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5/27-5/29 Red Sox vs. Indians Series Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 28, 2019 23:25:23 GMT -5
Worst loss of the year.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 28, 2019 23:27:21 GMT -5
A few quick thoughts before I head to bed (exhausted here) - Mookie had a really poor game. There were some squanders and we certainly could have had more runs.....but...
Lakins not ready for prime time, and Brasier is simply broken right now. The pen is thin. Hoping Walden's poor showing is just a minor hiccup, but he's been better than we had any right to expect, so he may be coming down to earth.
Can't get 5 games over...can't take advantage of the NY loss. Disappointing.
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dirtdog
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Post by dirtdog on May 28, 2019 23:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by hammerhead on May 28, 2019 23:28:49 GMT -5
This team seriously needs a lefty in the pen and another lock down righty. It's time to make a move, no more AAAA guys.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2019 23:29:07 GMT -5
Got it Jim. Do nothing. Everything is fine as is. No need to ever upgrade the team. I guess Dombrowski can go on vacation. Boy, you made me feel better. Everything would have been fine if they signed Joe Kelly and Cody Allen, right? Jim, last time I checked - I don't draw a paycheck from the team - that would be their call who they designate the right person to get. They have better analytics and scouting reports than I could provide. Seriously Jim, are you on their payroll? Do you get defense attorney fees or something? Jeez, I doubt the Sox brass doesn't realize that they need to upgrade the pen. Yet you're up in arms because somebody dared to make a suggestion.
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dirtdog
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Post by dirtdog on May 28, 2019 23:29:38 GMT -5
The one move I wish that had panned out over the last few years....Carson Smith.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on May 28, 2019 23:30:53 GMT -5
I'm curious to know how was the depth chart of the Red Sox last year regarding the BP arms in the Minors: Was Lakins ahead of Buttery? Because that guy is not good! It was written in the sky since he's the profile pic of pedrofan lol
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2019 23:32:43 GMT -5
That was a brutal loss. A very, very winnable game that they let slip away - at home to a crappy Cleveland team. Hard to gain ground on 1st place team when you don't win those types of games you need to win.
Not the end of the world - and yeah, the bullpen will have better days - but right there - that's where I missed Kimbrel. The guy was a heart attack but he didn't let too many games like that slip last season - and no that's not a "I wished they had signed Kimbrel" plea - given the circumstances, I totally get why he's not here, but his loss was felt in that game.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 28, 2019 23:39:47 GMT -5
I'm curious to know how was the depth chart of the Red Sox last year regarding the BP arms in the Minors: Was Lakins ahead of Buttery? Because that guy is not good! It was written in the sky since he's the profile pic of pedrofan lol I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 28, 2019 23:46:51 GMT -5
I'm curious to know how was the depth chart of the Red Sox last year regarding the BP arms in the Minors: Was Lakins ahead of Buttery? Because that guy is not good! It was written in the sky since he's the profile pic of pedrofan lol I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. They gave a freaking clean inning: nobody on, 3 outs to go and he royally pooped. You pound the zone and let the BABIP gods beat/save you! He's mediocre across the board. On another note, it seems like every pitcher you put in your profiypic magically starts scuffling...Put some MFY pitcher or something lol
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Post by incandenza on May 28, 2019 23:46:59 GMT -5
How is Zach Plesac not a top 30 prospect in the Indians system according to MLB? His stats in the minors look impressive and it's not like the Indians have the best system. I like the fact that Holt is back in the lineup at 2nd and Chavis is at 1st. Is Darwinzon still with the club? If so, I wonder what the plan is.. I know nothing about him, but he was a 23-year-old in high-A ball and has all of 79 IP above that level. (In other words, the kind of pitcher the Red Sox always seem to get like 1 run and 4 hits against.) We got 1 run and 4 hits against him.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on May 28, 2019 23:52:30 GMT -5
Honestly, it's on Walden: You walk a .089 hitter and s*** goes downhill. If he got his 3 outs like he usually does, you have Barnes in the 9th and a win in the column. Heck, he get Lindor to swing and miss twice but those whiffs came when he was behind in the count etc etc Ugly loss that will open the floodgates of the confirmation bias 😒
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2019 23:53:30 GMT -5
I'm curious to know how was the depth chart of the Red Sox last year regarding the BP arms in the Minors: Was Lakins ahead of Buttery? Because that guy is not good! It was written in the sky since he's the profile pic of pedrofan lol I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. I would think the Angels chose Buttrey over Lakins in the Kinsler deal, but who knows? I don't know if Buttrey was the must have for the Angels or if they presented the Sox with a list of acceptable relievers/players for Kinsler. The only thing for sure that I question now was why didn't Buttrey at least get a look last year with the Red Sox? It was almost like they were trying to keep him pristine so that his trade value wasn't ruined by some poor big league outings, but who really knows? The only thing that is now obvious is that they misevaluated who Buttrey has become. Honestly, I didn't see this coming or I'd be a hypocrite if I said I did. But then again I don't have the scouting resources that the Red Sox did. That they still came to the conclusion that this was a kid they should part with was a bad evaluation. And of course, the thought that Kinsler was still a good player was misguided, too - although I get why they wanted stability at 2b. But man, wouldn't they have just as fine if they just went with Brandon Phillips as the RH hitting 2b and kept Buttrey?
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on May 28, 2019 23:55:56 GMT -5
I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. I would think the Angels chose Buttrey over Lakins in the Kinsler deal, but who knows? I don't know if Buttrey was the must have for the Angels or if they presented the Sox with a list of acceptable relievers/players for Kinsler. The only thing for sure that I question now was why didn't Buttrey at least get a look last year with the Red Sox? It was almost like they were trying to keep him pristine so that his trade value wasn't ruined by some poor big league outings, but who really knows? The only thing that is now obvious is that they misevaluated who Buttrey has become. Honestly, I didn't see this coming or I'd be a hypocrite if I said I did. But then again I don't have the scouting resources that the Red Sox did. That they still came to the conclusion that this was a kid they should part with was a bad evaluation. And of course, the thought that Kinsler was still a good player was misguided, too - although I get why they wanted stability at 2b. But man, wouldn't they have just as fine if they just went with Brandon Phillips as the RH hitting 2b and kept Buttrey? especially because Holt started to thoroughly outplay Kinsler as time went on, we ended up not really needing him.
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Post by telson13 on May 28, 2019 23:56:01 GMT -5
I'm curious to know how was the depth chart of the Red Sox last year regarding the BP arms in the Minors: Was Lakins ahead of Buttery? Because that guy is not good! It was written in the sky since he's the profile pic of pedrofan lol I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. Worst part of the whole thing is that they never gave Buttrey a look in MLB, despite the need. That was very, very poor talent management. Extremely disappointing, and should raise some eyebrows around their player evaluation.
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Post by telson13 on May 28, 2019 23:56:56 GMT -5
I know nothing about him, but he was a 23-year-old in high-A ball and has all of 79 IP above that level. (In other words, the kind of pitcher the Red Sox always seem to get like 1 run and 4 hits against.) We got 1 run and 4 hits against him. 🤣🤣🤣 I was thinking in the 6th how you’d called that, but I can’t believe you were dead-on.
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
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Post by radiohix on May 29, 2019 0:01:33 GMT -5
I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. Worst part of the whole thing is that they never gave Buttrey a look in MLB, despite the need. That was very, very poor talent management. Extremely disappointing, and should raise some eyebrows around their player evaluation. I really really hope they don't repeat that same mistake with Ockimey because the ressemblance is staggering: Both unprotected the first year but don't get picked up than they dominate the competition in AAA without getting a shot to contribute in the Majors. Let's hope he gets a look this year.
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Post by telson13 on May 29, 2019 0:06:39 GMT -5
I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. I would think the Angels chose Buttrey over Lakins in the Kinsler deal, but who knows? I don't know if Buttrey was the must have for the Angels or if they presented the Sox with a list of acceptable relievers/players for Kinsler. The only thing for sure that I question now was why didn't Buttrey at least get a look last year with the Red Sox? It was almost like they were trying to keep him pristine so that his trade value wasn't ruined by some poor big league outings, but who really knows? The only thing that is now obvious is that they misevaluated who Buttrey has become. Honestly, I didn't see this coming or I'd be a hypocrite if I said I did. But then again I don't have the scouting resources that the Red Sox did. That they still came to the conclusion that this was a kid they should part with was a bad evaluation. And of course, the thought that Kinsler was still a good player was misguided, too - although I get why they wanted stability at 2b. But man, wouldn't they have just as fine if they just went with Brandon Phillips as the RH hitting 2b and kept Buttrey? I thought Buttrey had a great chance to be a back-end arm, and said so at the time of the trade, but I certainly didn’t think he’d be this good, this soon. Dead-on about the call-up thing. I hadn’t considered it but you might be right about the trade value play. I kvetched all June-July about giving him a shot, but they went ahead and botched the hell out of it anyway 🤣. Apparently I hold little sway with the FO. I’m pretty sure at this point they finish 88-74 and out of the playoffs. Lots of good developments this year, but way too many meh performances and some tactical errors that’re gonna bite them. Plus, TB looks really good and NY has been Yankees-lucky with their fill-ins. Oakland’s on a run, and they’re definitely not the sub-500 team they were before this win streak. Sox still have a solid chance, but losing this one to a direct wild card contender was bad. If they get a little lucky and play to their abilities, they could win 92-93 and sneak in. Could be a long, aggravating summer tho. At least I have Jarren Duran to keep me coming back.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 29, 2019 0:18:24 GMT -5
Worst part of the whole thing is that they never gave Buttrey a look in MLB, despite the need. That was very, very poor talent management. Extremely disappointing, and should raise some eyebrows around their player evaluation. I really really hope they don't repeat that same mistake with Ockimey because the ressemblance is staggering: Both unprotected the first year but don't get picked up than they dominate the competition in AAA without getting a shot to contribute in the Majors. Let's hope he gets a look this year. You will get your answer on Ockimey if they resign 32 year old JDM to DH in the future once he opts out. If they don't resign him, Ockimey is your obvious choice to be that next DH now that Chavis has found a position at second or first base.
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Post by libertine on May 29, 2019 0:21:07 GMT -5
Tonight was a fine example of what a good major league bullpen doesn't look like.
Last season everything went right. This season it seems one part of our play is costing us any given game. Either the starter is off. Or the offense can't do anything. Or the defense lets us down. Or the bullpen implodes. They are seemingly a team where something invariably will go wrong. It appears like it will be one of those years in the opposite karmic sense to last year...
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on May 29, 2019 0:21:17 GMT -5
I really really hope they don't repeat that same mistake with Ockimey because the ressemblance is staggering: Both unprotected the first year but don't get picked up than they dominate the competition in AAA without getting a shot to contribute in the Majors. Let's hope he gets a look this year. You will get your answer on Ockimey if they resign 32 year old JDM to DH in the future once he opts out. If they don't resign him, Ockimey is your obvious choice to be that next DH now that Chavis has found a position at second or first base. Why replacing only JDM? Can't he replace Moreland? Chavis can't play both positions at the same time.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 29, 2019 0:21:49 GMT -5
I still like Lankins, but his velocity is down and he has durability issues in the past. Still rooting for the kid, but you have a fair point about the Sox evaluation of both players if they chose Lakins over Buttrey. They gave a freaking clean inning: nobody on, 3 outs to go and he royally pooped. You pound the zone and let the BABIP gods beat/save you! He's mediocre across the board. On another note, it seems like every pitcher you put in your profiypic magically starts scuffling...Put some MFY pitcher or something lol Will do. Lol I'll put a Domingo German since I really want that kid to struggle since he's picked up the Yankees bigtime this year. My Avatars are cursed lol.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 29, 2019 0:21:59 GMT -5
I would think the Angels chose Buttrey over Lakins in the Kinsler deal, but who knows? I don't know if Buttrey was the must have for the Angels or if they presented the Sox with a list of acceptable relievers/players for Kinsler. The only thing for sure that I question now was why didn't Buttrey at least get a look last year with the Red Sox? It was almost like they were trying to keep him pristine so that his trade value wasn't ruined by some poor big league outings, but who really knows? The only thing that is now obvious is that they misevaluated who Buttrey has become. Honestly, I didn't see this coming or I'd be a hypocrite if I said I did. But then again I don't have the scouting resources that the Red Sox did. That they still came to the conclusion that this was a kid they should part with was a bad evaluation. And of course, the thought that Kinsler was still a good player was misguided, too - although I get why they wanted stability at 2b. But man, wouldn't they have just as fine if they just went with Brandon Phillips as the RH hitting 2b and kept Buttrey? I thought Buttrey had a great chance to be a back-end arm, and said so at the time of the trade, but I certainly didn’t think he’d be this good, this soon. Dead-on about the call-up thing. I hadn’t considered it but you might be right about the trade value play. I kvetched all June-July about giving him a shot, but they went ahead and botched the hell out of it anyway 🤣. Apparently I hold little sway with the FO. I’m pretty sure at this point they finish 88-74 and out of the playoffs. Lots of good developments this year, but way too many meh performances and some tactical errors that’re gonna bite them. Plus, TB looks really good and NY has been Yankees-lucky with their fill-ins. Oakland’s on a run, and they’re definitely not the sub-500 team they were before this win streak. Sox still have a solid chance, but losing this one to a direct wild card contender was bad. If they get a little lucky and play to their abilities, they could win 92-93 and sneak in. Could be a long, aggravating summer tho. At least I have Jarren Duran to keep me coming back. telson, this might be shocking but I might be a little more optimistic here than you. I do think the Sox will win around 93 games and I do think they'll be one of the Wild Cards. I think they'll have a stretch where they really put it together and get really, really hot for a few weeks, but I think they're going to have a number of games where they really shoot themselves in the foot like they did today and that prevents them from winning say 96 - 100 games and taking the division. You're correct that Oakland is probably the Sox' biggest threat to missing the playoffs, but despite Fiers' no-hitter and the ability of Oakland's ballpark to make the pitchers look better than they are, their rotation really doesn't impress me. I do think the Sox have a better team than Oakland. There is still plenty of time left this year, but the vibe doesn't feel there this year. The years feels uphill and has felt that way from the beginning. Plus the fact that the Yankees have thrived despite the injuries makes me wonder if it's their year - at least for the division anyways. Houston is a team that I still think is the most talented and we haven't even seen some of their young pitchers yet and Altuve hasn't come back healthy yet. And I finally studied Minnesota, at least statistically. Wow. It's like everybody has blossomed all at once. Don't think that will last, but there really is no threat to them in that division, so I can buy them winning the Central - even when some of the regulars come down to earth, but wow - I do think that Rosario, Polanco, and Kepler have blossomed, and Buxton is capable of being even better than he' been. As far as Duran goes, I keep hoping he's the next Ellsbury. In my mind's eye - my hope for the future is this lineup: CF Duran RF Betts 3B Devers DH Martinez SS Bogaerts LF Benintendi 2B Chavis 1B Dalbec C Vazquez
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 29, 2019 0:23:14 GMT -5
You will get your answer on Ockimey if they resign 32 year old JDM to DH in the future once he opts out. If they don't resign him, Ockimey is your obvious choice to be that next DH now that Chavis has found a position at second or first base. Why replacing only JDM? Can't he replace Moreland? Chavis can't play both positions at the same time. He seems like a guy who might not be good enough to play first base full-time. Defense seems to hold him back based off of reports on here.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 29, 2019 0:25:36 GMT -5
Worst part of the whole thing is that they never gave Buttrey a look in MLB, despite the need. That was very, very poor talent management. Extremely disappointing, and should raise some eyebrows around their player evaluation. I really really hope they don't repeat that same mistake with Ockimey because the ressemblance is staggering: Both unprotected the first year but don't get picked up than they dominate the competition in AAA without getting a shot to contribute in the Majors. Let's hope he gets a look this year. I wouldn't let JD Martinez go to hand the DH slot to Ockimey. I can see the case for letting him try to win the 1b job in 2020, but his defense is questionable, and if he can't hit lefties and his BA is around .200, it could be really hard for his walks and power to really play up, but I won't discounts him. I have Dalbec penciled in as the future 1b, but he's got a lot of the same issues as Ockimey, but I think defensively he has a better shot at being a viable 1b (if not 3b because Devers could become a good 3b). Either way both guys would be holding the 1b fort until Tristan Casas is ready, a few years down the road. That guy is going to be a monster.
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