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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 16:39:48 GMT -5
Yeap, and signed Julio Lugo and won. These players you highlighted actually made a huge impact in winning, so whatever. Uhh, beg to differ on Kimbrel. He was awful and he was extremely lucky not to have blown multiple games in that run. And the won in '07 without a big name acquisition in the bullpen. So whatever. Mostly my issue though is that you're completely wrapped around the axle on the ideal construction of the Red Sox bullpen three and a half months from now, when that's clearly unknowable. You lost talent and replaced it with depth. That part is knowable, and you won with that formula last year. Kimbrel was lucky up until the world series last year. He was really good in the world series and in the regular season. He was a big part of the Sox winning.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 18, 2019 16:54:31 GMT -5
Uhh, beg to differ on Kimbrel. He was awful and he was extremely lucky not to have blown multiple games in that run. And the won in '07 without a big name acquisition in the bullpen. So whatever. Mostly my issue though is that you're completely wrapped around the axle on the ideal construction of the Red Sox bullpen three and a half months from now, when that's clearly unknowable. You lost talent and replaced it with depth. That part is knowable, and you won with that formula last year. Kimbrel was lucky up until the world series last year. He was really good in the world series and in the regular season. He was a big part of the Sox winning. From the beginning of August last season he had a 4.15 ERA (3.22 FIP) and was giving up 6.2 BB/9. In the postseason he had a 5.91 ERA (6.54 FIP) and gave up 6.75 BB/9. His World Series line was 4.1 3 2 2 2 2 with a 4.15 ERA. Yeah, never coulda done it without that guy... PS. Looking this up made be so glad again that we did not sign him, but also annoyed again that he thought he'd be able to get the world's best reliever contract ever and his mis-reading of the market cost the Red Sox a draft pick.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 17:08:21 GMT -5
From what I read, the Red Sox were interested in re-signing Kimbrel. Then they heard his insane contract demands and just said goodbye and signed Eovaldi instead.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 18, 2019 17:33:47 GMT -5
From what I read, the Red Sox were interested in re-signing Kimbrel. Then they heard his insane contract demands and just said goodbye and signed Eovaldi instead. Well in that case I'm glad he misread the market, otherwise we mighta re-signed him.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 18, 2019 17:57:51 GMT -5
You lost talent and replaced it with depth. That part is knowable, and you won with that formula last year. Kimbrel was lucky up until the world series last year. He was really good in the world series and in the regular season. He was a big part of the Sox winning. From the beginning of August last season he had a 4.15 ERA (3.22 FIP) and was giving up 6.2 BB/9. In the postseason he had a 5.91 ERA (6.54 FIP) and gave up 6.75 BB/9. His World Series line was 4.1 3 2 2 2 2 with a 4.15 ERA. Yeah, never coulda done it without that guy... PS. Looking this up made be so glad again that we did not sign him, but also annoyed again that he thought he'd be able to get the world's best reliever contract ever and his mis-reading of the market cost the Red Sox a draft pick. He was worth 2.3 bWAR last year, but paint the picture black if you'd like.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 18, 2019 18:14:02 GMT -5
From what I read, the Red Sox were interested in re-signing Kimbrel. Then they heard his insane contract demands and just said goodbye and signed Eovaldi instead. Where did you read that?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 18, 2019 18:48:00 GMT -5
i am not gonna fart in Kimbrel's general direction. He was a key component to us winning 3 division championships, one of which turned into a championship. Because he wasn't as big a factor in 2018 is really kind of shortsighted. He will always have the burden of costing a lot (prospects) to get him here, but that is the people's burden, not his. He was the first guy cheering Sale to finish off the Dodgers, I think that says alot.
Pedro is right in that we could use a guy like that right now. I don't know what the cost should be, but he was a great Red Sox to me.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 18:54:12 GMT -5
I am so ready for this game - and hoping our bats are busy. March onward and upward, team!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 19:34:16 GMT -5
No one has really unpacked the bats yet on this trip...pitchers ruling!
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Post by manfred on Jun 18, 2019 19:38:21 GMT -5
It is hard to imagine winning last year without Kimbrel, and I’d be one of the first to criticize much of his season. First off, as we see this year, a lot is lost sliding each guy up a position. If Barnes and Brasier were floating more like last year, you have a stronger pen. Additionally, for whatever Kimbrel’s inconsistency, the guy has a track record as a dominant closer, so teams have to play accordingly. I feel like the thing people overlook when they pooh pooh elite closers is the way they change the 8 innings they don’t appear in. Just think about the Royals pen in their day or the Yankees with Mo (or now): if you are down one or two by the 5th, the pressure builds as you know that 9th is a serious struggle (or in cases like the Royals, 7th, 8th, and 9th). I really believe Kimbrel was that kind of closer, putting added pressure on the opponent’s offense.
Anyway, I am fine with not signing him, but it is not because he didn’t do what they got him for. Sox titles came with Foulke, Koji, and Kimbrel, all dominant at least in stretches.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 18, 2019 19:46:39 GMT -5
Come on offense...lets pick up the pace !!!
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Post by manfred on Jun 18, 2019 19:50:40 GMT -5
I can’t watch and am following on gameday. Does Pineda have anything? According to this, he is low-90s with his fastball. Before injuries he was high 90s, right?
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,511
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Post by cdj on Jun 18, 2019 19:50:49 GMT -5
I think Kimbrel was an important part of the team and the premier example of a successful reliever trade the Sox made
Here’s the thing though- in the successful one they still surrendered a ton of control on what appears to be a quality young lefty starter (on top of other guys who seem to be busting, thankfully for the Sox). Kimbrel came here and gave us 2 good years and 1 dominant one. If I’m being honest he kind of underperformed on my expectations most of the time and that’s our very best deal for a significant reliever that I can remember
Idk, maybe they’ve just given me PTSD w some of the deals they’ve made. It’s across different FO too, it’s not just limited to Dombrowski
It’s just such a volatile position in an intense market that it’s tough for me to justify them spending significant assets on a reliever. I honestly like what they’ve done this year for the most part. Just my opinion
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 18, 2019 19:59:45 GMT -5
I can’t watch and am following on gameday. Does Pineda have anything? According to this, he is low-90s with his fastball. Before injuries he was high 90s, right? He’s moving it in and out, up and down pretty good. Nothing spectacular though. I’d expect them to start hitting him any time.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 18, 2019 20:02:10 GMT -5
come on Benni......dang
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 20:04:46 GMT -5
More reliever talk - some interesting comments in this thread. When I think of low drama relievers, Foulke and Koji come to mind for sure. They may be more the exception than the rule (remember Don "Two Pack" Stanhouse, who used to drive Earl Weaver crazy). Kimbrel had fine results, but we had lots of discussions here when he was in big save situations - few I can recall were slam dunk and clean.
As to what you asked, manfred - I am watching - he has our hitters "not controlling the zone" as Cora likes to say - swinging at some bad balls. Not sure if it is deceptive (his stuff tonight), but he is making our hitters look pretty bad (and yes, we've seen this act before this season). But it's early yet!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 18, 2019 20:05:33 GMT -5
And just like that, as I was typing my response to manfred, Devers did some magic.
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Post by hammerhead on Jun 18, 2019 20:06:03 GMT -5
Anyone know what what's her name said that was so offensive she needed to apologize on NESN
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 18, 2019 20:06:10 GMT -5
Yes !!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 18, 2019 20:06:30 GMT -5
I have no idea how Devers got to that. It looked like it was going to be a swing and miss.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 20:07:31 GMT -5
From what I read, the Red Sox were interested in re-signing Kimbrel. Then they heard his insane contract demands and just said goodbye and signed Eovaldi instead. Where did you read that? I have no idea. I read a lot and didn't save a link.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 18, 2019 20:09:28 GMT -5
Anyone know what what's her name said that was so offensive she needed to apologize on NESN Kacie McDonnell. Not sure what she’s apologizing for.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 20:10:02 GMT -5
Anyone know what what's her name said that was so offensive she needed to apologize on NESN I've been trying to find out but am having trouble.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 18, 2019 20:14:33 GMT -5
OK found it. Sorry for the insensitive posting. Please hide your eyes and cover your ears.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 18, 2019 20:20:06 GMT -5
OK found it. Sorry for the insensitive posting. Please hide your eyes and cover your ears. HaHaHaHa..........that is funny to me and I am of Italian descent. We used to have way worse than that nicknames for those type of shirts, which I won't repeat.
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