SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
7/15-7/18 Red Sox vs. Blue Jays Series Thread
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 17, 2019 4:15:09 GMT -5
Probably preaching to the converted here, but the issue is quite clear. With the starters just about incapable of going more than 5 or 6 innings, the pressure on the bullpen has been enormous. Hembree is just one card from the deck: three games in a row and he blew up. No one should be surprised. Brasier was on track for 76 games before they sent him off for a rest! This is a guy who had pitched a grand total of 43 major league innings prior to this year. We can speculate all we want - smoothness of the ball, hangover from last season's playoffs, injuries, whatever. With the average game ratio of relievers to starters so high this will be a continuing problem. Who are you going to trade? Porcello? Who would give anything of value for him with way he's pitching? Everyone else are viable parts of next years team. They are not going to wave the white flag on 2020 with such a small window ie aging Price, Sale, JDM etc. Contracts coming due with JBJ and Mr. Betts. I just don't know why 2020 is the end all be all team that everyone is focused on. You have Xander, Sale, Price, Eduardo, Benny, Devers, and Chavis controllable past 2020. That's a pretty good start to a franchise right there. You sell off Workman, Barnes, Hembree (probably can't do it now since he looks hurt), Porcello (for whatever you can take here), JBJ, JDM, and you listen to offers to see if someone blows you away on Mookie Betts. Prefer to keep him, but he's dead set on free agency. Go find future back end rotation options and future bullpen type pieces. Go find future production from a young outfielder type (preferably one who can play CF). You're not blowing it up, you're resetting essentially. That's how it would need to be done. I don't know if it will be done and if Dombrowski will even do it, but that's what you'd do. Yes I would trade Workman and Barnes, even though they have team control past this year. Workman is so up and down throughout the years, and this is probably the best time you have to sell a guy like Barnes. I'd expect good to great value on both, based on Barnes huge strikeout numbers and Workman's exceptional results this year. If you don't get it, you keep them.
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on Jul 17, 2019 4:28:11 GMT -5
2020 is important because you simply can't replace Mookie and JDM on the free agent market without agreeing to more high dollar long term contracts... That's if you can replace them at all. If you trade either or both not to mention Barnes, JBJ and Workman you just can't afford to replace their production and stay below the luxury tax which they're hoping to reset.
I agree, no one is untouchable if you're completely blown away. But being blown away means that you need to get back major League ready studs. That's the only way it makes sense and I just don't see what teams are going to trade those guys.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 17, 2019 5:06:52 GMT -5
Hembree is about to be put back on the IL, Brasier will probably be recalled.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 17, 2019 5:11:48 GMT -5
This is why you are inconsistent as a team. No one is pitching well besides David Price and Brandon Workman on this team.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 17, 2019 9:12:54 GMT -5
This is why you are inconsistent as a team. No one is pitching well besides David Price and Brandon Workman on this team. You know, if that error was ruled a base hit (not that it was wrongfully scored), David Price's last start would have inflated his numbers. Overall, he's been "solid" 6/13 vs Texas - 1.1 IP 6R 6ER 6/18 @ Min - 5.0 IP 1R 1ER 6/25 vs CHW - 6.0 IP 3R 2ER 7/2 @ TOR - 6.0 IP 2R 2ER 7/7 @ DET - 5.0 IP 1R 1ER 7/14 vs LAD - 5.0 IP 4R 1ER (3 runs came on a HR) Horrible start vs Texas and LAD and a pedestrian start against the White Sox. He was pretty good against Toronto, Detroit and Minnesota. With that said, solid is wonderful and all, but his inability to go deep into games is helping to tax this bullpen.
|
|
|
Post by patford on Jul 17, 2019 9:24:23 GMT -5
Probably preaching to the converted here, but the issue is quite clear. With the starters just about incapable of going more than 5 or 6 innings, the pressure on the bullpen has been enormous. Hembree is just one card from the deck: three games in a row and he blew up. No one should be surprised. Brasier was on track for 76 games before they sent him off for a rest! This is a guy who had pitched a grand total of 43 major league innings prior to this year. We can speculate all we want - smoothness of the ball, hangover from last season's playoffs, injuries, whatever. With the average game ratio of relievers to starters so high this will be a continuing problem. I anticipate this becoming a problem for many teams in MLB. Particularly the Rays and the Yankees. I honestly don't understand the strange split between handling the starters like fragile glass and dumping tons of work on the bullpen. I suppose it is economic. Starters make vastly more money in most cases.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 17, 2019 9:25:17 GMT -5
Who are you going to trade? Porcello? Who would give anything of value for him with way he's pitching? Everyone else are viable parts of next years team. They are not going to wave the white flag on 2020 with such a small window ie aging Price, Sale, JDM etc. Contracts coming due with JBJ and Mr. Betts. I just don't know why 2020 is the end all be all team that everyone is focused on. You have Xander, Sale, Price, Eduardo, Benny, Devers, and Chavis controllable past 2020. That's a pretty good start to a franchise right there. You sell off Workman, Barnes, Hembree (probably can't do it now since he looks hurt), Porcello (for whatever you can take here), JBJ, JDM, and you listen to offers to see if someone blows you away on Mookie Betts. Prefer to keep him, but he's dead set on free agency. Go find future back end rotation options and future bullpen type pieces. Go find future production from a young outfielder type (preferably one who can play CF). You're not blowing it up, you're resetting essentially. That's how it would need to be done. I don't know if it will be done and if Dombrowski will even do it, but that's what you'd do. Yes I would trade Workman and Barnes, even though they have team control past this year. Workman is so up and down throughout the years, and this is probably the best time you have to sell a guy like Barnes. I'd expect good to great value on both, based on Barnes huge strikeout numbers and Workman's exceptional results this year. If you don't get it, you keep them. 2020 is a huge season because as hammerhead said you lose two players who are very difficult to replace. When you think of the Red Sox in 2018 the names Mookie Betts and JD Martinez leap out at you. When they are on top of the their game you see the impact they have. Mookie and JD Martinez are having indifferent years for their lofty standards, and fortunately Devers, X, and Vazquez have blossomed and Chavis has come along and they've pick up the slack, but if Mookie and Martinez were anything like they were last year I doubt the Red Sox would be stranding as many guys as they have. I think they'd be capitalizing on their opportunities more. And I don't know that you're going to find guys who have that kind of ceiling to impact the way Mookie and JDM do. I would think Mookie will bounce back next year to be more like his 2016 self (if not epic 2018 self) and I think JDM has had some back issues hampering him. Without that hopefully, he's more like his 2018 self next season. That's a ton of production that's hard to replace. It takes away their margin of error on offense because offensively they MUST capitalize on just about every opportunity they have. They have no choice because the pitching, as you point out, is awful. Or as Eck says, "Yuck!"
|
|
bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
|
Post by bosox on Jul 17, 2019 9:49:47 GMT -5
2020 is a huge season because as hammerhead said you lose two players who are very difficult to replace. When you think of the Red Sox in 2018 the names Mookie Betts and JD Martinez leap out at you. When they are on top of the their game you see the impact they have. Mookie and JD Martinez are having indifferent years for their lofty standards, and fortunately Devers, X, and Vazquez have blossomed and Chavis has come along and they've pick up the slack, but if Mookie and Martinez were anything like they were last year I doubt the Red Sox would be stranding as many guys as they have. I think they'd be capitalizing on their opportunities more. And I don't know that you're going to find guys who have that kind of ceiling to impact the way Mookie and JDM do. I would think Mookie will bounce back next year to be more like his 2016 self (if not epic 2018 self) and I think JDM has had some back issues hampering him. Without that hopefully, he's more like his 2018 self next season. That's a ton of production that's hard to replace. It takes away their margin of error on offense because offensively they MUST capitalize on just about every opportunity they have. They have no choice because the pitching, as you point out, is awful. Or as Eck says, "Yuck!" That's a good point. However, if he opts out, how much more should the Sox offer him? This is probably for the JDM thread but how much do you trust him returning to pre-2019 JDM (whether back injury related or the start of a decline in his 30's) and if he opts out, can the Sox afford the risk to shell out more money on probably a longer term.
|
|
|
Post by Canseco on Jul 17, 2019 10:11:57 GMT -5
If JD opts out, then sayonara. That cash can be more wisely invested over the long haul. See: Devers, Betts, Rodriguez, etc.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 17, 2019 10:32:46 GMT -5
2020 is a huge season because as hammerhead said you lose two players who are very difficult to replace. When you think of the Red Sox in 2018 the names Mookie Betts and JD Martinez leap out at you. When they are on top of the their game you see the impact they have. Mookie and JD Martinez are having indifferent years for their lofty standards, and fortunately Devers, X, and Vazquez have blossomed and Chavis has come along and they've pick up the slack, but if Mookie and Martinez were anything like they were last year I doubt the Red Sox would be stranding as many guys as they have. I think they'd be capitalizing on their opportunities more. And I don't know that you're going to find guys who have that kind of ceiling to impact the way Mookie and JDM do. I would think Mookie will bounce back next year to be more like his 2016 self (if not epic 2018 self) and I think JDM has had some back issues hampering him. Without that hopefully, he's more like his 2018 self next season. That's a ton of production that's hard to replace. It takes away their margin of error on offense because offensively they MUST capitalize on just about every opportunity they have. They have no choice because the pitching, as you point out, is awful. Or as Eck says, "Yuck!" That's a good point. However, if he opts out, how much more should the Sox offer him? This is probably for the JDM thread but how much do you trust him returning to pre-2019 JDM (whether back injury related or the start of a decline in his 30's) and if he opts out, can the Sox afford the risk to shell out more money on probably a longer term. I don't think we'll ever see last year JDM again. I think the last two years were something unique and special and the 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2019 seasons are more in-line as to what to expect.
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 17, 2019 10:52:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 17, 2019 11:24:01 GMT -5
This is the worst way to double-count losses. Who is double counting losses? I am saying exactly what our record is, and how poorly (which is really mystifying) that the team is playing at home. I am calling it like I see it - as always. What's the double count you refer to? The team's home record is already reflected in their overall record, and to the extent that a worse than expected home record is predictive of anything, it points to future positive regression. Let me put it another way, if the team had the same overall record, but their home/road win/loss record was more in line with the standard home field advantage you expect to see for a team that plays in Fenway, would you feel any differently about their chances?
|
|
|
Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 17, 2019 11:36:05 GMT -5
Who is double counting losses? I am saying exactly what our record is, and how poorly (which is really mystifying) that the team is playing at home. I am calling it like I see it - as always. What's the double count you refer to? The team's home record is already reflected in their overall record, and to the extent that a worse than expected home record is predictive of anything, it points to future positive regression. Let me put it another way, if the team had the same overall record, but their home/road win/loss record was more in line with the standard home field advantage you expect to see for a team that plays in Fenway, would you feel any differently about their chances? No, due to the overall mess of a season with all parts having significant issues. But playing poorly at home to me reduces the chance they will right the ship significantly in the rest of the season.
|
|
|
Post by hammerhead on Jul 17, 2019 11:36:51 GMT -5
That Weei article also says that Eovaldi isn't throwing yet.... Josh Smith... Cashner is defined by yesterday's game... It's unreadable
|
|
bosox
Veteran
Posts: 2,117
|
Post by bosox on Jul 17, 2019 11:51:21 GMT -5
Hard to blame this on a lack of a copy editor as he can't even identify the correct player.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 11,501
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Jul 17, 2019 11:52:33 GMT -5
I know Cashner sucked yesterday but it was still a top 10 and maybe top 5 start out of a 5 man for the Sox this year lol. He’ll be a nice addition compared to what we’ve been forced to go with even if he’s back to his usual mediocre self.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 17, 2019 12:37:54 GMT -5
The team's home record is already reflected in their overall record, and to the extent that a worse than expected home record is predictive of anything, it points to future positive regression. Let me put it another way, if the team had the same overall record, but their home/road win/loss record was more in line with the standard home field advantage you expect to see for a team that plays in Fenway, would you feel any differently about their chances? No, due to the overall mess of a season with all parts having significant issues. But playing poorly at home to me reduces the chance they will right the ship significantly in the rest of the season.Again, unless there's some identifiable reason that they've been unexpectedly poor at home, I'm going to assume that they still have the same home field advantage that they always have.
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 17, 2019 17:09:32 GMT -5
I'm glad David Price is back to being a prima donna. Thus completing this team's metamorphosis into the 2018 Celtics. Would he be David Irving or Kyrie Price?
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 17, 2019 18:50:20 GMT -5
I'm glad David Price is back to being a prima donna. Thus completing this team's metamorphosis into the 2018 Celtics. Would he be David Irving or Kyrie Price? this seems a bit different though. If I understand this correctly, Eck was asked a question and responded in a way that can be summarized as unneeded, to say the least. He may have meant without malice, but it would just been easier to say "that's in the past" or "no comment". The words he used could be described as throwing shade. Coupled with the fact that it appears as though they were going to bury the hatchet and Eck backed out, well, I don't think Price looks bad here. I view Price as just setting the record straight here, I don't look at this like when it first blew up, when it was obvious he acted wrongly.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 17, 2019 18:53:54 GMT -5
would love to see ERod build on that wonderful last start......I think he will.
|
|
|
Post by kevfc89 on Jul 17, 2019 18:59:17 GMT -5
Devers is hitting some shots and not getting the babip luck lately
|
|
|
Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 17, 2019 18:59:58 GMT -5
I'm glad David Price is back to being a prima donna. Thus completing this team's metamorphosis into the 2018 Celtics. Would he be David Irving or Kyrie Price? this seems a bit different though. If I understand this correctly, Eck was asked a question and responded in a way that can be summarized as unneeded, to say the least. He may have meant without malice, but it would just been easier to say "that's in the past" or "no comment". The words he used could be described as throwing shade. Coupled with the fact that it appears as though they were going to bury the hatchet and Eck backed out, well, I don't think Price looks bad here. I view Price as just setting the record straight here, I don't look at this like when it first blew up, when it was obvious he acted wrongly. I'm not going to completely excuse Eck, but he's an honest guy and that's why most people love him. He was trying to answer the question because it was pertinent to his special. Again, Eck didn't have to answer it in the way that he did, but didn't Cora say it'll be kept between those two and then less than an hour later David was out blabbing his mouth? Not only could he have said, "talk to Eck" or "I'm done with this nonsense" he went off the deep end and went all in on bad mouthing Eck, including factually inaccurate statements. Like he brought up Stroman for no reason.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 17, 2019 19:02:03 GMT -5
what a player....Love Xander !!!
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 17, 2019 19:04:28 GMT -5
I'm not going to completely excuse Eck, but he's an honest guy and that's why most people love him. He was trying to answer the question because it was pertinent to his special. Again, Eck didn't have to answer it in the way that he did, but didn't Cora say it'll be kept between those two and then less than an hour later David was out blabbing his mouth? Not only could he have said, "talk to Eck" or "I'm done with this nonsense" he went off the deep end and went all in on bad mouthing Eck, including factually inaccurate statements. Like he brought up Stroman for no reason. that is fair. I think what have here is 2 stubborn, competitive guys, that wont budge and want to get the last word in.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 17, 2019 19:10:14 GMT -5
Smoak is slow...but that was gorgeous by JBJ
|
|
|