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Cora, Dombrowski, and Pedroia Addressing the Media
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Post by James Dunne on May 27, 2019 21:58:57 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 27, 2019 22:14:44 GMT -5
The difference is that Dempster wasn't forced to retire because of injury. He decided to because he was tired of the grind. The difference is when it transpired. Iirc, Dempster was fighting an arm injury and would have opened the season on the DL. If he just decided to retire there would have been no need for the donation to his trust. He would be walking away from a contract which would make it void. Yeah I was thinking about the Dempster contract too. It would have to be after the season is done, but if Pedrioa walked away in the off-season, the Sox I think, could put him on the restricted list. There are no injuries in the off-season. That's why your 40 man roster needs to be reset after the postseason is over and all the 60 day IL players who were off the 40 man roster need to be added all over again. Add- I'm almost sure if the Sox added Pedrioa to the restricted list, they would still owe him the money in his contract, but it won't count against the CBT. Didn't the same thing happened in the Prince Fielder contract too?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 27, 2019 22:35:18 GMT -5
My only hope for Pedroia as a player is to get some garbage time ABs, watch him put on a laser show, and see his lifetime batting average inch back up to .300. He was at .300 but his 2-20 or whatever it was dropped him to .299. Yeah, I was thinking maybe one more at bat in September. He needs a sendoff once in Fenway. I have only teared up maybe 5 times as a Sox fan. Nomars first appearance since returning to Fenway, Pedro's last game pitching here in the world series (I had a huge feeling he was a goner), Ted Williams last goodbye, Ortiz's last at bat in the post-season. I might be missing one or two moments, but Pedrioa will be on this list shortly if this happens. I remember Ellis Burks last at bat at Fenway. He got a single and Fenway wouldn't stop cheering or shut up for 5 minutes straight (the same with Nomar's first at bat). This needs to happen with Pedrioa. He's the second most dependable player I have ever seen play behind Rivera. The most dependable Red Sox player I have ever seen put on this uniform. I'm going to miss watching him playing baseball. His cocky attitude, his quotes, they were all incredibly funny.
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Post by dirtdog on May 27, 2019 22:48:04 GMT -5
Interview with Tito on the ESPN national radio broadcast before the game today. Said he had a 30 minute convo with Pedroia before the game today. Said Pedeys words were "I have emtied the tank" FWIW.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 27, 2019 23:02:07 GMT -5
My only hope for Pedroia as a player is to get some garbage time ABs, watch him put on a laser show, and see his lifetime batting average inch back up to .300. He was at .300 but his 2-20 or whatever it was dropped him to .299. Yeah, I was thinking maybe one more at bat in September. He needs a sendoff once in Fenway. I have only teared up maybe 5 times as a Sox fan. Nomars first appearance since returning to Fenway, Pedro's last game pitching here in the world series (I had a huge feeling he was a goner), Ted Williams last goodbye, Ortiz's last at bat in the post-season. I might be missing one or two moments, but Pedrioa will be on this list shortly if this happens. I remember Ellis Burks last at bat at Fenway. He got a single and Fenway wouldn't stop cheering or shut up for 5 minutes straight (the same with Nomar's first at bat). This needs to happen with Pedrioa. He's the second most dependable player I have ever seen play behind Rivera. The most dependable Red Sox player I have ever seen put on this uniform. I'm going to miss watching him playing baseball. His cocky attitude, his quotes, they were all incredibly funny. Actually I'd hope for two hits in two ABs from Pedroia during garbage time in September, a tall order of course. Two hits in two ABs would give him a lifetime BA of .2995 which rounds up to .300. My gut feeling is that we'll never see him bat in the majors ever again unfortunately.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 27, 2019 23:14:13 GMT -5
Interview with Tito on the ESPN national radio broadcast before the game today. Said he had a 30 minute convo with Pedroia before the game today. Said Pedeys words were "I have emtied the tank" FWIW. Every time I saw Tito on the tube today, "15-2, 15-4, 15-6 and a pair is 8" ran thru my head.
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Post by GyIantosca on May 28, 2019 5:31:39 GMT -5
I know this day is coming . On Weei before a game I think it was McAdam who said in the offseason Petey knee hurt so bad in his house in this one room , he had them replace the floor. So he is gonna play over 100 games?
They also confirmed the Sox have no insurance on Petey. He said if to do it over he never would of gotten the surgery. It sucks. There lucky Chavis emerged with Holt healthy because I can not stand watching Nunez.
By the way how about that terrible minor league system! Okimey looking good if this persists I hope he gets a good look at first.
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Post by patford on May 28, 2019 7:58:33 GMT -5
It seems to me that the common-sense way to handle this is for Dustin to retire and for the RS to then immediately hire him as a coach - at the same salary he gets now - through the end of the 2021 season. That way, he doesn't lose any money and his earnings won't count toward luxury tax calculations. Going over the the top threshold in 2018 cost the RS a first rounder in this year's draft and they're tight up against that limit again. If he retired now, it would free up enough money to make a meaningful BP acquisition. Oh yeah, let's hang "15" up on the RF facade. The money is on the CBT. It's not coming off. Chris, Can you provide some clarity on this point ? Is that just for the rest of this year or for the life of the contract ? And what was the difference with Dempster and that contract "coming off the book" as far as the CBT ?
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Post by jimed14 on May 28, 2019 8:26:27 GMT -5
The money is on the CBT. It's not coming off. Chris, Can you provide some clarity on this point ? Is that just for the rest of this year or for the life of the contract ? And what was the difference with Dempster and that contract "coming off the book" as far as the CBT ? Dempster didn't attempt to rehab at all. Pedroia has tried for 2 full seasons and even got an experimental surgery that they'll probably never attempt again to continue playing. Not paying Pedroia the rest of his contract is just plain ridiculous to even mention. He gave up walking without pain for the Red Sox.
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Post by James Dunne on May 28, 2019 8:44:36 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems a pretty key difference is that Pedroia would still like to play but is physically unable to, possibly permanently. Dempster no longer wanted to, didn't report, and essentially worked out a buyout.
Pedroia's situation is closer to that of Prince Fielder.
The luxury tax/CBT, and probably Moneyball turning so many armchair GMs into penny-pinching armchair GMs has done a weird thing to fan psychology. Comparing Pedroia to a pretty similar Cam Neely situation 20 years ago, I certainly do not remember any sentiments of "I wish he'd just understand that he's done and do right by the team." He, like Neely, broke his damn body for the team.
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Post by jimed14 on May 28, 2019 8:49:51 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems a pretty key difference is that Pedroia would still like to play but is physically unable to, possibly permanently. Dempster no longer wanted to, didn't report, and essentially worked out a buyout. Pedroia's situation is closer to that of Prince Fielder. The luxury tax/CBT, and probably Moneyball turning so many armchair GMs into penny=pinching armchair GMs has done a weird thing to fan psychology. Comparing Pedroia to a pretty similar Cam Neely situation 20 years ago, I certainly do not remember any sentiments of "I wish he'd just understand that he's done and do right by the team." He, like Neely, broke his damn body for the team. Yep. All this talk about Pedrdoia's salary is nothing more than fans hoping that the Red Sox have another $10 million to waste and all I can think about is how sad it is. It's like they think of Pedroia as being worth 2/3rds of a Sandoval.
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Post by James Dunne on May 28, 2019 8:58:44 GMT -5
Not that it should make a huge difference, but it's an added level of frustration that it's not even that much money! $25M over the next two years is not some insurmountable hurdle. Just another reminder that the loyalty fans demand only goes one way, and that if you drew a Venn Diagram of fans who demand loyalty from players and the "Pedroia is a fraud who should just retire" WEEI-caller mongrels, it'd just be a circle.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2019 9:11:13 GMT -5
Yeah, it seems a pretty key difference is that Pedroia would still like to play but is physically unable to, possibly permanently. Dempster no longer wanted to, didn't report, and essentially worked out a buyout. Pedroia's situation is closer to that of Prince Fielder. The luxury tax/CBT, and probably Moneyball turning so many armchair GMs into penny=pinching armchair GMs has done a weird thing to fan psychology. Comparing Pedroia to a pretty similar Cam Neely situation 20 years ago, I certainly do not remember any sentiments of "I wish he'd just understand that he's done and do right by the team." He, like Neely, broke his damn body for the team. Yep. All this talk about Pedrdoia's salary is nothing more than fans hoping that the Red Sox have another $10 million to waste and all I can think about is how sad it is. It's like they think of Pedroia as being worth 2/3rds of a Sandoval. I don't think that the motives are as "sinister" as you seem to think it is. Yeah, the reality is that having more money on the payroll is advantangeous given where MLB or Red Sox ownership wants to draw the line on payroll before penalties. It could be the difference of the Sox bringing somebody back or getting in somebody new to not getting somebody, which can be a big deal. So yeah, there's that, but I can't think of anybody who would compare Pedroia to Sandoval. The two would never enter the same sentence like ever. And I don't think anybody is angry at Pedroia for drawing a paycheck. Now, I can only speak for myself. Dempster was never a notable player for me. I remember Dempster retiringand forfeiting his deal. I remember Keith Foulke opting out of some money with Cleveland when he didn't have to. The details of all that are fuzzy in my memory. Therefore that's why I asked the question of what the difference was. I don't think it's a foolish question nor is there anything sinister about the motive of the question - it's not like I'm thinking, "That Pedroia bum is worthless. Stop getting paid for not playing!" I'd guess that the others asking similar questions don't have those kinds of motives either. So I don't understand the heavy handed response. It was just a question of what was the difference. The explanation sufficed just fine. Just didn't understand the snarkiness of it. Can't imagine, especially on this site, that we're not all fans of Pedroia. I would think we all are. And I do hope that he gives it up. Not for the money, but for his own health. If the guy is in pain, and we've seen nothing at all through various news reports, to think that he isn't, whether he's getting paid or not, I don't want to see the guy hurt anymore. There needs to be a physical quality of life beyond baseball. I also don't want to see him get hurt worse or come back as a shell of himself either. He owes nothing to the Red Sox or Red Sox nation.
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Post by James Dunne on May 28, 2019 9:40:40 GMT -5
And I don't think anybody is angry at Pedroia for drawing a paycheck. Here's a sample I got from typing "Dustin Pedroia" into the twitter search: Dude has 29,000 twitter followers and is out here calling Pedroia a disgrace! (extra points for having a Free Kirk profile picture, this is like Bingo for trash Boston sports coverage)
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 28, 2019 9:43:32 GMT -5
Those "fans" are a disagrace though. I wouldn't count them. There's a small outcry of them, but it's disgusting that the media gives them the time of day to begin with and doesn't block or delete their messages.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 28, 2019 9:44:41 GMT -5
If Pedrioa is like the Price Fielder situation (like I brought up), then I think half of his money will be covered by insurance. This would show up in the CBT bill if I read it right.
That's what I thought happened to Fielder's situation. So 7 out of Pedrioa's 14 million AAV should be covered the next two years. So 7 AAV should only show up in the bill.
I don't expect Henry to pay for a contract to make up for it because he'll have 30 million in dead money between Rusney Castillo (if he doesn't opt out), Pedrioa, and the Pablo Sandoval buyout next off-season. Henry doesn't like to pay his way off with mistakes. He'd rather just let it sit there and let it stink up the place.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,298
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Post by radiohix on May 28, 2019 9:45:55 GMT -5
I wish I didn't read that post...I was having a good day.
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Post by James Dunne on May 28, 2019 9:45:59 GMT -5
Those "fans" are a disagrace though. I wouldn't count them. There's a small outcry of them, but it's disgusting that the media gives them the time of day to begin with and doesn't block or delete their messages. Oh, I'm not saying they're not the absolute scum of the earth, and the entire reason that sports fans in general have a bad reputation. They're an extremely vocal minority, but I think it's valuable to call them trash out loud rather than pretending they don't exist. EDIT: And those are just the mean-spirited ones! There are a LOT more that are taking a "he should just retire" tone but in a more kind way. Which, again, compare to Neely - there probably were some scumbags who thought he was overrated and doing it for money or something insane, but the "it'd be best for everyone if he just retired" sentiment wasn't really there. Neely wanted to play more and couldn't--fans hoped he could and were sad that he couldn't. That seems like the rational fan response here. Something has warped that, and it seems to me like it's the way more casual fans try to manage CBT and payroll stuff.
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manfred
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Posts: 11,397
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Post by manfred on May 28, 2019 9:59:37 GMT -5
All I know is: 1) I am going to miss Pedey a ton. The mainstay of the best years of my life as a Red Sox fan, as much as Papi. 2) I appreciate all the more seeing a dude stand up there looking like he just stepped off a middle-school traveling team bus taking huuuuugge hacks and getting more out of his tiny body than most more gifted guys. 3) It bums me out that he is a longshot HOFer now. If he’d had just a normal decline, he’d accumulate the sort of career numbers that would’ve gotten him in. I think he deserves it (there are only a few 2B with equal or better numbers not in), but we’ll see.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 10:09:05 GMT -5
He tore a ligament in his thumb opening day of 2013 and played through it all season before having surgery after the World Series. The dude has busted his ass every play for 12+ years now and was an integral part of two World Series winners. Calling him selfish for not throwing in the towel before he’s ready is just plain ignorant.
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Post by patford on May 28, 2019 10:16:26 GMT -5
Not that it should make a huge difference, but it's an added level of frustration that it's not even that much money! $25M over the next two years is not some insurmountable hurdle. Just another reminder that the loyalty fans demand only goes one way, and that if you drew a Venn Diagram of fans who demand loyalty from players and the "Pedroia is a fraud who should just retire" WEEI-caller mongrels, it'd just be a circle. It still isn't clear to me whether or not the $25M (its salary cap issues for the Sox, not the money) is something the Sox are stuck with or not. So there is no way for the Sox to get out from under that ? And I certainly blame Pedroia for nothing. The Sox should make sure he gets what is owed to him.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 28, 2019 10:21:42 GMT -5
Not that it should make a huge difference, but it's an added level of frustration that it's not even that much money! $25M over the next two years is not some insurmountable hurdle. Just another reminder that the loyalty fans demand only goes one way, and that if you drew a Venn Diagram of fans who demand loyalty from players and the "Pedroia is a fraud who should just retire" WEEI-caller mongrels, it'd just be a circle. It still isn't clear to me whether or not the $25M (its salary cap issues for the Sox, not the money) is something the Sox are stuck with or not. So there is no way for the Sox to get out from under that ? And I certainly blame Pedroia for nothing. The Sox should make sure he gets what is owed to him.
Unless there's some sort of agreement, the Sox owe Pedroia $25m and it all goes against the cap whether or not he ever puts on the uni again. No, there isn't any way out of it.
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Post by patford on May 28, 2019 10:38:12 GMT -5
It still isn't clear to me whether or not the $25M (its salary cap issues for the Sox, not the money) is something the Sox are stuck with or not. So there is no way for the Sox to get out from under that ? And I certainly blame Pedroia for nothing. The Sox should make sure he gets what is owed to him.
Unless there's some sort of agreement, the Sox owe Pedroia $25m and it all goes against the cap whether or not he ever puts on the uni again. No, there isn't any way out of it. That's what I thought Chris was saying.
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Post by incandenza on May 28, 2019 10:39:31 GMT -5
Not to mention that Pedroia's contract was a below-market deal when he signed it, and that this is what he said once when asked if he felt he was underpaid:
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Post by libertine on May 28, 2019 10:44:39 GMT -5
Between this news and the news of Bill Buckner's passing it is not a good day to be a Red Sox fan. All careers come to ends, even the great ones, but this one does feel premature. But with the way Dustin played the game this early end to his career, sadly, was always very probable.
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