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7/2-7/4 Red Sox @ Blue Jays Series Thread
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 4, 2019 13:51:54 GMT -5
Is it possible that we can leave all of this trade Mookie and dismantle the team garbage in one thread that I never have to open instead of having it spill into every thread while making me never want to visit this site?
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Post by Don Caballero on Jul 4, 2019 14:45:41 GMT -5
D. They're not winning the World Series this year. I'm very comfortable saying that. Boy thank God they won it last season or I can't imagine the kind of hot takes that would drown every gameday thread.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 14:52:05 GMT -5
I hope the Sox win 11 out of the next 14 and make this a non conversation starter. The Sox are forcing this talk because they are playing like a mediocre mess right now. You're waiting for Mookie and JDM to get hot, but it hasn't happened yet.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 4, 2019 14:55:24 GMT -5
Is it possible that we can leave all of this trade Mookie and dismantle the team garbage in one thread that I never have to open instead of having it spill into every thread while making me never want to visit this site? Here's the thing, even if trading Betts were a good idea, this team is run by Dave Dombrowski. Dombrowski has been around for a few decades now, he's got a pretty clear philosophy on team building, and that philosophy is absolutely not "trade away your best player to restock the farm system".
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 4, 2019 14:57:26 GMT -5
Here's our line up - we get both Leon and CVaz...Benny sitting this one out. And...NO NUNEZ! Mookie Betts, RF Rafael Devers, 3B Xander Bogaerts, SS J.D. Martinez, LF Brock Holt, 2B Christian Vazquez, DH Jackie Bradley Jr., CF Michael Chavis, 1B Sandy Leon, C Hector Velazquez, RHP (1-3, 5.31 ERA) Read more at: nesn.com/2019/07/red-sox-vs-blue-jays-lineups-sandy-leon-in-andrew-benintendi-out/
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 14:57:52 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 4, 2019 14:58:54 GMT -5
D. They're not winning the World Series this year. I'm very comfortable saying that. Boy thank God they won it last season or I can't imagine the kind of hot takes that would drown every gameday thread. I feel like it actually goes the other way, like it takes a truly spoiled fanbase to want to blow up the team any time it's odds of winning the World Series drop into the single digits.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 15:05:52 GMT -5
Boy thank God they won it last season or I can't imagine the kind of hot takes that would drown every gameday thread. I feel like it actually goes the other way, like it takes a truly spoiled fanbase to want to blow up the team any time it's odds of winning the World Series drop into the single digits. I mean, when you take Fangraphs as gospel and always take their odds over everything, you can say this. However, this team has had and should have huge expectations and has fallen short of them. It's not like the Fanbase wanted to blow things up in 2016 when the club had a rising Devers, and Benintendi, Mookie, Xander, and Price locked up and under team control for years at a time.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 4, 2019 15:08:21 GMT -5
Oh thank god the points continue to be made because we had no idea what anyone was thinking.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 4, 2019 15:11:04 GMT -5
D. They're not winning the World Series this year. I'm very comfortable saying that. Boy thank God they won it last season or I can't imagine the kind of hot takes that would drown every gameday thread. How is that a hot take? They're barely over .500 in July and 2 out of the playoffs entirely with multiple teams ahead of them. That's not exactly a scorching hot take. The bullpen is awful, the offense is brilliant, the depth is terrible, and the starters have been mediocre.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 15:13:36 GMT -5
Oh thank god the points continue to be made because we had no idea what anyone was thinking. When you come out and call a fan base spoiled because a team is falling short of expectations, don't expect no blow back, dude. The Sox are at a very tepid point where it can go one direction or the other very easily. It deserves to be talked about.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 4, 2019 15:15:30 GMT -5
I feel like it actually goes the other way, like it takes a truly spoiled fanbase to want to blow up the team any time it's odds of winning the World Series drop into the single digits. I mean, when you take Fangraphs as gospel and always take their odds over everything, you can say this. However, this team has had and should have huge expectations and has fallen short of them. It's not like the Fanbase wanted to blow things up in 2016 when the club had a rising Devers, and Benintendi, Mookie, Xander, and Price locked up and under team control for years at a time. What else am I supposed to look at?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 4, 2019 15:18:47 GMT -5
Oh thank god the points continue to be made because we had no idea what anyone was thinking. When you come out and call a fan base spoiled because a team is falling short of expectations, don't expect no blow back, dude. The Sox are at a very tepid point where it can go one direction or the other very easily. It deserves to be talked about. It has nothing to do with me. I left for 24 hours and there are about another 100 posts in 4 different threads that have been repeated after every loss for 2 weeks.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 4, 2019 15:19:23 GMT -5
I mean, when you take Fangraphs as gospel and always take their odds over everything, you can say this. However, this team has had and should have huge expectations and has fallen short of them. It's not like the Fanbase wanted to blow things up in 2016 when the club had a rising Devers, and Benintendi, Mookie, Xander, and Price locked up and under team control for years at a time. What else am I supposed to look at? Inside of your heart where you just know better than any stat.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 15:19:36 GMT -5
I mean, when you take Fangraphs as gospel and always take their odds over everything, you can say this. However, this team has had and should have huge expectations and has fallen short of them. It's not like the Fanbase wanted to blow things up in 2016 when the club had a rising Devers, and Benintendi, Mookie, Xander, and Price locked up and under team control for years at a time. What else am I supposed to look at? Don't give me one source and post that as what the Sox odds are at. Im sure Vegas and plenty of other betting websites have plenty of other odds. I just hate the one source of information and that's what we need to follow. I wish I knew where to tell you to go, but I'm not a betting man.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 4, 2019 15:22:42 GMT -5
Boy thank God they won it last season or I can't imagine the kind of hot takes that would drown every gameday thread. I feel like it actually goes the other way, like it takes a truly spoiled fanbase to want to blow up the team any time it's odds of winning the World Series drop into the single digits. I've said time and time again it's completely dependent on if the organization feels they're capable of re- signing him no matter the cost. It's not ridiculous if they're about 4 out entirely with multiple teams ahead of them at the deadline and then look for kings ransome for said best player. It probably hurts your odds next year, but if you know he's gone the year after then you better win because you will not get a better chance to stockpile your system. It's not like people are saying trade Betts after his 2nd or 3rd season. They're calling this season a lost one and then you're weighing keeping Betts for one season over loading up with some of the top prospects in the game, whom you could later flip. It's funny because if this team had Wander Franco or Vlad Jr in its system, I guarantee this board would freak out if they traded them this off-season for 1 year of Mookie Betts.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 15:23:05 GMT -5
When you come out and call a fan base spoiled because a team is falling short of expectations, don't expect no blow back, dude. The Sox are at a very tepid point where it can go one direction or the other very easily. It deserves to be talked about. It has nothing to do with me. I left for 24 hours and there are about another 100 posts in 4 different threads that have been repeated after every loss for 2 weeks. I only started talking about the Sox teetering just last night. I've said repeatedly for weeks that it's too quick to sell, up until this point. Even now it's too quick to sell, but the outlook isn't looking great when Hector Velazquez is starting and you need to win a series on the road against a bad team.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 4, 2019 15:27:47 GMT -5
I feel like it actually goes the other way, like it takes a truly spoiled fanbase to want to blow up the team any time it's odds of winning the World Series drop into the single digits. It's funny because if this team had Wander Franco or Vlad Jr in its system, I guarantee this board would freak out if they traded them this off-season for 1 year of Mookie Betts. Yeah well they would be right to, which is why those trades aren't happening.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 4, 2019 15:31:20 GMT -5
Is it possible that we can leave all of this trade Mookie and dismantle the team garbage in one thread that I never have to open instead of having it spill into every thread while making me never want to visit this site? Here's the thing, even if trading Betts were a good idea, this team is run by Dave Dombrowski. Dombrowski has been around for a few decades now, he's got a pretty clear philosophy on team building, and that philosophy is absolutely not "trade away your best player to restock the farm system". Forgot to post on this, but if the team is at a point where it's a good idea to sell, and Dave Dombrowski doesn't sell, then he should be criticized for it because he could have wasted a good opportunity. Dave Dombrowski has been a part of teams selling before too, go ask the Tigers before he left that organization.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 4, 2019 15:39:05 GMT -5
I feel like it actually goes the other way, like it takes a truly spoiled fanbase to want to blow up the team any time it's odds of winning the World Series drop into the single digits. I've said time and time again it's completely dependent on if the organization feels they're capable of re- signing him no matter the cost. It's not ridiculous if they're about 4 out entirely with multiple teams ahead of them at the deadline and then look for kings ransome for said best player. It probably hurts your odds next year, but if you know he's gone the year after then you better win because you will not get a better chance to stockpile your system. It's not like people are saying trade Betts after his 2nd or 3rd season. They're calling this season a lost one and then you're weighing keeping Betts for one season over loading up with some of the top prospects in the game, whom you could later flip. It's funny because if this team had Wander Franco or Vlad Jr in its system, I guarantee this board would freak out if they traded them this off-season for 1 year of Mookie Betts.Correct. Because that would be a lousy trade. Which is why those teams are not going to trade Wander Franco or Vlad Jr. for 1 year of Mookie Betts. Is this like a motte-and-bailey thing? redsoxfan2: It may make sense to trade Mookie Betts. sensible people: That is insane. redsoxfan2: Woah woah woah you're telling me you wouldn't even trade him straight up for Mike Trout? Seems a little unreasonable to me.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 4, 2019 15:40:33 GMT -5
And for everyone complaining about 2020, what about 2021? Or do we only care about it in 2020? I care more about 2020 than I do 2021 because I think that Sale and Price are likely to be better pitchers than in 2021. The core of the team is in its prime now. We have no idea what the team will look like in 2021. If Mookie bolts then they take his money and spend it elsewhere for 2021. On whom, who knows? 2020 is more forecastable now than 2021 is. Eventually 2021 will come clearer into view, and if JD Martinez and Mookie aren't on that team, that's about 50 plus million the Red Sox have to go shopping with. We've seen two polar extreme opposites of what the Red Sox have been. We saw the best case scenario last year with 108 wins and the Series championship. This year's team probably wins 86 at it lowest and 93 at its highest so we'll say 90 and just about everything has gone wrong. Average that out and what do you got? And factor in the team will actually have spring training next season and things aren't as likely to go as bad as they have this season or as swimmingly as it did in 2018. What's that? 99 wins? Probably won't be THAT fortunate, but 95 is certainly possible and that'll either get you a Wild Card game or they do win those 99 and they have a shot at the division. Either way it's a high quality team. The Sox would be foolish to punt on that. I worry about both Price and Sale each and every year moving forward. Price because of that elbow and Sale just because he's a thin guy. The organization gave Sale 5 so he better be good for 4 years. JDM will be on this team if he does not opt out this year, or he re-signs with the team. You either lose him after this year or not at all. The organization needs to figure out what his plans are and if he's in their budget. If he does re-up I highly suspect that kills the budget to re-sign Mookie Betts. It would be a pleasant surprise if they retained both. So, if JDM plans on opting out and wants more than you're willing to pay you move on unless you want to pay him and then let Betts walk the year after. I want Betts long-term, so really, it's more about trading off JDM then it is Mookie. I'm mostly talking about from the front office point of view if they don't plan on retaining Betts after 2020. I highly doubt both guys won't be here by 2021. I highly doubt both will as well. I think the team can find a guy whose not as good to fill the spot and improve in other areas to compensate for the loss.
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Post by marrcus on Jul 4, 2019 15:40:38 GMT -5
..Benny sitting this one out. " ------------------------------------ While that was certainly predictable JD playing for a few games in a row on a concrete OF could leave him a basket case. I think I'd like to avoid that if I could. As long as he's not hurt Benny needs to figure things out quickly.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 4, 2019 15:42:49 GMT -5
I've said time and time again it's completely dependent on if the organization feels they're capable of re- signing him no matter the cost. It's not ridiculous if they're about 4 out entirely with multiple teams ahead of them at the deadline and then look for kings ransome for said best player. It probably hurts your odds next year, but if you know he's gone the year after then you better win because you will not get a better chance to stockpile your system. It's not like people are saying trade Betts after his 2nd or 3rd season. They're calling this season a lost one and then you're weighing keeping Betts for one season over loading up with some of the top prospects in the game, whom you could later flip. It's funny because if this team had Wander Franco or Vlad Jr in its system, I guarantee this board would freak out if they traded them this off-season for 1 year of Mookie Betts.Correct. Because that would be a lousy trade. Which is why those teams are not going to trade Wander Franco or Vlad Jr. for 1 year of Mookie Betts. Is this like a motte-and-bailey thing? redsoxfan2: It may make sense to trade Mookie Betts. sensible people: That is insane. redsoxfan2: Woah woah woah you're telling me you wouldn't even trade him straight up for Mike Trout? Seems a little unreasonable to me. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth now. Every theoretical trade I've mentioned is predicated on a package surrounding a top 10 prospect in baseball. If you're not getting that then I'm not sure it's worth it. Depends entirely on the return. I do believe a year and a half of Betts to a desperate team makes this possible. Edit: The Yankees got Torres from the Cubs for a half year of Chapman and Frazier from the Indians for 2 1/2 years of Andrew Miller. It's not unprecedented for 1 1/2 years for an MVP for a team who is in the playoff race and feels they can make noise.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 4, 2019 15:44:06 GMT -5
On this day in '67, Sox had just won their 4th straight, improving to 40-34. Excitement was building & attendance was up.
And then, they lost 5 straight.
On the other hand, I hate Vazquez at DH. And Hector is starting, why? PS Hembree is back.
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Post by incandenza on Jul 4, 2019 15:49:31 GMT -5
..Benny sitting this one out. "------------------------------------ While that was certainly predictable JD playing for a few games in a row on a concrete OF could leave him a basket case. I think I'd like to avoid that if I could. As long as he's not hurt Benny needs to figure things out quickly. He's gotta have an injury issue. Wasn't there some weird stat where he's unaccountably much slower than last season? And he's getting these off days pretty regularly even though he hasn't been, like, needs-to-clear-his-head bad - 101 wRC+ for the season, and he was actually doing pretty well from the time he moved to second in the batting order until 6/24 - 122 wRC+, same as last season. Then he had 6 of the next 7 days off, plays two days (going 0 for 9) and now he's off again.
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