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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 13, 2019 10:07:25 GMT -5
My above comments notwithstanding... the fact that Darwinzon pitched only a single inning, and that coming in the 6th, worries me that they're thinking about keeping him up in the bullpen. It's entirely possible that they just wanted to see what it looked like in a single-inning relief outing, which I get, but still, I feel like Cora wouldn't be afraid to do that. If they do it, I will be the first one out there saying it'd be an incredibly short-sighted move. Porcello is, in all likelihood, walking next year. Darwinzon is their best candidate to replace him internally. That's far more important than getting him up this year to pitch the 7th or 8th. Not saying there's not going to be a point in the season in which that calculus changes, but for now, I think it slants heavily towards his getting more reps in the rotation. I think they'll probably try to do the best of both worlds with Darwinzon Hernandez. I think he'll be at Portland as a starter, but I think as the year wears on, they'll probably try to limit his innings for the entire year and when they're doing that, those limited innings could very well come as a reliever in Boston by August 1st if not sooner. I think we'll see Portland starter Darwinzon Hernandez and Boston reliever Darwinzon Hernandez for 2019, and yeah, he'll probably be very much in the mix for the starting role in 2020 to replace Porcello, but Brian Johnson might get the first look. I hope Hernandez can ultimately replace Porcello. I'd hate to think he's restricted to the pen, but his control/command will definitely dictate which winds up happening. Hard to be much of an impact starter if you're nearing 100 pitches in the 5th inning too often.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 13, 2019 10:19:10 GMT -5
Other than experience past A-ball, what's holding Darwinzon back? Does his age or his spot on the 40-man roster play into it at all? Well, he was fourth in the Carolina League in walks last year, and the three guys ahead of him all threw at least 20 more innings. His 14% walk percentage was fourth in the system for pitchers with at least 60 IP. Command and control will be the key difference between whether he's a starter or a reliever long-term, as well as the development of a third pitch. If he winds up in the bullpen, the former also will determine his role. Is very possible he a RP and a very good one, which is fine, but this is a case where I think they need to let the starter track run out.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 13, 2019 10:37:27 GMT -5
I'm hopeful your concerns are for naught. They can proceed as they did last year, having him spend the bulk of the season as a starter honing the skillset, working on those secondaries and the repeatability he'll need to command and control all his pitches.
If they need his services later in the season, he can work out of the bullpen for a handful of appearances. That's not a bad way to introduce a potential starter to the sort of pressure that comes with the job, no matter what role he's playing in the future.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 13, 2019 11:52:51 GMT -5
This is why you don't do this to a championship quality teams bullpen. You don't want to pitch Hernandez in the bullpen right now, not with his upside. At the same time you might have too. I'm really surprised they moved on from the other young guys so quickly. I would have given Shawaryn and Lakins more time frankly. It's still somewhat early, yet Hernandez looks like that guy that can change your bullpen. Save DD from himself type crap. He's more impressive than all the other guys brought in.
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station13
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Post by station13 on Mar 13, 2019 13:19:58 GMT -5
JBJ is losing his grip for the spring training MVP.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 13, 2019 14:43:17 GMT -5
Heading for another loss...Johnson having a rough spring. Quiet bats. Hope they all get hot like last year and hit the ground running as the real season starts
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Post by sparkygian on Mar 13, 2019 15:11:53 GMT -5
Perhaps Cora is considering using Darwinzon as a future 'opener'? Maybe to give an extra day off for Sale, when needed.
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station13
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Post by station13 on Mar 13, 2019 18:03:00 GMT -5
Perhaps Cora is considering using Darwinzon as a future 'opener'? Maybe to give an extra day off for Sale, when needed. That is definitely not happening.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 13, 2019 18:35:01 GMT -5
I agree with the theory of this but not in the specifics of the Hernandez case. I'd be down with that for someone who is a little closer to a finished project - Shawaryn, for example, is probably not ready to be a major league starter, but could probably continue to develop as a major league reliever. I don't think Hector Velazquez's development was particularly stunted by his work being irregular last year. I don't know that's the right track with Hernandez. He can possibly have some success in the majors in the near future by leaning in on the things he currently does well. But it's hard to see him getting a lot of work on his curve or change in the majors, even in a 2-3 inning role. He needs to develop one (or both) to be a major league starter, and it makes a lot more sense for him to do that at a level where he can be free to do the things he's currently not good at. If he's in Portland and they need him to work on his curveball and it's not working, then... so what? He gives up 7 runs in 3 1/3 in Double A one time and it's no skin on anyone's nose. In the majors, those motivations and goals are different. It's harder to focus both on meeting developmental milestones and also succeeding. It's also the difference in where they end up. With Velazquez, who projected as a 4/5 but was already an MLB-ready middle reliever, so what? Maybe he could've been a tiny bit better on a different development track, but it's not a huge gap. With Hernandez, though, he has the upside of a 2/3, but there's a lot that he needs to learn to get there, and some lumps he has to take that probably aren't the best to have him take while pitching in the majors.Related to his confidence I agree, and the stuff may not play because of him being wild, but if he is getting guys out in AAA with consistency in the near future, I am not sure that him taking lumps with the big league club should be a concern for the club. He has great professionals to learn from in the rotation, a manager that will protect him and a lineup that may be able to overcome some shaky starts with offense.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Mar 14, 2019 10:04:02 GMT -5
Looks like Feltman made the trip to Lakeland for today's game.
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sarasoxer
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Post by sarasoxer on Mar 14, 2019 13:03:40 GMT -5
Throwing the sink against the wall...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 14, 2019 13:47:38 GMT -5
Perhaps Cora is considering using Darwinzon as a future 'opener'? Maybe to give an extra day off for Sale, when needed. I've said this here and elsewhere: the opener is used by teams that do not have 5 legitimate MLB starting pitchers. The Red Sox are not the kind of team that the opener strategy applies to.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 14, 2019 13:52:04 GMT -5
"Openers" are also just medium-to-low leverage relievers who happen to pitch first. No team envisions their best pitching prospect being that. Like "maybe Darwinzon can be late-stage Sergio Romo" isn't an outcome that Cora or anyone else is hoping for.
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Post by mandelbro on Mar 14, 2019 14:39:38 GMT -5
Perhaps Cora is considering using Darwinzon as a future 'opener'? Maybe to give an extra day off for Sale, when needed. I've said this here and elsewhere: the opener is used by teams that do not have 5 legitimate MLB starting pitchers. The Red Sox are not the kind of team that the opener strategy applies to. The Red Sox are more likely to go into a season with 7 starters than 4.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 14, 2019 18:02:13 GMT -5
Perhaps Cora is considering using Darwinzon as a future 'opener'? Maybe to give an extra day off for Sale, when needed. I've said this here and elsewhere: the opener is used by teams that do not have 5 legitimate MLB starting pitchers. The Red Sox are not the kind of team that the opener strategy applies to. I would say that Darwinzon is not the kind of pitcher you use as an opener before I'd say the strategy doesn't apply to the Red Sox. I get what you're saying, but Brian Johnson made a bunch of starts for this team last year. Brian Johnson is not too good to get opened for. (No, they're probably not going to use one anyway, and they're certainly not going to use Darwinzon in the role, AND I'm on record as saying the strategy should be banned outright... but they for sure will have nights this season where they could justifiably use one.)
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Post by telson13 on Mar 14, 2019 22:36:18 GMT -5
My above comments notwithstanding... the fact that Darwinzon pitched only a single inning, and that coming in the 6th, worries me that they're thinking about keeping him up in the bullpen. It's entirely possible that they just wanted to see what it looked like in a single-inning relief outing, which I get, but still, I feel like Cora wouldn't be afraid to do that. If they do it, I will be the first one out there saying it'd be an incredibly short-sighted move. Porcello is, in all likelihood, walking next year. Darwinzon is their best candidate to replace him internally. That's far more important than getting him up this year to pitch the 7th or 8th. Not saying there's not going to be a point in the season in which that calculus changes, but for now, I think it slants heavily towards his getting more reps in the rotation. Developmentally, they’d have to weigh the lost innings (lost rep time on command, secondary refinement, any effect on innings restriction next year) against the benefit of experience at the MLB level (including coaching, relationships with teammates, help with approach from teammates, exposure to better diet/conditioning, etc). I think anything that moves him further from starting long-term is a mistake. If they view this as a Chris Sale ca. 2010-11 type deal, I’m ok with it. Sale almost certainly benefitted, as did the team. I’m 100% onboard with grooming him as a Porcello replacement, it’s the best, most logical plan that saves the most $ both short- and longer-term, and offers considerable upside. If they think working at the MLB level with Levangie/Bannister will help improve his one glaring weakness (command related to effort) better than AAA starting, I’m all-in. I have a high degree of confidence that he helps the club in relief right away.
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Post by Don Caballero on Mar 14, 2019 22:58:13 GMT -5
"Openers" are also just medium-to-low leverage relievers who happen to pitch first. No team envisions their best pitching prospect being that. Like "maybe Darwinzon can be late-stage Sergio Romo" isn't an outcome that Cora or anyone else is hoping for. Maybe he can be a "Middlener" like Jalen Beeks I believe was for the Rays? Is "Middlener" a thing? And why isn't it considering that guy pitches more than the "Opener" anyway? Modern baseball was a mistake.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 15, 2019 6:40:47 GMT -5
I've said this here and elsewhere: the opener is used by teams that do not have 5 legitimate MLB starting pitchers. The Red Sox are not the kind of team that the opener strategy applies to. I would say that Darwinzon is not the kind of pitcher you use as an opener before I'd say the strategy doesn't apply to the Red Sox. I get what you're saying, but Brian Johnson made a bunch of starts for this team last year. Brian Johnson is not too good to get opened for. (No, they're probably not going to use one anyway, and they're certainly not going to use Darwinzon in the role, AND I'm on record as saying the strategy should be banned outright... but they for sure will have nights this season where they could justifiably use one.) Funny, I almost used "if Brian Johnson were going to be in the rotation, he'd be the kind of guy you'd open for" as an example. So yes, you make a very good point. My point was more that the Red Sox wouldn't use the strategy on the regular with their projected rotation. I'd add, though, that Johnson getting a spot start here or there might make the learning curve of a guy being used as an opener less worth it.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 15, 2019 13:52:48 GMT -5
May all of their ugly baseball be happening now. Ouch again today!
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 15, 2019 14:54:48 GMT -5
Well there was only 1 earned run given up by pitchers who are projected to make the 25 man roster if that's any consolation.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 15, 2019 15:49:10 GMT -5
Well there was only 1 earned run given up by pitchers who are projected to make the 25 man roster if that's any consolation. They are also saving up, and not wasting lots of hits! 😀
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sarasoxer
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Post by sarasoxer on Mar 15, 2019 16:35:36 GMT -5
C' mon! The game was a lot closer than the score.....
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 15, 2019 16:46:46 GMT -5
C' mon! The game was a lot closer than the score..... sitting here in Detroit - eagerly awaiting the Duke UNC game tonight (speaking at a gardening event here tomorrow). Tired of the road, ready for a spell of gardening at home!
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 15, 2019 16:56:19 GMT -5
Well, the Yankees 14-1 win today does not make up for the last 14-1 game they played. Oops, that was 16-1.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 15, 2019 16:58:47 GMT -5
C' mon! The game was a lot closer than the score..... sitting here in Detroit - eagerly awaiting the Duke UNC game tonight (speaking at a gardening event here tomorrow). Tired of the road, ready for a spell of gardening at home! When are you planting all of your tomatoes?
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