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2020 Vision: Position Players
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Post by Guidas on Oct 1, 2019 22:00:06 GMT -5
I think it still comes back to , if they think they are one maybe two players away from having a serious chance at being in the series, than yes the sox go for it and spend 250 mil plus, cause they have the revenues to support the salaries. BUT, does anyone on this site think they are that close? If not then why pay money penalties? It would be like burning a pile of money. The penalty gets no more WAR, no more runs scored. No more strikeouts. If they don't think they are that close then why not trade JDM too? He'll be going on 34 in 2021. I do. It all came down to starting pitching, and, inexplicably, not winning at home. If they want us to believe what they’re shoveling about Sale and Price ready to go in the spring, then go for it all as the offense was a force even with holes at 2nd and 1st. At least Eovaldi was back to throwing high 90s at the end of the year; now all he has to do is get his command back, which should come with a full spring, or so we’ve been told. So, OK - Sam Kennedy, John Henry and Tom Werner - if you really stand by your pronouncements that Sale and Price will be back to full strength , Eovaldi will regain his command and believe Eduardo will pitch like a 2 again, then why wouldn't you go for it? What this means is all you need is a #5 and #6 plus a bullpen arm or two. Let Chatham, Ramirez and Chavis fight over a second base platoon and use one of them as your utility guy. Either roll the dice with Dalbec at 1st (or again a platoon with him and Chavis) or buy a stopgap like Moustakis or Alonso. Shed Porcello if he won’t sign a 1 year $8M deal, and let Holt, Leon, Moreland, Pearce, and Hembree walk. If Porcello isn’t your discounted #5 then go get Odorizzi or break the bank and buy Cole to really guarantee a killer staff (and give you a nice hedge if you want to trade Price after 2020 picking up about $7-10M a year of his salary). If everyone’s as healthy as you say you win another WS and then can make decisions on Mookie and JBJ after next season. So yeah, I’m that guy.
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Post by soxjim on Oct 1, 2019 23:46:49 GMT -5
If they don't think they are that close then why not trade JDM too? He'll be going on 34 in 2021. I do. It all came down to starting pitching, and, inexplicably, not winning at home. If they want us to believe what they’re shoveling about Sale and Price ready to go in the spring, then go for it all as the offense was a force even with holes at 2nd and 1st. At least Eovaldi was back to throwing high 90s at the end of the year; now all he has to do is get his command back, which should come with a full spring, or so we’ve been told. So, OK - Sam Kennedy, John Henry and Tom Werner - if you really stand by your pronouncements that Sale and Price will be back to full strength , Eovaldi will regain his command and believe Eduardo will pitch like a 2 again, then why wouldn't you go for it? What this means is all you need is a #5 and #6 plus a bullpen arm or two. Let Chatham, Ramirez and Chavis fight over a second base platoon and use one of them as your utility guy. Either roll the dice with Dalbec at 1st (or again a platoon with him and Chavis) or buy a stopgap like Moustakis or Alonso. Shed Porcello if he won’t sign a 1 year $8M deal, and let Holt, Leon, Moreland, Pearce, and Hembree walk. If Porcello isn’t your discounted #5 then go get Odorizzi or break the bank and buy Cole to really guarantee a killer staff (and give you a nice hedge if you want to trade Price after 2020 picking up about $7-10M a year of his salary). If everyone’s as healthy as you say you win another WS and then can make decisions on Mookie and JBJ after next season. So yeah, I’m that guy. Why stop at Cole? Why don't those cheap bastards get Rendon and Smith and Castellanos too? Mookie could use a little more protection. After all the organization "owes" it to him.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 1, 2019 23:54:27 GMT -5
If they don't think they are that close then why not trade JDM too? He'll be going on 34 in 2021. I do. It all came down to starting pitching, and, inexplicably, not winning at home. If they want us to believe what they’re shoveling about Sale and Price ready to go in the spring, then go for it all as the offense was a force even with holes at 2nd and 1st. At least Eovaldi was back to throwing high 90s at the end of the year; now all he has to do is get his command back, which should come with a full spring, or so we’ve been told. So, OK - Sam Kennedy, John Henry and Tom Werner - if you really stand by your pronouncements that Sale and Price will be back to full strength , Eovaldi will regain his command and believe Eduardo will pitch like a 2 again, then why wouldn't you go for it? What this means is all you need is a #5 and #6 plus a bullpen arm or two. Let Chatham, Ramirez and Chavis fight over a second base platoon and use one of them as your utility guy. Either roll the dice with Dalbec at 1st (or again a platoon with him and Chavis) or buy a stopgap like Moustakis or Alonso. Shed Porcello if he won’t sign a 1 year $8M deal, and let Holt, Leon, Moreland, Pearce, and Hembree walk. If Porcello isn’t your discounted #5 then go get Odorizzi or break the bank and buy Cole to really guarantee a killer staff (and give you a nice hedge if you want to trade Price after 2020 picking up about $7-10M a year of his salary). If everyone’s as healthy as you say you win another WS and then can make decisions on Mookie and JBJ after next season. So yeah, I’m that guy. BTW, Pearce is probably walking - into retirement. I read an article (which I could remember where) in which he says he's strongly considering retirement. The rest of your post is fantasy. They've made it pretty clear that they won't be spending big bucks on outside help and it's questionable how much they'll be willing to spend on the guys who were already on their roster.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 2, 2019 9:25:42 GMT -5
I do. It all came down to starting pitching, and, inexplicably, not winning at home. If they want us to believe what they’re shoveling about Sale and Price ready to go in the spring, then go for it all as the offense was a force even with holes at 2nd and 1st. At least Eovaldi was back to throwing high 90s at the end of the year; now all he has to do is get his command back, which should come with a full spring, or so we’ve been told. So, OK - Sam Kennedy, John Henry and Tom Werner - if you really stand by your pronouncements that Sale and Price will be back to full strength , Eovaldi will regain his command and believe Eduardo will pitch like a 2 again, then why wouldn't you go for it? What this means is all you need is a #5 and #6 plus a bullpen arm or two. Let Chatham, Ramirez and Chavis fight over a second base platoon and use one of them as your utility guy. Either roll the dice with Dalbec at 1st (or again a platoon with him and Chavis) or buy a stopgap like Moustakis or Alonso. Shed Porcello if he won’t sign a 1 year $8M deal, and let Holt, Leon, Moreland, Pearce, and Hembree walk. If Porcello isn’t your discounted #5 then go get Odorizzi or break the bank and buy Cole to really guarantee a killer staff (and give you a nice hedge if you want to trade Price after 2020 picking up about $7-10M a year of his salary). If everyone’s as healthy as you say you win another WS and then can make decisions on Mookie and JBJ after next season. So yeah, I’m that guy. BTW, Pearce is probably walking - into retirement. I read an article (which I could remember where) in which he says he's strongly considering retirement. The rest of your post is fantasy. They've made it pretty clear that they won't be spending big bucks on outside help and it's questionable how much they'll be willing to spend on the guys who were already on their roster. I agree it’s fantasy, but that wasn’t the question. This outlook by ownership at this moment in the team’s composition reminds me of a marathoner at mile 23 in the last race of the season who has built himself up but sees a couple runners ahead of him and he knows just a little more fuel will get him to the front of the race, but he doesn’t want to pay for those last couple energy drinks. The goal is reachable, the body is 92% there, but despite all he has done and where he is, he just doesn’t want to make the (relatively small sacrifice) to get back to the front of the race. He’s actually going to slow up, hose this race, and hope he can get back in this shape 2-3 years from now, but with less work and investment. He can do that too (After 2020) but he’s decide to pull up now, even though he’s almost there.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 2, 2019 10:25:38 GMT -5
Here is another thread where we have people going down a rat hole on something other than the topic highlighted. Guessing thresholds of risk and profit the Henry group will accept has NOTHING do to do with the discussion of what players to keep and what Henry thinks he can afford. What we think it will take to sign Mookie and whether the sox can afford it is a total guess on our part. Some of you spout out the answer like you know what it is. I do not think even Mookie knows what he is asking for? He thinks he has a live market of 6-8 teams who will bid for his services. If a team such as the angels, just an example, offers 10 yrs $400 mil he is not going to say oh no that's too much I will sign with the sox for 8 yrs for 320. It was guessed what harper's worth was? Did he get it? The last number I saw was $400 mil. Mookie appears to be a higher value player. Henry probably thinks Mookie is not worth that much, not that he can not afford him. The example I use is the house down the street is for sale for 200k and you really like it. Several bids on the house have started to push the price up to 300k. You are still strongly considering buying, then some one comes in at 400k. I can afford the 400k , but is the house really worth 400k. That is the decision that Henry has to make. Going back to baseball. . How many long term contracts actually work out? Right now the yankees have both ellsbury and Stanton. Back on topic. Do the sox need to keep JBJ? Do they keep Holt? What do they do for 1st base? Is there anyone in the system that can fill any of these openings or do you trade for them? That's what I think this thread is about? Trade JBJ and try to get a AA/AAA pitcher with moderate upside back, or even better a higher-upside A ball pitcher. Sign Billy Hamilton on the cheap. Try to trade for Michael Lorenzen. Sink or swim with Dalbec at 1b, and push him hard to sell out some FB/HR for line-drive hard contact, emphasis on contact. I’d also suggest using Dalbec as a reliever as well. Unfortunately, Holt probably goes, unless he takes a sweetheart of a deal. Lin and Hernandez are your utility guys, with Lin also getting some CF time. Take a long look at Chatham at 2b, with Chavis the “starter.” I’d also look long and hard at trading for Jon Gray, with Chavis as the headliner (he’s the perfect type of hitter for Coors), in which case Chatham becomes the starting 2b. Don’t trade Mookie, at least not if you wanna go to the playoffs in 2020. I’d also strongly consider testing out Barnes again as a starter, which means they need at least a couple more relievers (why I’d try to acquire Lorenzen, who could always stay a RP if the SP experiment didn’t work, and why I’d try Dalbec in relief). That means probably going out and making a Brewer/Taylor type move or picking up nontender SPs who can convert to relief, or nontender relievers. This is going to be a stars-and-scrubs roster, so go volume on the scrubs. Get creative with multi-role guys. And, they’ll have to suck it up at a position like CF where Hamilton is barely replacement but at least provides plus defense. He’s a 1 to 2-WAR loss vs JBJ, but that can be made up elsewhere. The offense is good enough that they can handle one dead spot (look at 2018, where they had an atrocious 7-8-9). They need at least 3 starters for spots 5-6-7, but their 6-7 really need to be more like 5s, since Sale/Price/Eovaldi are some big questions. All good thoughts. Do you keep Lin and herandez because they are better than Holt or you trying to save money? Do you think they could trade Price and pay half of his salary and get something? Understand it opens another potential hole.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 2, 2019 10:31:32 GMT -5
I think it still comes back to , if they think they are one maybe two players away from having a serious chance at being in the series, than yes the sox go for it and spend 250 mil plus, cause they have the revenues to support the salaries. BUT, does anyone on this site think they are that close? If not then why pay money penalties? It would be like burning a pile of money. The penalty gets no more WAR, no more runs scored. No more strikeouts. If they don't think they are that close then why not trade JDM too? He'll be going on 34 in 2021. good point. How about price to the cubs for Kyle S and half of price's salary. Helps with payroll and gives the sox a potential dh with some pop at a lot lower cost. Helps with salry but creates more holes I guess.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 2, 2019 10:35:11 GMT -5
If they don't think they are that close then why not trade JDM too? He'll be going on 34 in 2021. I do. It all came down to starting pitching, and, inexplicably, not winning at home. If they want us to believe what they’re shoveling about Sale and Price ready to go in the spring, then go for it all as the offense was a force even with holes at 2nd and 1st. At least Eovaldi was back to throwing high 90s at the end of the year; now all he has to do is get his command back, which should come with a full spring, or so we’ve been told. So, OK - Sam Kennedy, John Henry and Tom Werner - if you really stand by your pronouncements that Sale and Price will be back to full strength , Eovaldi will regain his command and believe Eduardo will pitch like a 2 again, then why wouldn't you go for it? What this means is all you need is a #5 and #6 plus a bullpen arm or two. Let Chatham, Ramirez and Chavis fight over a second base platoon and use one of them as your utility guy. Either roll the dice with Dalbec at 1st (or again a platoon with him and Chavis) or buy a stopgap like Moustakis or Alonso. Shed Porcello if he won’t sign a 1 year $8M deal, and let Holt, Leon, Moreland, Pearce, and Hembree walk. If Porcello isn’t your discounted #5 then go get Odorizzi or break the bank and buy Cole to really guarantee a killer staff (and give you a nice hedge if you want to trade Price after 2020 picking up about $7-10M a year of his salary). If everyone’s as healthy as you say you win another WS and then can make decisions on Mookie and JBJ after next season. So yeah, I’m that guy. Yup can see that. But, do you really believe it? I do not. Nobody has mentioned pedy's situation yet. What do the sox do with that?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 2, 2019 10:45:23 GMT -5
BTW, Pearce is probably walking - into retirement. I read an article (which I could remember where) in which he says he's strongly considering retirement. The rest of your post is fantasy. They've made it pretty clear that they won't be spending big bucks on outside help and it's questionable how much they'll be willing to spend on the guys who were already on their roster. I agree it’s fantasy, but that wasn’t the question. This outlook by ownership at this moment in the team’s composition reminds me of a marathoner at mile 23 in the last race of the season who has built himself up but sees a couple runners ahead of him and he knows just a little more fuel will get him to the front of the race, but he doesn’t want to pay for those last couple energy drinks. The goal is reachable, the body is 92% there, but despite all he has done and where he is, he just doesn’t want to make the (relatively small sacrifice) to get back to the front of the race. He’s actually going to slow up, hose this race, and hope he can get back in this shape 2-3 years from now, but with less work and investment. He can do that too (After 2020) but he’s decide to pull up now, even though he’s almost there. It's funny but I'm not even sure anymore. I mean the "luck factor" was negative this year with the Red Sox, but not THAT negative. I mean, they should have won about 87 games given their runs scored/runs allowed ratio. They were only 3 games below it. It's not like they were a 95 win team masquerading as a 84 win team this year. They gave up far too many runs to be a 95 win team, which makes me wonder: Are the Sox close to closing the gap or are they really a good deal inferior to NY and TB at this point? I would think that it's highly contingent on the health of these three guys: Sale, Price, and Eovaldi. If all 3 are healthy and back to 2018 form, then the Sox should be back in business, right there with NY and TB. But if they really do have health issues, then where are the Red Sox? Pretty much where they were in 2019 which is 19 games behind NY and 12 games out of a playoff spot. I have no idea if Chris Sale is going to be Chris Sale again in 2020 or if it's going to be struggles followed by TJS. There's a wide range of spectrums. I'm more along the line of thinking that Price is a better bet to be healthier in 2020, but he's been having issues here and there the past few years. He certainly didn't give the Sox a lot of innings/start. And Eovaldi is anybody's guess. Maybe he's finally healthy and he's ready to take that big step forward that he looked to be possibly taking in 2018, but he went into 2019 supposedly healthy as well and it turned out very poorly. Or maybe he's just a decent starter who isn't a #2/#3 type starter even if he is healthy. It's so hard to know at this point. So you have three huge question marks in the rotation and Rick Porcello's innings need to be replace, too - for cheap, which could come via a trade that sends JBJ away to save money for all we know, meaning they'd need to find a cheap OF, preferrably a CF to keep Betts (if he stays) in RF. It's hard to say, yeah they're "This close" to bouncing back to being an elite team. Likewise, I'm not ready to say, "Tear it all down. Trade Mookie! Rebuild!!" either. They are truly at the crossroads where they can go in any direction, but we know that one way or another they really, really want to drop a lot of payroll, and to that extent, JDM is probably the trigger to what happens this offseason, as in if he opts to stay, Betts is more likely a goner, but if he opts out, which I still think he'll do, even with the QO, Betts is more likely to stay for 2020, and JBJ is more likelier to be dealt in a cost cutting move to go along with JDM's departure.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 2, 2019 10:50:52 GMT -5
I do. It all came down to starting pitching, and, inexplicably, not winning at home. If they want us to believe what they’re shoveling about Sale and Price ready to go in the spring, then go for it all as the offense was a force even with holes at 2nd and 1st. At least Eovaldi was back to throwing high 90s at the end of the year; now all he has to do is get his command back, which should come with a full spring, or so we’ve been told. So, OK - Sam Kennedy, John Henry and Tom Werner - if you really stand by your pronouncements that Sale and Price will be back to full strength , Eovaldi will regain his command and believe Eduardo will pitch like a 2 again, then why wouldn't you go for it? What this means is all you need is a #5 and #6 plus a bullpen arm or two. Let Chatham, Ramirez and Chavis fight over a second base platoon and use one of them as your utility guy. Either roll the dice with Dalbec at 1st (or again a platoon with him and Chavis) or buy a stopgap like Moustakis or Alonso. Shed Porcello if he won’t sign a 1 year $8M deal, and let Holt, Leon, Moreland, Pearce, and Hembree walk. If Porcello isn’t your discounted #5 then go get Odorizzi or break the bank and buy Cole to really guarantee a killer staff (and give you a nice hedge if you want to trade Price after 2020 picking up about $7-10M a year of his salary). If everyone’s as healthy as you say you win another WS and then can make decisions on Mookie and JBJ after next season. So yeah, I’m that guy. Yup can see that. But, do you really believe it? I do not. Nobody has mentioned pedy's situation yet. What do the sox do with that? The Sox can't do anything about Pedroia. They're on the hook unless he decides to retire. Hate to say this but I'm not convinced that Hernandez or Lin is a better player than Holt. I think Lin's hit tool is questionable and Hernandez has a better hit tool but no plate discipline. I think Holt is a better offensive player. If you want to say that Holt is not worth the extra $, that's a different argument, but it doesn't really improve the team. I mean, I'm fine with Holt playing a lot of 2b in 2020 with the Sox in conjunction with Chavis playing some 2b there with the RH ABs. I'm not as fine with Lin or Hernandez getting 300 plus ABs getting the bulk of time at 2b. Sure you'll spend less money, but you'll see a lot lower OBP. Given where they are with their budget that's possible. I do wonder if the Sox can try to bring in Scooter Gennett on a bargain deal and see if he can bounce back, but if they're looking for minimum wage solutions then yeah, either Hernandez or Lin is the way they could go. And if that's the case, it really makes me wish Dombrowski hadn't dealt that Mexican League 2b for Colten Brewer.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 2, 2019 12:25:42 GMT -5
Let's keep this discussion (a) based in reality, and (b) away from broader economic debate. Both of those topics can go in another thread. Thanks!
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 2, 2019 12:39:40 GMT -5
I have to ask why you think we can't say he has the ability? The numbers are rather clear and a big point in dragging them out is how revenue is exploding, while payrolls for the top teams aren't. Example on the Celtics was Smart he got more than I thought he was worth. Yet it wasn't horrible because with revenues increases in Basketball each year his percentage of the salary cap goes down a good amount. Then again the spending requirements in Basketball are set off of revenue, the luxury tax is litterally just some made up numbers designed to keep salaries down by the top teams. It doesn't increase at the rate revenue does which makes zero sense, only Baseball does anything like this. Certain posters act like 300 million is crazy, but before these new made up out of thin air luxury tax limits we had two teams pushing 300 million years ago in the Yankees and Dodgers. I have zero issue is Henry doesn't want to give out a ten year deal with the risks those have. Yet we have the numbers and can certainly tell what the Red Sox can afford in payroll going forward. I have no idea what the sentence above means. I did not say anything about Mookie's ability. As far as what the sox can afford to pay? One, they apparently to not want to pay the penalties! Two, they have a value for every player on the roster and they are concerned that Mookie's value number and their value number do not match. They have to go by the rules that exist NOW. Not years ago. I was referring to our owner Henry, not Betts. No one is debating what our owner wants to do. We are talking about it because our owner said they had to reset so they can spend like they did in 2018 and that is BS! In 2018 paying those penalties we had the 4th highest operating income in Baseball. Take away Ben's Castillo mistake and we would have tied the Dodgers for the best in Baseball while having a higher payroll and paying the tax. The rules that exist now can easily have them spend just under 238 million and not have our pick moved back like last year. Even at that level we would be below average compared to other clubs just like this year when looking at the percentage of revenue spent on payroll. I have zero issues if our owner doesn't want to pay Betts. I have issues with lies and acting like he can't. The facts are the Red Sox can easily spend 238 million next year and still be one of the most profitable teams in Baseball. Yet your okay with us dropping our payroll to revenue ratio to around 35%? That's like Marlins type level! I'd fully support it if Henry went crazy like the Dodgers did in 2013 to 2015 losing 166 million and having a payroll percentage of 78% of revenue in 2015. They needed to payoff more than 400 million in team debt that racked up in three years after going all in. Henry doesn't do that, our biggest year was 2018 and he made tons of money. The Dodgers paid more in luxury tax in 2015, than we have in 20 years. The owners are using the new rules as an excuse not to spend, nothing is stopping them. Every other sports see payroll rise as revenue does. The majority of Baseball teams act that way. Heck I wouldn't even really had an issue if our owner didn't outright lie to the fans saying we had to do it. No he's doing it because fans like you just believe him and don't actually look at the numbers.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 2, 2019 20:05:46 GMT -5
Trade JBJ and try to get a AA/AAA pitcher with moderate upside back, or even better a higher-upside A ball pitcher. Sign Billy Hamilton on the cheap. Try to trade for Michael Lorenzen. Sink or swim with Dalbec at 1b, and push him hard to sell out some FB/HR for line-drive hard contact, emphasis on contact. I’d also suggest using Dalbec as a reliever as well. Unfortunately, Holt probably goes, unless he takes a sweetheart of a deal. Lin and Hernandez are your utility guys, with Lin also getting some CF time. Take a long look at Chatham at 2b, with Chavis the “starter.” I’d also look long and hard at trading for Jon Gray, with Chavis as the headliner (he’s the perfect type of hitter for Coors), in which case Chatham becomes the starting 2b. Don’t trade Mookie, at least not if you wanna go to the playoffs in 2020. I’d also strongly consider testing out Barnes again as a starter, which means they need at least a couple more relievers (why I’d try to acquire Lorenzen, who could always stay a RP if the SP experiment didn’t work, and why I’d try Dalbec in relief). That means probably going out and making a Brewer/Taylor type move or picking up nontender SPs who can convert to relief, or nontender relievers. This is going to be a stars-and-scrubs roster, so go volume on the scrubs. Get creative with multi-role guys. And, they’ll have to suck it up at a position like CF where Hamilton is barely replacement but at least provides plus defense. He’s a 1 to 2-WAR loss vs JBJ, but that can be made up elsewhere. The offense is good enough that they can handle one dead spot (look at 2018, where they had an atrocious 7-8-9). They need at least 3 starters for spots 5-6-7, but their 6-7 really need to be more like 5s, since Sale/Price/Eovaldi are some big questions. All good thoughts. Do you keep Lin and herandez because they are better than Holt or you trying to save money? Do you think they could trade Price and pay half of his salary and get something? Understand it opens another potential hole. Just the $; I’d love to keep Holt in a perfect world, but my guess is he gets 2/$10-12M from somebody, possibly with a chance to start at 2b. The Sox really can’t afford those sorts of deals right now. I think Lin is a great option, I think he’ll hit sufficiently to have value, and his defense is a big plus, utility-wise. I like Hernandez’s pop, and while he’s stretched at SS and doesn’t walk enough, he’s a pretty good hitter, especially given the time off and how he bounced back. I think he’s got more there...and I think he could be a viable starter at 2b if it comes down to it, and he’d be a great platoon partner with Chavis (or sufficient without him if he gets moved). Price is a big question for me. I still hold out hope that he can undergo a Greinke-Verlander style late-career revival, especially refining his mix. But he’s not been healthy enough to warrant real interest by other teams, even at half the salary. I’m not confident he’d get a 3/$45M deal on the open market. But, with a bounce back year, yes, I think they absolutely could and should move him. It’s also why I advocate collecting SP options, especially pillow deals or post-hype guys. They need to be able to move what they have without creating a roster disaster. I do think that if they had sufficient MLB options, Mata looks ready, etc, and Price is pitching well , they could move him at the deadline a la Greinke, and get something back, yes. It becomes more complicated if they’re in contention, hence my emphasis on volume. They need depth for purposes of their health questions, but also for trade options. Best-case is Price comes out on fire but the team’s kinda sputtering, they maximize their return/minimize their $ included, and the team gets hot in the second half. Nothing personal, and I was onboard at the time, but that deal has turned out to be a bad (not awful, tho) one. One guy I’d LOVE to see them lure back with a chance to start? Pomeranz. He’s obviously capable of relieving, and he’s worth a shot trying in the rotation again...could’ve just been lingering injury issues. Obviously depends on the deal, but it’s worth exploring. I doubt the $ work, but I’d have liked seeing Wheeler on the Sox. And while I’m quite sure it won’t happen, I think they ought to inquire about Woodruff. Problem the Sox have is that they’re pinched on $ and minor league talent, and their MLB roster largely underperformed, which means the only desirable MLB guys like Devers are irreplaceable, or horrible sell-lows like Beni. That’s why i advocate signing Billy Hamilton...he had the same WAR last year as JBJ. He got $1M last year. JBJ has enough historical cache that I think they could deal him and get *something* back. That saves the team $9M and nets a minor prospect. Hamilton’s value can’t get any lower...but it CAN go up. Maybe the Sox’s hitting approach runs off and he becomes a 90 wRC+ guy...with baserunning and defense that’s a 2-win player. I think they are going to have to take some real risks like that. But on a 1-2-yr deal for Hamilton (who’d be a great 4th/5th OF anyway), there’s minimal downside at, say, $1-2M a year. That, Dalbec to 1b, Chavis to 2b with Marco (Chavis with some LF too...or headlining a Gray deal, please), those moves saving $5-10M versus Moreland, Pearce, Nunez, JBJ...that’s how they get under the tax. And it preserves future flexibility.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 2, 2019 20:09:45 GMT -5
I have no idea what the sentence above means. I did not say anything about Mookie's ability. As far as what the sox can afford to pay? One, they apparently to not want to pay the penalties! Two, they have a value for every player on the roster and they are concerned that Mookie's value number and their value number do not match. They have to go by the rules that exist NOW. Not years ago. I was referring to our owner Henry, not Betts. No one is debating what our owner wants to do. We are talking about it because our owner said they had to reset so they can spend like they did in 2018 and that is BS! In 2018 paying those penalties we had the 4th highest operating income in Baseball. Take away Ben's Castillo mistake and we would have tied the Dodgers for the best in Baseball while having a higher payroll and paying the tax. The rules that exist now can easily have them spend just under 238 million and not have our pick moved back like last year. Even at that level we would be below average compared to other clubs just like this year when looking at the percentage of revenue spent on payroll. I have zero issues if our owner doesn't want to pay Betts. I have issues with lies and acting like he can't. The facts are the Red Sox can easily spend 238 million next year and still be one of the most profitable teams in Baseball. Yet your okay with us dropping our payroll to revenue ratio to around 35%? That's like Marlins type level! I'd fully support it if Henry went crazy like the Dodgers did in 2013 to 2015 losing 166 million and having a payroll percentage of 78% of revenue in 2015. They needed to payoff more than 400 million in team debt that racked up in three years after going all in. Henry doesn't do that, our biggest year was 2018 and he made tons of money. The Dodgers paid more in luxury tax in 2015, than we have in 20 years. The owners are using the new rules as an excuse not to spend, nothing is stopping them. Every other sports see payroll rise as revenue does. The majority of Baseball teams act that way. Heck I wouldn't even really had an issue if our owner didn't outright lie to the fans saying we had to do it. No he's doing it because fans like you just believe him and don't actually look at the numbers. I would ask what is your job in real life. My job before I retired was chief financial officer for a division of a fortune 200 company and was responsible for $250 mil plus in sales. Net income in the 25% range. I understand your revenue ratio's. So, I know about numbers. What you do not seem to get is that he CAN spend more money on salaries. BUT, it is HIS company not yours. He does not seem to want to spend more money. Why? maybe its the penalties he is against. Maybe its the drain on potential draft choices to build the depth of the organization. Maybe he does not like the risk factor of 10 year contracts. I do not know. does not matter it is still his company. I believe he has money he could spend but chooses not to. I can not be OKay with dropping the sox payroll numbers, because I have no say in the matter. I do not think he is telling lies. Using HIS parameters he only wants to spend x amount of money. What the dodgers and the yankees of the past chose to spend has different people and different variables does not apply. Henry's business plan moving forward is to cut payroll now so he can spend later. Where his logic came from I have no idea. I can guess several ideas like selling the team in the near future or using the value of the team as leverage to buy something else. MAYBE, his ego is bothering him that a team like the A's has half the payroll and is in the payoffs and he is not. If you do not like the way Henry is running HIS team and you think he is lying to us then you may want think about rooting for a different team.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 2, 2019 20:18:21 GMT -5
All good thoughts. Do you keep Lin and herandez because they are better than Holt or you trying to save money? Do you think they could trade Price and pay half of his salary and get something? Understand it opens another potential hole. Just the $; I’d love to keep Holt in a perfect world, but my guess is he gets 2/$10-12M from somebody, possibly with a chance to start at 2b. The Sox really can’t afford those sorts of deals right now. I think Lin is a great option, I think he’ll hit sufficiently to have value, and his defense is a big plus, utility-wise. I like Hernandez’s pop, and while he’s stretched at SS and doesn’t walk enough, he’s a pretty good hitter, especially given the time off and how he bounced back. I think he’s got more there...and I think he could be a viable starter at 2b if it comes down to it, and he’d be a great platoon partner with Chavis (or sufficient without him if he gets moved). Price is a big question for me. I still hold out hope that he can undergo a Greinke-Verlander style late-career revival, especially refining his mix. But he’s not been healthy enough to warrant real interest by other teams, even at half the salary. I’m not confident he’d get a 3/$45M deal on the open market. But, with a bounce back year, yes, I think they absolutely could and should move him. It’s also why I advocate collecting SP options, especially pillow deals or post-hype guys. They need to be able to move what they have without creating a roster disaster. I do think that if they had sufficient MLB options, Mata looks ready, etc, and Price is pitching well , they could move him at the deadline a la Greinke, and get something back, yes. It becomes more complicated if they’re in contention, hence my emphasis on volume. They need depth for purposes of their health questions, but also for trade options. Best-case is Price comes out on fire but the team’s kinda sputtering, they maximize their return/minimize their $ included, and the team gets hot in the second half. Nothing personal, and I was onboard at the time, but that deal has turned out to be a bad (not awful, tho) one. One guy I’d LOVE to see them lure back with a chance to start? Pomeranz. He’s obviously capable of relieving, and he’s worth a shot trying in the rotation again...could’ve just been lingering injury issues. Obviously depends on the deal, but it’s worth exploring. I doubt the $ work, but I’d have liked seeing Wheeler on the Sox. And while I’m quite sure it won’t happen, I think they ought to inquire about Woodruff. Problem the Sox have is that they’re pinched on $ and minor league talent, and their MLB roster largely underperformed, which means the only desirable MLB guys like Devers are irreplaceable, or horrible sell-lows like Beni. That’s why i advocate signing Billy Hamilton...he had the same WAR last year as JBJ. He got $1M last year. JBJ has enough historical cache that I think they could deal him and get *something* back. That saves the team $9M and nets a minor prospect. Hamilton’s value can’t get any lower...but it CAN go up. Maybe the Sox’s hitting approach runs off and he becomes a 90 wRC+ guy...with baserunning and defense that’s a 2-win player. I think they are going to have to take some real risks like that. But on a 1-2-yr deal for Hamilton (who’d be a great 4th/5th OF anyway), there’s minimal downside at, say, $1-2M a year. That, Dalbec to 1b, Chavis to 2b with Marco (Chavis with some LF too...or headlining a Gray deal, please), those moves saving $5-10M versus Moreland, Pearce, Nunez, JBJ...that’s how they get under the tax. And it preserves future flexibility. Have a weak spot for Holt but like what you are saying. Agree on price. Was not hot on the deal to begin with. But, understood why they did it. Drew P not hot on at all. But, an interesting option. If Mookie goes this winter do you still trade JBJ? Getting Gray looks good to me. If it takes Chavis and Dalbec okay.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 3, 2019 0:40:49 GMT -5
Just the $; I’d love to keep Holt in a perfect world, but my guess is he gets 2/$10-12M from somebody, possibly with a chance to start at 2b. The Sox really can’t afford those sorts of deals right now. I think Lin is a great option, I think he’ll hit sufficiently to have value, and his defense is a big plus, utility-wise. I like Hernandez’s pop, and while he’s stretched at SS and doesn’t walk enough, he’s a pretty good hitter, especially given the time off and how he bounced back. I think he’s got more there...and I think he could be a viable starter at 2b if it comes down to it, and he’d be a great platoon partner with Chavis (or sufficient without him if he gets moved). Price is a big question for me. I still hold out hope that he can undergo a Greinke-Verlander style late-career revival, especially refining his mix. But he’s not been healthy enough to warrant real interest by other teams, even at half the salary. I’m not confident he’d get a 3/$45M deal on the open market. But, with a bounce back year, yes, I think they absolutely could and should move him. It’s also why I advocate collecting SP options, especially pillow deals or post-hype guys. They need to be able to move what they have without creating a roster disaster. I do think that if they had sufficient MLB options, Mata looks ready, etc, and Price is pitching well , they could move him at the deadline a la Greinke, and get something back, yes. It becomes more complicated if they’re in contention, hence my emphasis on volume. They need depth for purposes of their health questions, but also for trade options. Best-case is Price comes out on fire but the team’s kinda sputtering, they maximize their return/minimize their $ included, and the team gets hot in the second half. Nothing personal, and I was onboard at the time, but that deal has turned out to be a bad (not awful, tho) one. One guy I’d LOVE to see them lure back with a chance to start? Pomeranz. He’s obviously capable of relieving, and he’s worth a shot trying in the rotation again...could’ve just been lingering injury issues. Obviously depends on the deal, but it’s worth exploring. I doubt the $ work, but I’d have liked seeing Wheeler on the Sox. And while I’m quite sure it won’t happen, I think they ought to inquire about Woodruff. Problem the Sox have is that they’re pinched on $ and minor league talent, and their MLB roster largely underperformed, which means the only desirable MLB guys like Devers are irreplaceable, or horrible sell-lows like Beni. That’s why i advocate signing Billy Hamilton...he had the same WAR last year as JBJ. He got $1M last year. JBJ has enough historical cache that I think they could deal him and get *something* back. That saves the team $9M and nets a minor prospect. Hamilton’s value can’t get any lower...but it CAN go up. Maybe the Sox’s hitting approach runs off and he becomes a 90 wRC+ guy...with baserunning and defense that’s a 2-win player. I think they are going to have to take some real risks like that. But on a 1-2-yr deal for Hamilton (who’d be a great 4th/5th OF anyway), there’s minimal downside at, say, $1-2M a year. That, Dalbec to 1b, Chavis to 2b with Marco (Chavis with some LF too...or headlining a Gray deal, please), those moves saving $5-10M versus Moreland, Pearce, Nunez, JBJ...that’s how they get under the tax. And it preserves future flexibility. Have a weak spot for Holt but like what you are saying. Agree on price. Was not hot on the deal to begin with. But, understood why they did it. Drew P not hot on at all. But, an interesting option. If Mookie goes this winter do you still trade JBJ? Getting Gray looks good to me. If it takes Chavis and Dalbec okay. Actually, Sonny Gray wouldn’t be bad, either lol. I wouldn’t move Mookie regardless. I think they should “try” in 2020, and moving Mookie pretty much obliterates any playoff hopes. The only way I’d entertain it would be a stupid offer (say, Verdugo+May from LA), and the likelihood of that is vanishingly low. In that case I’d also push hard to bring him back, fwiw. Moving JBJ is an attempt to get under the lux tax line; if Mookie is gone there’s no need, but tbh in that case there’s no playoffs so I’d trade JBJ anyway, because they’re not extending him, and they’re not QO’ing him, so they should get something back and save $8M+ with Hamilton. I’d prefer not to move Dalbec under most circumstances, because he’s a low-cost 1b option with both offensive and defensive upside, and I’d definitely get him on the mound, too. They could move Chavis or Dalbec, but both creates a 1b gap, and I’d prefer not to pay Moreland $7M again (though he was solid this year). I think 2020 is kinda sink or swim with who they have in large part (barring shoring up the rotation), and who they have, at least at 1b and 2b, and in the rotation, are lots of question marks and some largely inexperienced young guys who the team needs to step up. Somehow they need to cobble together $20M in savings, and it’s doable, but risky.
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Post by ryan24 on Oct 3, 2019 5:38:28 GMT -5
Have a weak spot for Holt but like what you are saying. Agree on price. Was not hot on the deal to begin with. But, understood why they did it. Drew P not hot on at all. But, an interesting option. If Mookie goes this winter do you still trade JBJ? Getting Gray looks good to me. If it takes Chavis and Dalbec okay. Actually, Sonny Gray wouldn’t be bad, either lol. I wouldn’t move Mookie regardless. I think they should “try” in 2020, and moving Mookie pretty much obliterates any playoff hopes. The only way I’d entertain it would be a stupid offer (say, Verdugo+May from LA), and the likelihood of that is vanishingly low. In that case I’d also push hard to bring him back, fwiw. Moving JBJ is an attempt to get under the lux tax line; if Mookie is gone there’s no need, but tbh in that case there’s no playoffs so I’d trade JBJ anyway, because they’re not extending him, and they’re not QO’ing him, so they should get something back and save $8M+ with Hamilton. I’d prefer not to move Dalbec under most circumstances, because he’s a low-cost 1b option with both offensive and defensive upside, and I’d definitely get him on the mound, too. They could move Chavis or Dalbec, but both creates a 1b gap, and I’d prefer not to pay Moreland $7M again (though he was solid this year). I think 2020 is kinda sink or swim with who they have in large part (barring shoring up the rotation), and who they have, at least at 1b and 2b, and in the rotation, are lots of question marks and some largely inexperienced young guys who the team needs to step up. Somehow they need to cobble together $20M in savings, and it’s doable, but risky. Come July the team is going nowhere. Do you dump Mookie and JBJ? Kind of what the yanks did with relief pitchers chapman and miller? Do you think that Dalbec and Chavis are capable enough defensively at 1st?Understand the risk with Mookie. Tough choice. I think that if the sox can not identify at least a range of money for Mookie then I think they trade him. Do they have a decent shot at signing him. I am sure Henry is looking at impact on ticket sales with his final decision. It may not matter with Mookie if JDM opts out.
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Post by soxaddict on Oct 3, 2019 9:16:16 GMT -5
David Price has to go. And as much as I would hate to see Mookie go, but my gut tells me he won't be here past 2020 anyway. So what about Price and Mookie to the Dodgers for A.J.Pollock and Gavin Lux?
If JD stays for three more years great. If not, that's ok too. Sign Corey Dickerson to DH and play LF.
I'd be ok with moving Chavis to Colorado in a Jon Gray Deal. Give Dalbec a shot to play 1B and bring back Moreland for another year.
Make a big push for Gerrit Cole or Zack Wheeler. I'd also like to see Darwinzon Hernandez moved to the rotation.
Make a closer out of Eovaldi. But we've still got to add some real bullpen pieces this off-season. I'd love to see Will Harris here.
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Post by jdb on Oct 3, 2019 9:29:27 GMT -5
If Price were to get traded I think a bad contract is coming back, we’re sending prospects with him or eating a good bit of his contract. I don’t know if paying a team 10M a year to have Price pitch for them and then having to find another starter is the answer or not. The Cards have some not to great contracts in Carpenter and Fowler who could provide something to us while being over paid. Maybe San Diego wants to get rid of Wil Myers? His AAV is only 14M a year while his salary bumps to $22.5M for 3 years. That would help us out a ton with the tax and maybe switching parks would give him a bump in production while saving $17M on the AAV.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 3, 2019 11:34:56 GMT -5
I was referring to our owner Henry, not Betts. No one is debating what our owner wants to do. We are talking about it because our owner said they had to reset so they can spend like they did in 2018 and that is BS! In 2018 paying those penalties we had the 4th highest operating income in Baseball. Take away Ben's Castillo mistake and we would have tied the Dodgers for the best in Baseball while having a higher payroll and paying the tax. The rules that exist now can easily have them spend just under 238 million and not have our pick moved back like last year. Even at that level we would be below average compared to other clubs just like this year when looking at the percentage of revenue spent on payroll. I have zero issues if our owner doesn't want to pay Betts. I have issues with lies and acting like he can't. The facts are the Red Sox can easily spend 238 million next year and still be one of the most profitable teams in Baseball. Yet your okay with us dropping our payroll to revenue ratio to around 35%? That's like Marlins type level! I'd fully support it if Henry went crazy like the Dodgers did in 2013 to 2015 losing 166 million and having a payroll percentage of 78% of revenue in 2015. They needed to payoff more than 400 million in team debt that racked up in three years after going all in. Henry doesn't do that, our biggest year was 2018 and he made tons of money. The Dodgers paid more in luxury tax in 2015, than we have in 20 years. The owners are using the new rules as an excuse not to spend, nothing is stopping them. Every other sports see payroll rise as revenue does. The majority of Baseball teams act that way. Heck I wouldn't even really had an issue if our owner didn't outright lie to the fans saying we had to do it. No he's doing it because fans like you just believe him and don't actually look at the numbers. I would ask what is your job in real life. My job before I retired was chief financial officer for a division of a fortune 200 company and was responsible for $250 mil plus in sales. Net income in the 25% range. I understand your revenue ratio's. So, I know about numbers. What you do not seem to get is that he CAN spend more money on salaries. BUT, it is HIS company not yours. He does not seem to want to spend more money. Why? maybe its the penalties he is against. Maybe its the drain on potential draft choices to build the depth of the organization. Maybe he does not like the risk factor of 10 year contracts. I do not know. does not matter it is still his company. I believe he has money he could spend but chooses not to. I can not be OKay with dropping the sox payroll numbers, because I have no say in the matter. I do not think he is telling lies. Using HIS parameters he only wants to spend x amount of money. What the dodgers and the yankees of the past chose to spend has different people and different variables does not apply. Henry's business plan moving forward is to cut payroll now so he can spend later. Where his logic came from I have no idea. I can guess several ideas like selling the team in the near future or using the value of the team as leverage to buy something else. MAYBE, his ego is bothering him that a team like the A's has half the payroll and is in the payoffs and he is not. If you do not like the way Henry is running HIS team and you think he is lying to us then you may want think about rooting for a different team. Really? I've spent my entire career in Banking. Longest period as a loss mitigation specialist overseeing billions in residential loans for a publicly traded Bank. More recently moved up to risk management overseeing both residential and commercial loan loss mitigation specialists. Not that your or my experience means anything in this debate. Sports is a business you can't compare to other businesses. The workers have leverage in a way almost no other workers do, it's why they get such a high percentage. For 15 straight years Baseball players have got between high 40's and low 50's percentage of Baseball revenue. Last year was the first time in those 15 years when salaries went down and revenue exploded. It went down by 188 million with record revenues. Already tons of articles saying how that will be exhibit A in the next CBA and may cause a strike. So Henry and the other owners can't long-term do or spend whatever they want. They haven't had a need for a salary floor in Baseball and frankly it would be crazy hard. Yet either the owners will spend or the new CBA will make them spend. This is where Sports are different, you can't just cut wages and there is nothing the workers can do. Sports have the strongest unions in the Country. Henry can want to become the A's, but it can't happen. In the sports economy, athletes get close to 50% in all major sports. You litterally can't have that happen if all the top revenue teams treat the luxury tax as a salary cap. It was never designed for that, it was designed to increase tax payments, not almost make them disappear. Even without looking at the huge issue it is for the whole sport. Why is it an issue to judge our owner and team on spending? It's what die-hard fans do we question every move. So are you not going to debate what moves they should make or the moves they do make? The timing of this after the moves they made is horrible and certainly something we should question. For decades everyone picks on the Marlins for not spending, we now have a bunch of high revenue teams acting like the Marlins! Yet we shouldn't be talking about it? You can certainly have your opinion, but it's a fact he's telling lies. They have the ability to spend without resetting, that is a very clear fact. We have the numbers. He can also spend 40 million more than he's planning on spending with no effect on draft picks. Our owner can do a bridge year, he can trade Betts or not resign Martinez. Those are all choices he can make. Yet the narrative that he has to make tough moves like that is BS and that is how he is framing this. Yet he won't tell us the truth because the last time Theo used the word bridge year the fans and media revolted. So we now get this crap. Henry acting like he has no choices, when that's only true because of the deals he signed off on and the budget he set.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 3, 2019 12:15:55 GMT -5
All good thoughts. Do you keep Lin and herandez because they are better than Holt or you trying to save money? Do you think they could trade Price and pay half of his salary and get something? Understand it opens another potential hole. Just the $; I’d love to keep Holt in a perfect world, but my guess is he gets 2/$10-12M from somebody, possibly with a chance to start at 2b. The Sox really can’t afford those sorts of deals right now. I think Lin is a great option, I think he’ll hit sufficiently to have value, and his defense is a big plus, utility-wise. I like Hernandez’s pop, and while he’s stretched at SS and doesn’t walk enough, he’s a pretty good hitter, especially given the time off and how he bounced back. I think he’s got more there...and I think he could be a viable starter at 2b if it comes down to it, and he’d be a great platoon partner with Chavis (or sufficient without him if he gets moved). Price is a big question for me. I still hold out hope that he can undergo a Greinke-Verlander style late-career revival, especially refining his mix. But he’s not been healthy enough to warrant real interest by other teams, even at half the salary. I’m not confident he’d get a 3/$45M deal on the open market. But, with a bounce back year, yes, I think they absolutely could and should move him. It’s also why I advocate collecting SP options, especially pillow deals or post-hype guys. They need to be able to move what they have without creating a roster disaster. I do think that if they had sufficient MLB options, Mata looks ready, etc, and Price is pitching well , they could move him at the deadline a la Greinke, and get something back, yes. It becomes more complicated if they’re in contention, hence my emphasis on volume. They need depth for purposes of their health questions, but also for trade options. B est-case is Price comes out on fire but the team’s kinda sputtering, they maximize their return/minimize their $ included, and the team gets hot in the second half. Nothing personal, and I was onboard at the time, but that deal has turned out to be a bad (not awful, tho) one. One guy I’d LOVE to see them lure back with a chance to start? Pomeranz. He’s obviously capable of relieving, and he’s worth a shot trying in the rotation again...could’ve just been lingering injury issues. Obviously depends on the deal, but it’s worth exploring. I doubt the $ work, but I’d have liked seeing Wheeler on the Sox. And while I’m quite sure it won’t happen, I think they ought to inquire about Woodruff. Problem the Sox have is that they’re pinched on $ and minor league talent, and their MLB roster largely underperformed, which means the only desirable MLB guys like Devers are irreplaceable, or horrible sell-lows like Beni. That’s why i advocate signing Billy Hamilton...he had the same WAR last year as JBJ. He got $1M last year. JBJ has enough historical cache that I think they could deal him and get *something* back. That saves the team $9M and nets a minor prospect. Hamilton’s value can’t get any lower...but it CAN go up. Maybe the Sox’s hitting approach runs off and he becomes a 90 wRC+ guy...with baserunning and defense that’s a 2-win player. I think they are going to have to take some real risks like that. But on a 1-2-yr deal for Hamilton (who’d be a great 4th/5th OF anyway), there’s minimal downside at, say, $1-2M a year. That, Dalbec to 1b, Chavis to 2b with Marco (Chavis with some LF too...or headlining a Gray deal, please), those moves saving $5-10M versus Moreland, Pearce, Nunez, JBJ...that’s how they get under the tax. And it preserves future flexibility. 1) If they want Price to have a career resurgence like Verlander and Grienke the go hire Houston's pitching whisperer Strom and two of his player development guys and make Strom a VP. They are finding efficiencies in pitching like no other team right now. 2) No, if he comes out on fire, best case is so does Sale and ERod and they win the division. Period. 3) I think give what Billy Hamilton is, you may be able to bring Durran right up and get virtually the same thing at a discount. I seriously believe Durran could bunt and slap hit his way to .255/.320 and play above average D.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 3, 2019 12:32:11 GMT -5
Saw this blurb regarding an article:
SNY's Matthew Cerrone recently spoke to a source that outlined what type of package it would take to land Betts.
To get Betts for just one season, I'm told Boston will need to replace him in the lineup, add an affordable, team-controlled, mid-rotation starter and bring in at least two top-100 prospects.
Cerrone would also say that teams like the Padres, Braves, Cardinals, Astros, Mets, Reds, and Brewers could target Betts. The Dodgers, and a package headlined by Joc Pederson and Kenta Maeda, were also mentioned.
Not sure how reliable his source is, but if he's correct, that gives an idea of what the Red Sox think a year of Mookie Betts' services would be on that trade market. The two top-100 prospects would be huge, but you're talking the Michael Chavis level talent most likely.
My gut feeling is that JDM will opt out, even with the QO attached to him, and the Sox will hang onto Mookie for 2020 and would be more likely to deal JBJ to save $.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 3, 2019 12:39:38 GMT -5
I also read the suggestion of 1 year of Mookie for 2 years of Thor. Not really thrilled with that one.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 3, 2019 13:45:21 GMT -5
1) If they want Price to have a career resurgence like Verlander and Grienke the go hire Houston's pitching whisperer Strom and two of his player development guys and make Strom a VP. They are finding efficiencies in pitching like no other team right now. This narrative is getting out of hand. Grienke was exactly the same guy in Arizona. Verlander's resurgence is a bit overblown as well and has as much to do with his once-in-a-generation UCL as anything. Not saying they aren't good at building a pitching staff, but Houston struggled to find starters internally this year. McHugh flamed out as a starter, Valdéz didn't take any steps forward, James got hurt, Corbin Martin was bad and got hurt, Whitley wasn't called up, and more. The Grienke trade was born out of their failure to come up with another guy internally.
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Post by Guidas on Oct 3, 2019 13:54:16 GMT -5
1) If they want Price to have a career resurgence like Verlander and Grienke the go hire Houston's pitching whisperer Strom and two of his player development guys and make Strom a VP. They are finding efficiencies in pitching like no other team right now. This narrative is getting out of hand. Grienke was exactly the same guy in Arizona. Verlander's resurgence is a bit overblown as well and has as much to do with his once-in-a-generation UCL as anything. Not saying they aren't good at building a pitching staff, but Houston struggled to find starters internally this year. McHugh flamed out as a starter, Valdéz didn't take any steps forward, James got hurt, Corbin Martin was bad and got hurt, Whitley wasn't called up, and more. The Grienke trade was born out of their failure to come up with another guy internally. Agreed, and yet with all those flame-outs they-still won 107. I’m more interested in their acquisitions/improvements of Morton. Keuchel, and Pressley , as well as Verlander and Cole’s tweaks which had both of them going from Very Good to Cy Young contenders, Verlander doing so in a smaller park for multiple years when industrywide it seemed people thought he was still good to very good, but not this.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Oct 3, 2019 14:03:08 GMT -5
1) If they want Price to have a career resurgence like Verlander and Grienke the go hire Houston's pitching whisperer Strom and two of his player development guys and make Strom a VP. They are finding efficiencies in pitching like no other team right now. This narrative is getting out of hand. Grienke was exactly the same guy in Arizona. Verlander's resurgence is a bit overblown as well and has as much to do with his once-in-a-generation UCL as anything. Not saying they aren't good at building a pitching staff, but Houston struggled to find starters internally this year. McHugh flamed out as a starter, Valdéz didn't take any steps forward, James got hurt, Corbin Martin was bad and got hurt, Whitley wasn't called up, and more. The Grienke trade was born out of their failure to come up with another guy internally. If the Red Sox blow it up this off-season, trading Price and cash to the Astros to replace Cole might be an option.
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