpens.
Anyways, it would be interesting to see what percentage of members believe DD is still secretly trying to re-sign Kimbrel, or really believe that DD is instead going to sign one of the other names that have been talked about that are still available. Seems like DD is on an whole other channel than most Sox fans. It's almost like he's not even interested in signing another reliever, and instead is trying to deal one of the catchers for a no-name reliever that has the peripherals that Bannister and others feel can be molded into another Brasier. DD sure has a knack for holding firm and doing it his way; I can't argue with that, especially after he's brought another championship to Boston.
I'm really beginning to believe that Dombrowski is not going to sign Kimbrel, even just for one year, and has been 100% forthright about not wanting to spend any significant amount of money on the bullpen. If so, then all the rumors on other MLB sites that I've read that talk about how the Sox have been talking to free agent relievers like Robertson, or Ottavino, or whoever else, basically are just pure rumors. Unless the 'talks' with these other relievers were extremely short, and not really serious inquiries at all. I can't believe that the Sox have ever been seriously considering any of the other firemen, like Robertson or Ottavino, and just got outbid for all of them. Whenever DD wants something, he definitely has a way of getting it, and it just doesn't seem realistic to think that Sox have ever truly been discussing potential contracts with the free agent relievers this offseason. I think it's all going to boil down to trading a catcher for another bullpen piece.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 1, 2019 11:21:53 GMT -5
A couple guys I want them to throw contracts at to see if they stick- Nick Vincent and Nate Karns
Karns is coming off of TOS surgery like Thornburg but always had shown an ability to strike people out. I wonder if a lesser workload would help alleviate his injury concerns and if his stuff could possibly play up a tick if he gets back to close to where he was
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2019 2:46:44 GMT -5
I guess that is a lot of money after all.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Feb 2, 2019 7:21:46 GMT -5
So they are basically doing what I wanted them to do and that’s sign a bunch of live arms to throw at the wall
Yesterday they added Dan Runzler and Brian Ellington on minor league deals. Runzler is a lefty w mid 90s heat, Ellington is high 90’s heat. Both struggle throwing strikes. Ellington fell off a cliff this year and hopefully can be turned around- if he can get back to walking 4 per 9 there could be value there
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 2, 2019 7:29:00 GMT -5
So they are basically doing what I wanted them to do and that’s sign a bunch of live arms to throw at the wall Yesterday they added Dan Runzler and Brian Ellington on minor league deals. Runzler is a lefty w mid 90s heat, Ellington is high 90’s heat. Both struggle throwing strikes. Ellington fell off a cliff this year and hopefully can be turned around- if he can get back to walking 4 per 9 there could be value there They waited a long time to bring up Braiser last year despite his success, and we were all very surprised still he was the pick. I don't know how long they will have the luxury to wait this year, and I doubt we will be surprised.
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Post by benfromma on Feb 2, 2019 8:46:26 GMT -5
I believe they are going to try add to their bullpen with this year's Brazier(are you sure about him one year) in spring training Brewer, Ellington, Runzler and others . They will even wait until around June or July to see who can help at which time if there are areas of need and there will be trades made that may incur penalties salary wise because 2019 will be great window for another championship.(Eovaldi, Pearce, Kinsler) They probably will trade a catcher during spring training for another possible bullpen piece. The bullpen right now and probably will be our weakness this year hopefully we can find some arms that will fill the 7th, 8th and of course the 9th inning closer's role, Bullpen arms are very important during the regular season but once you make the playoffs their roles are diminished because starters are utilized. So make the playoffs
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 2, 2019 13:05:52 GMT -5
With the Sox above average rotation, offense (power and speed), defense and confidence, I have to think that breaking camp with Seven of Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Brewer, Lakins, Thornburg, Workman, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez will be more than enough for a strong start. Especially while easing SP’s back into their roles in March-April.
Consider the possibility of Feltman & D. Hernandez in 2019, and the potential for Bannister and crew unleashing one or three high end reclamation projects. I am amazed that some are convinced the Sox Pen is adrift without power, anchor, crew and taking on water. IMO that’s the slow season talking. It may not be a much touted nyfy-style super-pen but it is, in fact, full of proven talent, shipshape, and on a well considered course to the post-season. And I am excited about surprises yet to come.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 2, 2019 15:30:15 GMT -5
What's the situation with Wright? I'd feel much more at ease knowing we can expect something out of him.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 2, 2019 15:38:28 GMT -5
What's the situation with Wright? I'd feel much more at ease knowing we can expect something out of him. Agree. Wright, Thornburg, C.Smith, Erasmo and the not ready for April wild cards like Putnam, Mejia. But also Pedroia, Nunez, Marco. We will have a very good idea in about two weeks. That simultaneously gives me goosebumps and a sense of calm.
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Post by benfromma on Feb 2, 2019 17:29:03 GMT -5
I agree with everyone who state that they feel that our lineup and our starting rotation is good enough for us to compete at high level. But nothing right now in our bullpen is a sure thing no one has closed before in the major leagues and until you show you can you are a question. It is not time to panic because spring training and early season will be the time to build the bullpen but if the arms are not there and we are losing games in the latter innings I think DD will have to make moves. I have followed baseball for many years sometimes things come together sometimes it is as bad as it looks. The only thing I am trying to say is that you need to be prepared to make the moves you have to because we should have a championship level team and the bullpen right now has many questions no sure things.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 2, 2019 17:40:39 GMT -5
Maybe the Red Sox should sign a crappy starter like Sabathia and put Sale in the bullpen so fans don't freak out about having a worse bullpen than the Yankees.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 2, 2019 18:09:04 GMT -5
What's the situation with Wright? I'd feel much more at ease knowing we can expect something out of him. His knee is in question to start the year. At this point, no one will probably truly know until spring training most likely.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 2, 2019 22:31:29 GMT -5
His knee is in question to start the year. At this point, no one will probably truly know until spring training most likely. That's the thing to me. If he's toast, we're boned and looking pretty thin out there. Now if he's good, he should be all around tremendous in that possibly 2 inning role. We all saw it, albeit in limited time, last season.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 2, 2019 22:43:43 GMT -5
So Greg Holland signed for 3.25 million. That’s not a terrible deal. There are some decent, relievers left in that tier. I’d just like to add one of them, so as to improve the depth. You have a decent idea what Sergio Romo, Tony Sipp, or Alex Wilson is going to give you. Not counting on those guys to replace Kimbrel, but they’d have a role on this team. I really wish the Sox had picked up Holland for that amount. He’s lost velo, but I think his 2nd-half bounceback was innpart learning to not rely on the FB. He’s got 3 (theoretically four, if he brought back his original repertoire) pitches and they’re all fairly good...just not great anymore. But Joakim Soria succeeds with less velocity and a similar repertoire (tho he has that great CH), and I think Holland still has real upside. I’d really like to see the Sox, as you say, pick up *somebody* for one of these low-cost bounceback deals. I know they’re confident in what they have, but some (relatively) reliable upside depth would be nice, especially for that little cost. I mean...Nuñez, when they have Lin. ‘Nuff said.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 2, 2019 23:30:46 GMT -5
With the Sox above average rotation, offense (power and speed), defense and confidence, I have to think that breaking camp with Seven of Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Brewer, Lakins, Thornburg, Workman, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez will be more than enough for a strong start. Especially while easing SP’s back into their roles in March-April. Consider the possibility of Feltman & D. Hernandez in 2019, and the potential for Bannister and crew unleashing one or three high end reclamation projects. I am amazed that some are convinced the Sox Pen is adrift without power, anchor, crew and taking on water. IMO that’s the slow season talking. It may not be a much touted nyfy-style super-pen but it is, in fact, full of proven talent, shipshape, and on a well considered course to the post-season. And I am excited about surprises yet to come. I don't think it's that amazing that people feel that way. I think the majority of people feel that the Red Sox bullpen is a huge question mark. You have no established closer, not that one has to be to become a closer, but the Sox had one of the best ever in Kimbrel. Now they don't. They're basically replacing Kimbrel likely with Barnes. Will he take to closing? Who knows? They're replacing setup man Barnes with Thornburg. Will he be back to his old self? Will he be able to pitch without restriction? They're replacing Kelly (who admittedly was bad during the regular season) with Wright. Is Wright healthy? Will he be healthy? He's coming back from that knee issue as is Pedroia. Hard to count on Pedroia. Hard to count on Wright. Will Brasier pitch well with more exposure? Or will he regress hard? The bullpen has a ton of questions. When Kimbrel was there (post-season aside) you didn't worry about the Sox in the 9th inning. You knew that if they had the lead they were likely winning. Kimbrel was really, really hard to hit. He'd walk too many guys, but opponents couldn't put bat on the ball at all against him. Now there isn't that certainty. Other teams (not just NYY) have more certainty in their pen. Doesn't mean things can't work out. In the Sox' hopes and dreams category, they hope that somebody (Barnes) runs with the closer role and that Thornburg is back to his old self (could even close with Barnes remaining in the same role as last season), that Wright is healthy and can pitch a couple innings here and there to set up, that somebody emerges like a Colten Brewer (who the Sox like for some reason - they must think they can really impact him because his numbers in the minors haven't been particularly special) and/or somebody from the Lakins/Hernandez/Feltman group (even though you can't rely on something like that). It could work, but it could also backfire drastically with all of that uncertainty. In 2018 everything that could possibly go right in between the lines did. I was amazed that the pen was shaky most of the year and the offense had 4 holes in the lineup on any given night, yet they proceeded to somehow win every freaking day. When you watch baseball long enough, you don't ever expect that. Some things will fail to work despite the best laid out plans, yet last year, everything just somehow worked out perfectly. What's the odds of that happening 2 years in a row? I had never seen things be so perfect like they were last year. I just think that sooner or later the law of averages catches up with you. I think the Sox have a lot of certainties on that offense and rotation and they'll perform well, even with some unanticipated bumps in the road, but the bullpen? If there's going to be a issue that's bad enough to keep them behind the Yankees and into a Wild Card spot, it's that pen. If the season started today, I wouldn't feel comfortable that those guys are going to hold leads the way they seemed to always do last season. I wouldn't expect a normal bullpen to be as successful but one with this many question marks?
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Feb 3, 2019 10:38:38 GMT -5
Yes alot went right in 2018. But alot also went wrong. Example, they racked up that amazing 17-2 fast start without several SP and RP (including the understandbly late start from Kimbrel), with Pedroia and Marco already injured, and JBJ and Devers struggling. It’s a more formidable team in 2019, even with a Bullpen that, in this offseason, has yet to be finalized. Truck Day is not the same as opening day. There is time to work this out.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 3, 2019 12:11:45 GMT -5
His knee is in question to start the year. At this point, no one will probably truly know until spring training most likely. That's the thing to me. If he's toast, we're boned and looking pretty thin out there. Now if he's good, he should be all around tremendous in that possibly 2 inning role. We all saw it, albeit in limited time, last season. I agree to a large extent with this. Only Wright and the Sox staff know how he's doing right now. If he's healthy, he can likely be an effective 2-3 inning guy who can pitch those innings more often than your typical pitcher (assuming he can bounce back kind of like Wakefield, which might not be a given since he does throw a harder fastball and I think utilizes it a bit more than Wake did). Maybe the Sox have information that makes them confident in Wright being healthy this year. Perhaps he can be that 2nd closer type that comes on in the 6th or 7th to shut down a rally at a critical point, but can then go that extra inning? Not saying I wouldn't have also preferred another solid arm to go in the pen. We'll see if some of the spaghetti they've added can stick to the bullpen wall. And I do think by May/Jun/July Lakins, Feltman, and/or The Evolution could become effective bullpen arms if necessary. I have no doubt at least 1, and maybe 2 of them are utilized this year in the back of the bullpen.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 3, 2019 17:37:20 GMT -5
Yes alot went right in 2018. But alot also went wrong. Example, they racked up that amazing 17-2 fast start without several SP and RP (including the understandbly late start from Kimbrel), with Pedroia and Marco already injured, and JBJ and Devers struggling. It’s a more formidable team in 2019, even with a Bullpen that, in this offseason, has yet to be finalized. Truck Day is not the same as opening day. There is time to work this out. Between the lines, just about everything went right, which was amazing when you figure that they got well below offensive production out of catcher, 2b, 3b, and cf. Losing Marcos Hernandez didn't do much to move the meter. The guy is a utility guy and replaceable. Lin is probably better anyways and unless Bogaerts gets hurt his impact is neglible. Only Pedroia was a loss last season. At the moment, with the pen having huge question marks, it's not more formidable than last year's team. Hell the team could wind up better on paper if they fix their pen and still not have those once in a lifetime everything goes right type of results that they had last year. That's a lot to expect. If they wind up around 100 wins then this team did well, although 100 wins might not get you out of the Wild Card game. I would anticipate the Yankees, with a full season of Happ and Paxton and a healthy Judge being better this year than last.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 3, 2019 18:18:28 GMT -5
I agree to a large extent with this. Only Wright and the Sox staff know how he's doing right now. If he's healthy, he can likely be an effective 2-3 inning guy who can pitch those innings more often than your typical pitcher (assuming he can bounce back kind of like Wakefield, which might not be a given since he does throw a harder fastball and I think utilizes it a bit more than Wake did). Maybe the Sox have information that makes them confident in Wright being healthy this year. Perhaps he can be that 2nd closer type that comes on in the 6th or 7th to shut down a rally at a critical point, but can then go that extra inning? Not saying I wouldn't have also preferred another solid arm to go in the pen. We'll see if some of the spaghetti they've added can stick to the bullpen wall. And I do think by May/Jun/July Lakins, Feltman, and/or The Evolution could become effective bullpen arms if necessary. I have no doubt at least 1, and maybe 2 of them are utilized this year in the back of the bullpen. The Evolution is a nickname that needs to stick and I'll boycott baseball if it doesn't happen.
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Post by soxjim on Feb 3, 2019 18:48:49 GMT -5
Yes alot went right in 2018. But alot also went wrong. Example, they racked up that amazing 17-2 fast start without several SP and RP (including the understandbly late start from Kimbrel), with Pedroia and Marco already injured, and JBJ and Devers struggling. It’s a more formidable team in 2019, even with a Bullpen that, in this offseason, has yet to be finalized. Truck Day is not the same as opening day. There is time to work this out. Between the lines, just about everything went right, which was amazing when you figure that they got well below offensive production out of catcher, 2b, 3b, and cf. Losing Marcos Hernandez didn't do much to move the meter. The guy is a utility guy and replaceable. Lin is probably better anyways and unless Bogaerts gets hurt his impact is neglible. Only Pedroia was a loss last season. At the moment, with the pen having huge question marks, it's not more formidable than last year's team. Hell the team could wind up better on paper if they fix their pen and still not have those once in a lifetime everything goes right type of results that they had last year. That's a lot to expect. If they wind up around 100 wins then this team did well, although 100 wins might not get you out of the Wild Card game. I would anticipate the Yankees, with a full season of Happ and Paxton and a healthy Judge being better this year than last.When you win 108 games or near that then "everything went right."
And just as much we could "anticipate" everything "goes well" for the Yanks - Paxton has been injury prone. Happ is very old for a sp. So you could anticipate the either way too.
So the projected wins totals between the yanks and So is close enough that you can anticipate the Sox just as likely too.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 3, 2019 21:40:14 GMT -5
I agree to a large extent with this. Only Wright and the Sox staff know how he's doing right now. If he's healthy, he can likely be an effective 2-3 inning guy who can pitch those innings more often than your typical pitcher (assuming he can bounce back kind of like Wakefield, which might not be a given since he does throw a harder fastball and I think utilizes it a bit more than Wake did). Maybe the Sox have information that makes them confident in Wright being healthy this year. Perhaps he can be that 2nd closer type that comes on in the 6th or 7th to shut down a rally at a critical point, but can then go that extra inning? Not saying I wouldn't have also preferred another solid arm to go in the pen. We'll see if some of the spaghetti they've added can stick to the bullpen wall. And I do think by May/Jun/July Lakins, Feltman, and/or The Evolution could become effective bullpen arms if necessary. I have no doubt at least 1, and maybe 2 of them are utilized this year in the back of the bullpen. The Evolution is a nickname that needs to stick and I'll boycott baseball if it doesn't happen. It’s been kickin’ around in here for a bit, so it’s got legs.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 3, 2019 21:55:51 GMT -5
Between the lines, just about everything went right, which was amazing when you figure that they got well below offensive production out of catcher, 2b, 3b, and cf. Losing Marcos Hernandez didn't do much to move the meter. The guy is a utility guy and replaceable. Lin is probably better anyways and unless Bogaerts gets hurt his impact is neglible. Only Pedroia was a loss last season. At the moment, with the pen having huge question marks, it's not more formidable than last year's team. Hell the team could wind up better on paper if they fix their pen and still not have those once in a lifetime everything goes right type of results that they had last year. That's a lot to expect. If they wind up around 100 wins then this team did well, although 100 wins might not get you out of the Wild Card game. I would anticipate the Yankees, with a full season of Happ and Paxton and a healthy Judge being better this year than last.When you win 108 games or near that then "everything went right."
And just as much we could "anticipate" everything "goes well" for the Yanks - Paxton has been injury prone. Happ is very old for a sp. So you could anticipate the either way too.
So the projected wins totals between the yanks and So is close enough that you can anticipate the Sox just as likely too.
Yeah, agreed. The Sox very clearly “got lucky” last year because they outperformed their BaseRuns by something like 8 games. I think Cora might be an anti-Farrell and so maybe worth 1-3 wins over projections on a regular basis. But the 108 wins requires some good fortune. Still, Sale was hurt for about a third of the season, Pedroia was out the whole year, Bogey and Mookie both spent prolonged stints on the DL, and plenty of performances (C, JBJ’s offense, Devers, Beni’s second half, Pomeranz, etc) were subpar to truly atrocious. NY has made some clear upgrades, but we knew last year the teams were pretty evenly matched. Paxton *coukd* be terrific, as could Happ, and the bullpen is outstanding. But Paxton and Happ both have questions, and NY really didn’t significantly upgrade their pen...they basically kept it the same. The Yankees replaced Gray with Paxton; the Sox replaced Pomeranz with Eovaldi. NY has reason to think Sanchez will be much better and Judge should be somewhat better, as might Stanton. But they lose Gregorius. The Sox have reason to think Devers and JBJ will be better and that Benintendi will improve (awful second half), as well as maybe Holt (swing changes for him and JBJ), but they might still be without Pedroia and Sale has questions. I still find these teams pretty evenly matched, and tbh, I like the Sox’s chances because I think they have the (significantly) better manager. I also think the bullpen is less of the giant question than people believe. There are a lot of individual big questions, but I also think that their volume approach will be more successful than many anticipate, provided Barnes stays healthy and Brasier is somewhat close to his last-year self. I also think they’ll have a short leash on that problem running away. They’re not going to let it tank the season. They’ll get aggressive if need be.
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Post by sparkygian on Feb 4, 2019 0:58:13 GMT -5
Sox had a couple of bad traits that would pop up from time-to-time last year that never really was able to stick to them and bring them down. The offense would pretty much disappear for several games in a row, or the bullpen would get real unpredictable for a few weeks, and yet they'd manage to just do enough to win at least .500 of those games. Add in the lousy catcher offense, and the bad D at 2b, and 3b, and they definitely didn't have a 'perfect' season. Their offense was so freakin' hot at times that it would just carry the team in spite of other weaknesses occurring. There was just something magical about the way things played out last season in that losing streaks of any significance just never occurred -- so I also feel like they definitely won more games last season than they probably would win in most seasons if it were possible to simulate that same team playing against the same competition in some computer program. Next season a lot of uncertainty with the bullpen could manifest into a lot of quick losses that could put a lot of strain on the starting pitching, or the offense, and things could just snowball quickly. Kimbrel was definitely a nice comfort to have during his tenure here. Maybe he'll be back -- who knows. For me, it just kinda sucks cause I think how wonderful it would be to see the same roster go at it again, only this time with Eovaldi instead of Pom, and think that maybe the '19 Sox could be even better than last years. I do like the DD and Cora combo, and I am looking forward to how they are playing the rest of their hand out going into the season. Excited to see how these new bullpen pieces play out.
Also, still more worried about Astro's than I am about Yanks this season; I think Sox can get beat out for East title by Yanks, or even Tampa Bay, and have no doubt that they will be able to win Wild Card game, and then keep winning despite not having home field advantage through most of playoffs. They definitely have the heart of a champion, no doubt. I think Houston still has that championship caliber team, too, and they've definitely got some good young talent on the doorstep, so I still feel Houston is a bigger challenger for the Red Sox next season than the Yanks are, in spite of Yanks vaunted bullpen.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 4, 2019 1:23:21 GMT -5
Between the lines, just about everything went right, which was amazing when you figure that they got well below offensive production out of catcher, 2b, 3b, and cf. Losing Marcos Hernandez didn't do much to move the meter. The guy is a utility guy and replaceable. Lin is probably better anyways and unless Bogaerts gets hurt his impact is neglible. Only Pedroia was a loss last season. At the moment, with the pen having huge question marks, it's not more formidable than last year's team. Hell the team could wind up better on paper if they fix their pen and still not have those once in a lifetime everything goes right type of results that they had last year. That's a lot to expect. If they wind up around 100 wins then this team did well, although 100 wins might not get you out of the Wild Card game. I would anticipate the Yankees, with a full season of Happ and Paxton and a healthy Judge being better this year than last.When you win 108 games or near that then "everything went right."
And just as much we could "anticipate" everything "goes well" for the Yanks - Paxton has been injury prone. Happ is very old for a sp. So you could anticipate the either way too.
So the projected wins totals between the yanks and So is close enough that you can anticipate the Sox just as likely too.
I know 1 thing - Paxton even at 160 innings is a big step up from Sonny Gray, who was brutal last year. I would think that a healthy Judge and a more mature Torres and Andujar should help that team. Stanton should be better or at least one would think so. I think the Yankees will be around 103 victories. If the Sox pen can nail down their leads then the Sox will be right there with the Yankees. If the pen struggles I would anticipate some of those games slip away and I would anticipate the Sox to be in the upper 90s or around 100 wins as I do think the Sox will get better offensive production from Devers, Benni, Bradley, 2b, and catching (how can it be worse?) to help offset inevitable regression to something resembling humanity rather than not of this world duo of Betts and JDM and having Eovaldi for a full year, another year of maturation for E-Rod and hopefully health for Sale, would keep the Sox closer to their 100 win mark depending and getting beyond that would be the domain of the pen.
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